MDE/FP+ Poll Results

[JimmyV]

As any group’s enrollment (in this case, the anit-FP+ crew) declines they become louder and more vocal.

There is no point in convincing the anit-FP+ crowd that it’s actually a workable system with benefits.

The Pro-FP+ crowd has essentially given up the argument.

FP+ is here to stay, get on board or get passed by.


It’s over. Deal with it.

Kind of a "Borg" approach to this, no? "Resistance is futile". When a majority surfaces, the minority should just shut up, give up, and "deal with it".

 

[DisneyKidds]

"A sliver of the population" way to down play the experiences of people who just don't agree with you.

Not to get in the way of your back and forth here, and I'm going more for 'perspective' than being 'dismissive'.......but let me ask you (all) a straight up question.

Other than people you 'know' from the DIS, how many people do you personally know that have been to WDW, and what percentage of those people had any clue what the DIS or a podcast was? Personally, I know probably 100 people that have been, 0% of which has a clue about the DIS.

What's the DIS membership? Add 1,300 FB respondents. What do you get, 1% of the 10 mil people who visit WDW annually? And that is a much more highly WDW educated 1% that actually knows their FP+ from their FP- than the other 9.9 million.

I would never take the leap to say the educated 1% here are representative to the 99% who aren't invested enough to find places like this. You really want to take that leap?

So the 'sliver' comment may not be inaccurate, not that that means that anyone should discount any opinion expressed here. However, it's more likely than not that there are millions out there who hit WDW, and their blower blows, and their table tables, and their FP+ reservations work, and some things make them happy and some things don't, and at the end of the day the populous is satisfied with their overall WDW product.

Really, is there anyone out there that honestly believes WDW won't be humming along in 10 year.....20......30......because of MM+?

In the mean time it's fun for us to debate the minutiae!

 

[mom2rtk]

Really, is there anyone out there that honestly believes WDW won't be humming along in 10 year.....20......30......because of MM+?

Of course not. Because MM+/FP+ will not look the same in 10, 20 or 30 years. They will adjust when it becomes apparent they have to.

 

[DisneyKidds]

The one thing TWDC should take note of is the opinions of the educated 1%, and not rely on the 'masses' being reasonably satisfied enough the the attendance numbers continue to roll. If they can make this educated, opinionated crew happy they would have a product that would blow the 'masses' away.

Agreed, TWDC seems to have bailed some time ago on blowing people away....

 

[DisneyKidds]

Of course not. Because MM+/FP+ will not look the same in 10, 20 or 30 years. They will adjust when it becomes apparent they have to.

Agreed! After $1+ billion it ain't going anywhere, and educated people should point out the faults, and TWDC will make changes to the system, many of which will address the 1%'s gripes.

We have the distinct displeasure of being ahead of the times!

 

[JimmyV]

We have the distinct displeasure of being ahead of the times!

Read as...Guinea Pigs. "I, for one, welcome our new FP+ overlords!"

Again, the focus of this is not whether FP+ is here to stay. Of course it is. The poll does not ask people to suggest specific changes. It was intended as a snapshot taken 18 months or so after initial testing and roll out. And the comment that got this all started was that the vast majority like FP+ but are being drowned out on the Boards by the 10% who reside in Bitter Town. And it seems clear to almost everyone who has considered this that the poll results don't really tell a 90%-10% story, if they tell any story at all.

 

[Sharpdisney]

This has been an interesting read, interesting poll. Everyone has some good points, however I didn't see this one made yet:

Lake - I cannot personally thank you enough for getting rid of the Caveman Avatar. For as much as you post I could hardly tolerate that guy staring at me each time I read something!

It's so pleasant now, I might even agree with you more often!

(I mean all of that in fun, honestly. But really, I'm happy if the Caveman pic is gone for a bit!)

 

[Shaden]

Not to get in the way of your back and forth here, and I'm going more for 'perspective' than being 'dismissive'.......but let me ask you (all) a straight up question.

Other than people you 'know' from the DIS, how many people do you personally know that have been to WDW, and what percentage of those people had any clue what the DIS or a podcast was? Personally, I know probably 100 people that have been, 0% of which has a clue about the DIS.

What's the DIS membership? Add 1,300 FB respondents. What do you get, 1% of the 10 mil people who visit WDW annually? And that is a much more highly WDW educated 1% that actually knows their FP+ from their FP- than the other 9.9 million.

I would never take the leap to say the educated 1% here are representative to the 99% who aren't invested enough to find places like this. You really want to take that leap?

So the 'sliver' comment may not be inaccurate, not that that means that anyone should discount any opinion expressed here. However, it's more likely than not that there are millions out there who hit WDW, and their blower blows, and their table tables, and their FP+ reservations work, and some things make them happy and some things don't, and at the end of the day the populous is satisfied with their overall WDW product.

Really, is there anyone out there that honestly believes WDW won't be humming along in 10 year.....20......30......because of MM+?

In the mean time it's fun for us to debate the minutiae!

