Maybe taking the plunge?

[wilkeliza]

So here I am again year number 6 of going back and forth on DVC. We have come close 2 times before on pulling the trigger on a purchase. The first time we were still a young new couple so figured such a purchase wasn't great. Last time we let the financial side of me get in our way with spread sheets and craziness nad honestly a pushy sales rep made my fiance pretty pissed so we dropped it.

Now with all that said and having 2 friends who own DVC we are looking again. We are strongly considering Cooper Creek. I know in broad terms about bank and borrow, maintenance fees, 11/7 months, and use year but have a more specific UY question.

How do you decide what use year to choose?! We usually travel in September/October and try not to go around holidays (that's for now I know it'll change when we have kids). We also might do a Feb/Mar or a June/July trip as well most years. We average out to between 9 and 15 days at Disney per a year. Always on site and almost always in Deluxe.

Also I know Beach Club has DVC but it hasn't been available for awhile and is a shorter contract. Is there any way to get there still that isn't resell? I know resell is cheaper but I can't imagine saying yes to the resell market just because we prefer to keep it direct and although I know it is a terrible value may trade the points for other hotels if we ever decide not to go to Disney.

So what am I missing?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I did the math elsewhere on this and can pull it up, but if you want to buy BCV, doing it any way BUT resale is madness, and if you got sucked into spreadsheets before, the cost differential to buy direct is pretty insane.

This example is 125 points at BCV.

• Direct point cost: $165/point
  125 points = $20,625
• Resale point cost: $110/point
  125 points = $13,750

Net difference is $6875. Closing will be pretty close in cost.

The major differences between direct and resale right now:

• Resale does not get access to the temporary lounge at Epcot.
• Resale cannot use points for cruises or non-DVC Disney hotels, both of which are poor exchange values.
• Direct gets a discount on APs and can buy the AP Gold even if not a Florida resident (see http://allears.net/pl/apass.htm for pricing); the standard passes are about $100 savings. The Gold AP saves about $125 over a Platinum, but has blackout dates.
• Direct get dining discounts (that can be replicated with a Disney Visa).
• Direct can go to DVC special events and the member cruise.
• Both Resale and Direct can trade into RCI, drink at Top of the World, and pool hop.

Arguably, the APs are the only economic benefit. Special events are never announced 11 months out and are a get-lucky thing. Dining discounts can be replicated. Cruises and Disney Hotels are poor exchange values and are actually a negative economic benefit. Disney themselves say do not buy the real estate interest for the perks, as the perks are transitory and, frankly, have become less good while more hyped over the years.

So, even if we figure the AP Gold discount for $125/year, that's 55 AP Gold discounts required to get that $6875 differential.

Now, if you're really really in love with the color blue and must have the full member card and privs, a hybrid approach is STILL better with BCV.

• 100 points resale at $115/point = $11,500
• 25 points direct with Disney at $165/point = $4125
• Total: $15,625, which is still a pre-close savings of $5,000. If you cannot close 2 contracts for under $5k you are doing closing wrong.

The savings increase considerably for larger contracts, as larger contracts will be less per point in resale, but stable at $165 from Disney. There are never discounts for sold-out resorts/2042 resorts direct.

Realistically, you should only buy direct in 3 scenarios right now:

• Buying Poly (some will debate this as there is Poly in resale now)
• Buying Copper Creek
• Buying add-ons under 50 points

If you buy resale then add on 25-50 points direct, you won't be able to trade the resale points for Disney Collection, but all of the points from resale ARE RCI eligible, so your "want to trade for other hotels" works with resale, as you also say "not go to Disney." You can also rent all of the points and use the proceeds elsewhere.

 

[loril13]

We have two contracts. Our first was at AKV - 160 points direct through Disney. It is a September use year. We typically go October and February. I do not believe we had a choice in our use year. It was what it was.
Exchanging points for RCI or DCL is not a good value for your points. We rented out AKC contract and paid cash for our first cruise last year.
Our second contract is 100 points at BCV which we bought resale as a loaded contract.
Either way, do not buy for the perks. They may be cancelled at any time. I have seen many come and go over the years.

 

[wilkeliza]

Oh not buying for perks at all. For whatever reason resale hasn't been on the table. Fiance even works in real estate but I think he just doesn't want to deal with ROFR and contract negotiations and such. I will bring resell back up to him.

Cooper Creek is what we are currently looking at. Beach Club I brought up because Yacht/Beach is his favorite resort and I know he would love to stay there every time.

So does UY really matter on when you want to stay or only for bank/borrowing situations?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

So does UY really matter on when you want to stay or only for bank/borrowing situations?

UY is an insurance policy against cancellation, really. For a September/October travel date, you'd probably want an August UY. If your travel dates are more scattered, it becomes less relevant.

Beach Club I brought up because Yacht/Beach is his favorite resort and I know he would love to stay there every time.

BCV studios are perpetually difficult to get at 7 months. BCV is small and its owners buy there to book there. I wouldn't expect to regularly book BCV on non-BCV points, especially in fall. Waitlisting can work, but often isn't the DVC dream people had.

Have you considered doing two contracts, one via resale? Then you could use them for different trips, and/or use bank and borrow to alternate years.

 

[wilkeliza]

UY is an insurance policy against cancellation, really. For a September/October travel date, you'd probably want an August UY. If your travel dates are more scattered, it becomes less relevant.



BCV studios are perpetually difficult to get at 7 months. BCV is small and its owners buy there to book there. I wouldn't expect to regularly book BCV on non-BCV points, especially in fall. Waitlisting can work, but often isn't the DVC dream people had.

Have you considered doing two contracts, one via resale? Then you could use them for different trips, and/or use bank and borrow to alternate years.

I'll have to consider that one with him. I was thinking maybe if we could get a 125 BCV resell contract and then 50 direct at Cooper Creek he may go for that. Then we have the small direct to be able to use the lounge and such but also does BCV. Again I don't really care where we stay but he loves that darn lazy river haha.

 

[loril13]

Our first go round, resale made me nervous. We got a great deal for AKV, so I was comfortable with the sticker for direct through Disney.

We were never able to get into BCV at the seven month mark. That is why we bought the second contract. Be diligent in looking for one. Get on a daily e-mail listing with your reseller of choice. I lost one within minutes of it being listed.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

There is nothing "wrong" with resale. It's just like buying a house. It's real estate.

The Epcot lounge was extended to end of 2017, but I expect it gets eliminated when the FW reimagining starts.

 

[chalee94]

1)

There is nothing "wrong" with resale. It's just like buying a house. It's real estate.

I agree - and like I usually say to new buyers, "don't automatically turn away from resale as if it's bad...because if your circumstances change and you need to sell your DVC, you WILL be selling in the resale market." Disney doesn't buy back contracts directly. And since you will be selling at resale prices, you will lose less in that circumstance if you paid resale prices to purchase.

2) For UY month:

Ideally, you want to travel early in your UY. So for my Oct UY, it's good that I like to travel in Nov/Dec - which is right after my UY starts on Oct 1.

Ideally, you never want to travel at the end of your UY. I hate summer in Central FL, so I don't want to go in July/August/Sept - which again works great for an Oct UY.

So if you can at least pick 3 months when you'd never want to travel to WDW, pick a UY that starts right after that 3 months.

3) Just to nitpick, it's actually "Copper Creek."

 

[kboo]

UY is an insurance policy against cancellation, really. For a September/October travel date, you'd probably want an August UY. If your travel dates are more scattered, it becomes less relevant.



BCV studios are perpetually difficult to get at 7 months. BCV is small and its owners buy there to book there. I wouldn't expect to regularly book BCV on non-BCV points, especially in fall. Waitlisting can work, but often isn't the DVC dream people had.

Have you considered doing two contracts, one via resale? Then you could use them for different trips, and/or use bank and borrow to alternate years.

This is what we plan to do - currently waiting to close on a Feb UY that should give us good flexibility for vacations during our usual school vacation times, February - August. Then, depending on how we like BCV, we will look for a BWV or BCV contract with an Jun-August-ish UY to book and stay in the Epcot area for F&W, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Two things you haven't mentioned, but that I would consider:

1. You seem like a young couple and kids may be in the picture? If so, think about whether you'd vacation at WDW during school break times - some of those are really expensive if you are looking to stay in a deluxe. (This is what tipped us over the edge this year; oldest daughter is in K and we can't easily pick when we go based on the best hotel deals any more, so we might as well use that 11 mo home booking window).

2. While it's possible to overanalyze the financial side, don't discount real $ effects. We got our BLT contract via resale for almost $13,000 less than it would have cost direct. Sure, it is taking longer (2 months v. days, if Disney has the points), but $13,000 pays for a lot of vacations! We are considering adding on direct in order to get the DVC benefits- mainly discounts and the Gold AP pass, but ONLY if it makes financial sense.

 

[wilkeliza]

1)

I agree - and like I usually say to new buyers, "don't automatically turn away from resale as if it's bad...because if your circumstances change and you need to sell your DVC, you WILL be selling in the resale market." Disney doesn't buy back contracts directly. And since you will be selling at resale prices, you will lose less in that circumstance if you paid resale prices to purchase.