DK I very much agree with you, but the point was that Fuzzy and other FP+ advocates like to pass off those who complain about FP+ as a "sliver" of the population, and they do so regularly, while they assume that "Almost everyone" or "The vast Majority" or "The Majority" or "everyone else" etc ... all thing FP+ is great or between Content and awesome, etc.

But there is no reason to think that it is a "Sliver" of the population or a "sliver" of the guests who go to wdw. There is no basis for that dismissiveness. While Fuzzy might be putting his whole stock into this poll, including his spin on its results, let alone its representativeness, it does not reduce the people who don't like FP+ to a "sliver"

Off the top of my head I can think of 6 families who have gone to WDW that I know personally since FP came out, One really liked it as far as I can tell, none of the others did in total sum. Only 1 of those is a first timer (as was the 1 family who liked the system). I also have a family who would have been first timers, but when they found out about the FP+ system and the planning it required, stopped planning their trip and are doing something else instead. And this was despite my protesting and telling them it wasn't really a big deal and I would help them and all that jazz.

But that's just the group of people I know, I don't think -that- is representative either. But none of them are on the disboards, I think one of them knows what the disboards even are. So no, the polls here, the surveying of the people who follow the podcasts, have zero representative value.

That's why the information passed on by the podcasters as per what they are hearing from their clients was so interesting. Its why the wait times and data collected by people like Josh at WDW is so compelling. Its why reading the comments sections in articles is interesting. Because it brings in more empirical data, and more representative data.

But really, a group of people who first are big enough fans that they join a discussion group about WDW (often after investing thousands of dollars in it), and then from that group a sub group is even larger of fans to watch a pod cast on everything Disney, to poll those people and ask about what Disney is doing ... not representative, and probably (IMO much more positive slanting than anything else). I mean, I have seen people on these boards talking about increasing the ticket price as if it was the greatest idea ever. I have also seen a ton of complaints about it, but really, people have actually said increasing the ticket prices is a good thing. People here are fans, they are generally predisposed to like whatever Disney does, all things being equal.

 

[MrInfinity]

Read as...Guinea Pigs. "I, for one, welcome our new FP+ overlords!"

Again, the focus of this is not whether FP+ is here to stay. Of course it is. The poll does not ask people to suggest specific changes. It was intended as a snapshot taken 18 months or so after initial testing and roll out. And the comment that got this all started was that the vast majority like FP+ but are being drowned out on the Boards by the 10% who reside in Bitter Town. And it seems clear to almost everyone who has considered this that the poll results don't really tell a 90%-10% story, if they tell any story at all.

No. It points to the fact that times are changing. You posted the polls from 1 and 2 years ago, above. They were resoundingly against FP+. Today, we see a new poll... in which results are not only not against FP+, but even in the worst possible interpretation, suggest 51% of posters actually LIKE FP+. An in a more middle ground interpretation, you could say anywhere from 70% to 84% like FP+. But we don't even have to say that.

Point is this poll, now 2 years into the FP+ rollout, shows what myself and many others said 2 years ago. Give it time... FP+ may be bad during the transitional rollout time (fortunately I did not go during this time) but when the kinks are worked out, it'll be fine.

In just 2 years, sentiment has turned that much. Even Lake has backed off his "expect to ride 3 things with minimal waits then you better like to shop" stance, as even he got on lots more than that. The system is working better than the horrors most predicted, although still not as well as some would like.

 

[JimmyV]

You posted the polls from 1 and 2 years ago, above.

??? No I didn't.

 

[MrInfinity]

Originally Posted by fuzzylogicllc View Post
You posted the polls from 1 and 2 years ago, above.
??? No I didn't.

You're right, it was Shaden.

 

[flicx]

So when someone ran a poll on disboards about the same subject and it was given more than a 50% dislike rating people complained about the sample size and said how small it was. Yet now we have a small sampling again and its gospel?

 

[JimmyV]

DK I very much agree with you, but the point was that Fuzzy and other FP+ advocates like to pass off those who complain about FP+ as a "sliver" of the population, and they do so regularly, while they assume that "Almost everyone" or "The vast Majority" or "The Majority" or "everyone else" etc ... all thing FP+ is great or between Content and awesome, etc.

But there is no reason to think that it is a "Sliver" of the population or a "sliver" of the guests who go to wdw. There is no basis for that dismissiveness. While Fuzzy might be putting his whole stock into this poll, including his spin on its results, let alone its representativeness, it does not reduce the people who don't like FP+ to a "sliver"

Off the top of my head I can think of 6 families who have gone to WDW that I know personally since FP came out, One really liked it as far as I can tell, none of the others did in total sum. Only 1 of those is a first timer (as was the 1 family who liked the system). I also have a family who would have been first timers, but when they found out about the FP+ system and the planning it required, stopped planning their trip and are doing something else instead. And this was despite my protesting and telling them it wasn't really a big deal and I would help them and all that jazz.