2) For UY month:

Ideally, you want to travel early in your UY. So for my Oct UY, it's good that I like to travel in Nov/Dec - which is right after my UY starts on Oct 1.

Ideally, you never want to travel at the end of your UY. I hate summer in Central FL, so I don't want to go in July/August/Sept - which again works great for an Oct UY.

So if you can at least pick 3 months when you'd never want to travel to WDW, pick a UY that starts right after that 3 months.

3) Just to nitpick, it's actually "Copper Creek."

1 -I just brought up resell. Cost is a considering factor for sure. I'm all for resell as it bring considerable discounts up front. I also look at it as just getting the rooms for a relatively discounts price over the cost of the lifetime of the contract. Anything beyond that is a plus.

2 - Good to know. I know July/August are always the why oh why did we come this month trips. June only happens for a birthday trip and is not a usual trip. We usually stick to Sept/October and Feb/March.

3 - Thanks. I have this problem where I spelled it wrong once and I fixed it and now I talk my self back into it being Cooper and not Copper haha. Oh a funny way our minds work.

This is what we plan to do - currently waiting to close on a Feb UY that should give us good flexibility for vacations during our usual school vacation times, February - August. Then, depending on how we like BCV, we will look for a BWV or BCV contract with an Jun-August-ish UY to book and stay in the Epcot area for F&W, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Two things you haven't mentioned, but that I would consider:

1. You seem like a young couple and kids may be in the picture? If so, think about whether you'd vacation at WDW during school break times - some of those are really expensive if you are looking to stay in a deluxe. (This is what tipped us over the edge this year; oldest daughter is in K and we can't easily pick when we go based on the best hotel deals any more, so we might as well use that 11 mo home booking window).

2. While it's possible to overanalyze the financial side, don't discount real $ effects. We got our BLT contract via resale for almost $13,000 less than it would have cost direct. Sure, it is taking longer (2 months v. days, if Disney has the points), but $13,000 pays for a lot of vacations! We are considering adding on direct in order to get the DVC benefits- mainly discounts and the Gold AP pass, but ONLY if it makes financial sense.

1 - Yes young couple. Getting married later this year. No kids yet but kids in the future if we are blessed with such. So the kids convo won't affect our travel for at least 5 years but more realistically 10. (That is if we don't end up homeschooling or doing a co-op school situation).

2 - Yes a 13,000 difference probably would have sold us last time. My over analyze was more on what we average now on trips, what the cost of the contract is per a year then adding member dues to that and seeing if it actually saves or not. I got a little too over the top on that. I didn't realize we were paying as much as we were for deluxe because I was using priced I paid prior which were always a CM rate.

 

[kboo]

1 - Yes young couple. Getting married later this year. No kids yet but kids in the future if we are blessed with such. So the kids convo won't affect our travel for at least 5 years but more realistically 10. (That is if we don't end up homeschooling or doing a co-op school situation).

2 - Yes a 13,000 difference probably would have sold us last time. My over analyze was more on what we average now on trips, what the cost of the contract is per a year then adding member dues to that and seeing if it actually saves or not. I got a little too over the top on that. I didn't realize we were paying as much as we were for deluxe because I was using priced I paid prior which were always a CM rate.

Congratulations!!
We didn't add member dues or time value of $ to the cost consideration, but a very rough back of the envelope estimate said we'd break even after about 5-7 stays in deluxes (what we do, too). Looking back, since we had kids, we've been to WDW 5 times! Granted 2x were because DH and I each had a conference in Orlando, but I keep thinking that if we'd bought at the beginning of that stretch, how much $ we would have saved.

And 3 out of the 4 of us have summer birthdays - DH - July, I'm late August and my older kid is a week later in early September. So we are looking at summer trips fairly frequently no matter what... !

 

[Shellyred8]

I'm not sure if you've looked at the annual dues for Copper Creek yet or not. I think most of us had sticker shock when we saw what they were going to be. Annual dues at BCV are 6.27 per point. Copper Creek is 7.33 per point. If you have a 150 point contract, that's a difference of about $160 per year in annual dues between these two resorts.

All that being said, keep an eye on Copper Creek. They might offer some purchase incentives that make it more worth your while.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[wilkeliza]

I'm not sure if you've looked at the annual dues for Copper Creek yet or not. I think most of us had sticker shock when we saw what they were going to be. Annual dues at BCV are 6.27 per point. Copper Creek is 7.33 per point. If you have a 150 point contract, that's a difference of about $160 per year in annual dues between these two resorts.

All that being said, keep an eye on Copper Creek. They might offer some purchase incentives that make it more worth your while.