But that's just the group of people I know, I don't think -that- is representative either. But none of them are on the disboards, I think one of them knows what the disboards even are. So no, the polls here, the surveying of the people who follow the podcasts, have zero representative value.

That's why the information passed on by the podcasters as per what they are hearing from their clients was so interesting. Its why the wait times and data collected by people like Josh at WDW is so compelling. Its why reading the comments sections in articles is interesting. Because it brings in more empirical data, and more representative data.

But really, a group of people who first are big enough fans that they join a discussion group about WDW (often after investing thousands of dollars in it), and then from that group a sub group is even larger of fans to watch a pod cast on everything Disney, to poll those people and ask about what Disney is doing ... not representative, and probably (IMO much more positive slanting than anything else). I mean, I have seen people on these boards talking about increasing the ticket price as if it was the greatest idea ever. I have also seen a ton of complaints about it, but really, people have actually said increasing the ticket prices is a good thing. People here are fans, they are generally predisposed to like whatever Disney does, all things being equal.

Great post. A sliver is a sliver is a sliver. The most laughable thing I have ever read here is that "the only people who dislike FP+ are the 10 or so people who post on this Board." Yeah. Some have tried to advance that point. This Board is but a sliver of the general population and it is not representative of anything. An 85% acceptance rate among anal retentive uber planners doesn't tell us anything about the tens of thousands of people who show up on the first day of their vacation having made exactly zero FP+ reservations. And a 15% nonacceptance rate among commandos who need and expect to do 30 attractions a day tells us nothing about the views of first-timers who would be content to ride 8 rides and then head to the pool. What's it all mean? That the population of Bitter Town probably isn't 10%, but what exactly it is cannot be derived from the poll as constructed.

 

[Brian Noble]

the vast majority like FP+ but are being drowned out on the Boards by the 10% who reside in Bitter Town.

Not really. Instead of several active threads a day, we're pretty much down to one. The Ususal Suspects are all here, but mostly people have stopped interacting with them. There are still enough who engage to keep one or maybe two threads going at a time, but the discussion is slowly losing its steam.

 

[JimmyV]

Not really. Instead of several active threads a day, we're pretty much down to one. The Ususal Suspects are all here, but mostly people have stopped interacting with them. There are still enough who engage to keep one or maybe two threads going at a time, but the discussion is slowly losing its steam.

I think Pete was looking at the metrics over the past year in the aggregate. I didn't take his comment to be one of present tense only.

 

[WillAustin]

So when someone ran a poll on disboards about the same subject and it was given more than a 50% dislike rating people complained about the sample size and said how small it was. Yet now we have a small sampling again and its gospel?

It's the same logic that was used back when the group of people using FPs late was only an extremely tiny group because nobody knew about it, but was also large enough to make WDW change their policies.

 

[MrInfinity]

So when someone ran a poll on disboards about the same subject and it was given more than a 50% dislike rating people complained about the sample size and said how small it was. Yet now we have a small sampling again and its gospel?

No, it's saying that the overall sentiment of these small samplings of people that are the fans that tend to spend time on boards or podcasts, 2 years ago, spoke overwhelmingly against FP+. Today, we see a similar poll, and results are now not only not overwhelmingly against, but are between 51% and 84% for.

Nothing's gospel. You can draw your own conclusions.

 

[Brian Noble]

I think Pete was looking at the metrics over the past year in the aggregate. I didn't take his comment to be one of present tense only.

Makes sense. But, you know the old saying "It's all over but the shouting?" Well, the shouting is almost over as well.

 

[JimmyV]

No, it's saying that the overall sentiment of these small samplings of people that are the fans that tend to spend time on boards or podcasts, 2 years ago, spoke overwhelmingly against FP+. Today, we see a similar poll, and results are now not only not overwhelmingly against, but are between 51% and 84% for.

Exactly. But with one additional observation. If the 39% with the opinion: "Don't currently like it, but I could like it in the future if they made certain changes" ultimately come over to the "like" side such that you see your 84%, then you will see the shift to an unqualified success that you believe has already happened. But if the "Don't currently like it, but I could like it in the future if they made certain changes" crowd never sees the changes that they require to shift them over and the numbers end up as 51%-49%, then there will have been very little shift over the two year sample period and the term "unqualified success" would not apply. Still don't know how that will shake out.

 

[JimmyV]

Well, the shouting is almost over as well.

But see? This is where I think we differ. If the 39% who voted "could be good, but needs work" are waiting on some set of substantial changes that never come, and in the end they remain unimpressed or disappointed, then where does that leave us? At 51%-49% and it can hardly be said that the battle is over. The "could be good, but needs work" option, being so widely chosen, is a real difference maker, especially when no one sees any "work" (read as "changes") in the near term. Could happen. But right now, no one is using the dreaded term "testing phase". Certain posters here are assuming that the "could be good, but needs work" camp are all but certain to eventually shift over to "like". I just don't see what is going on behind the scenes to suggest that that shift is coming.