Good luck with your decision!

I haven't seen anything from Copper Creek yet. Last time we did the tour they just barely had started selling Poly.

Is 165 a point the base price pretty much for all DVC so Poly or Copper it is going to be 165 a point and then Annual dues is what changes?

I think we also got a really really pushy guide. 150 sounds about right for us for now (we can always add on later) and I know the guide tried to tell us 300 points is what we needed!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I haven't seen anything from Copper Creek yet. Last time we did the tour they just barely had started selling Poly.

Is 165 a point the base price pretty much for all DVC so Poly or Copper it is going to be 165 a point and then Annual dues is what changes?

I think we also got a really really pushy guide. 150 sounds about right for us for now (we can always add on later) and I know the guide tried to tell us 300 points is what we needed!

Regarding dues - Copper creek has studios, 1BR's and 2BR's and they point requirements they used are identical to VWL/BRV so it takes less points for those rooms which translates to paying dues on fewer points. PVB has only studios and the point requirements for those studios are generally equal to the highest that DVC has so it requires more points up front and more points to pay dues on.

The largest part of the dues increase on Copper creek is in the real estate tax which DVC has no control over. I would not be surprised to have that spill over pretty quickly to other resorts.

 

[Shellyred8]

To figure out the number of points you will need, take a look at the points charts for the resorts and room types you want to stay at, for the time frames when you think you will travel most. That will be a good starting point for how many points you should look at. Be careful about basing the points on the "Standard" view. Those are the fewest points per room, so everyone wants those and they go fast. You might want to get a few more points to allow for the next room view up from "Standard".

A note from my experience: We determined our number of points based on staying in a Studio every time. Then we made the mistake of staying in a 1BR. Now I want to stay in a 1BR more often because I love the extra space and the laundry. It might not happen to you, but if you read these boards, you will see I'm not alone in this experience.

 

[disneynutz]

Choosing your favorite resort is the most important issue IMO. In a short while the excitement of park time will start to diminish and being home in your favorite resort is what keeps us as DVC owners. Buyers don't really consider this and that's one reasons why booking at 7 months at other resorts has become more of a challenge.

Bill

 

[wilkeliza]

Choosing your favorite resort is the most important issue IMO. In a short while the excitement of park time will start to diminish and being home in your favorite resort is what keeps us as DVC owners. Buyers don't really consider this and that's one reasons why booking at 7 months at other resorts has become more of a challenge.

Bill

That is something to consider for sure. Copper Creek is more what I like (I love cabins and rustic) and again Stormalong Bay is for him haha.

We have considered if we would tire of the parks but even when I had all day any day access to the parks for a year straight I never really tired out. I am at peak happiness with a Sbux double shot sipping it while sitting on main street or running around taking photos. I'm sure that could change but it still hasn't and I honestly hope it never does.

 

[wilkeliza]

To figure out the number of points you will need, take a look at the points charts for the resorts and room types you want to stay at, for the time frames when you think you will travel most. That will be a good starting point for how many points you should look at. Be careful about basing the points on the "Standard" view. Those are the fewest points per room, so everyone wants those and they go fast. You might want to get a few more points to allow for the next room view up from "Standard".

A note from my experience: We determined our number of points based on staying in a Studio every time. Then we made the mistake of staying in a 1BR. Now I want to stay in a 1BR more often because I love the extra space and the laundry. It might not happen to you, but if you read these boards, you will see I'm not alone in this experience.

Good idea. I'll play around with that and see. I think realistically I am thinking a contract for 1 week studio with the better views. If we do a short trip with a 1 bedroom in stead so be it but thinking for the start just getting enough to cover 1 of our 2-3 trips in full on DVC since we do flux year to year. Some years we do 1 trip and some we do 5 just really depends on what we are doing outside of Disney.

 

[Marionnette]

I haven't seen anything from Copper Creek yet. Last time we did the tour they just barely had started selling Poly.

Is 165 a point the base price pretty much for all DVC so Poly or Copper it is going to be 165 a point and then Annual dues is what changes?

I think we also got a really really pushy guide. 150 sounds about right for us for now (we can always add on later) and I know the guide tried to tell us 300 points is what we needed!

No. $165 pp is not the standard. VGF direct purchase is $185 pp. SSR is $145 pp. CCV is $176 with a minimum buy-in of 100 points for new members.

The number of points that you will need is going to depend on when, how often, how long and in what size villa you expect to stay. Like you said, you will always have the ability to add more points if you learn you are constantly borrowing or coming up short. And there's no law that says you cannot ever stay I need a resort hotel room just because you own DVC.