May 2022 Direct Sales drop

[CaptainAmerica]

What is the GF's theme?

I don't like VGF either, so you're asking the wrong person, but if they were selling Poly 2, VGF2, and Riviera side by side, I wouldn't be shocked to see sales coming in at something like 60%, 25%, 15%.

 

[sndral]

I don't like VGF either, so you're asking the wrong person, but if they were selling Poly 2, VGF2, and Riviera side by side, I wouldn't be shocked to see sales coming in at something like 60%, 25%, 15%.

Unless the economy really tanks & assuming present sales trends continue VGF2 will be sold out before Poly2 comes online & Riv will likely still be in direct sales even after Poly2 sells out (assuming Poly2 isn’t a behemoth.)

 

[Arbogast]

I don't like VGF either, so you're asking the wrong person, but if they were selling Poly 2, VGF2, and Riviera side by side, I wouldn't be shocked to see sales coming in at something like 60%, 25%, 15%.

Because you think people like the Poly that much or what?

 

[Huskerpaul]

What is the GF's theme?

Stuffy?

 

[TraderStitch]

Riviera is targeted to a completely different crowd than VGF2. We are buying Riviera fully aware of the restrictions because we don't spend a huge amount of time in MK. We are primarily at Epcot for the festivals and HS. Sure GF is nice but Riviera has a slower feel to it which is what we want.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Riviera is targeted to a completely different crowd than VGF2. We are buying Riviera fully aware of the restrictions because we don't spend a huge amount of time in MK. We are primarily at Epcot for the festivals and HS. Sure GF is nice but Riviera has a slower feel to it which is what we want.

You've expressed perfectly why it is sooooo difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions in comparing sales figures from different resorts. The Grand Floridian is completely different from Riviera. The only things they have in common are that they are at WDW and both are expensive on the point chart spectrum.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Riviera is targeted to a completely different crowd than VGF2.

The question is not about whether it's the same crowd, the question is about which crowd is bigger.

 

[Sandisw]

The question is not about whether it's the same crowd, the question is about which crowd is bigger.

And in the next few months we will see if that crowd remains larger in a substantial way and how DVD responds to that in terms of future decisions.

What is interesting is that the new incentives went up on both resorts…so they may have info sales for VGF were going to continue to drop or flatline.

 

[Kjdisney]

VGF opened in 2013. And I was told by people in this very thread that nobody would want VGF2 because Resort Studios are stupid and the lack of a microwave is an affront to God and the Constitution.

Nah, I'll maintain my overly-reductionist line in the sand on this one. People simply hate Riviera because it's a lifeless concrete box with no discernable theme, and they don't want to be stuck selling a restricted contract 15 years from now.

Well that’s a bit harsh lol! I think There is also a lot of people like me, that go not expecting to like it, and are really impressed. The lobby is a bit underwhelming, but the rooms are beautiful! I actually think DVC did a great job designing the layout of the rooms, and bulding the tower to maximize the views from the rooms. On our last visit we toured a few DVC resorts and RIV rooms were my favorite.

I think the Poly Tower announcement probably stopped some current members purchasing RIV. I’ve read lots of comments saying they would purchase poly2 regardless of the restrictions, and could be waiting. I know I am.

Also in fifteen years, what are your choices for an Epcot/HS resort? I think there is a good possibility of RIV being one of the strongest resale resorts in the future because I bet Disney has big plans for the boardwalk area, and RIV will be the only resale with easy access.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Also in fifteen years, what are your choices for an Epcot/HS resort?

Hopefully Yacht Club with a 2080 expiration, or Boardwalk 2, or Beach Club 2. I'm not sure why everyone thinks the 2042 resorts are going to fall off the face of the Earth when they expire. Disney is going to flip and resell them.

 

[Sandisw]

VGF opened in 2013. And I was told by people in this very thread that nobody would want VGF2 because Resort Studios are stupid and the lack of a microwave is an affront to God and the Constitution.

Nah, I'll maintain my overly-reductionist line in the sand on this one. People simply hate Riviera because it's a lifeless concrete box with no discernable theme, and they don't want to be stuck selling a restricted contract 15 years from now.

People are buying but those resort studios didn’t fly off the shelves either when they opened for booking to everyone. Key dates went fast but there are still plenty around here and there when the deluxe studios are sold out.

And, there is no way to ever tease out if people bought because of those or because it include: current VGF. We only bought for that reason. .

People don’t hate RIV. It’s booked up quickly so I’d say it is pretty popuLar and again, millions of points sold so some have decided it’s worth it.

 

[arich35]

Someone remind me the restrictions if you bought Riviera resale?

 

[hglenn]

Someone remind me the restrictions if you bought Riviera resale?

Resale RIV points can only be used at RIV - none of the other resorts.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Hopefully Yacht Club with a 2080 expiration, or Boardwalk 2, or Beach Club 2. I'm not sure why everyone thinks the 2042 resorts are going to fall off the face of the Earth when they expire. Disney is going to flip and resell them.

Totally agree with you here. I also think it's a safe assumption that the point charts and price points on those flips are going to leverage the prime location and real estate more so than in today's version of those resorts.

 

[kilik64]

Totally agree with you here. I also think it's a safe assumption that the point charts and price points on those flips are going to leverage the prime location and real estate more so than in today's version of those resorts.

Those point charts will make RIV and poly2 seem like a bargain.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Totally agree with you here. I also think it's a safe assumption that the point charts and price points on those flips are going to leverage the prime location and real estate more so than in today's version of those resorts.

I don't anticipate much of a dramatic points chart increase. Disney is pretty consistent in that points-per-night roughly correspond to the price that cash guests pay in terms of rack-rate-per-night. VGF costs more than BWV in points because GFR costs more than BWI in cash. There are specific room types that are "too expensive" and "too cheap", but for the most part, the resorts are ranked properly according to their cash prices.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't anticipate much of a dramatic points chart increase. Disney is pretty consistent in that points-per-night roughly correspond to the price that cash guests pay in terms of rack-rate-per-night. VGF costs more than BWV in points because GFR costs more than BWI in cash. There are specific room types that are "too expensive" and "too cheap", but for the most part, the resorts are ranked properly according to their cash prices.

Initially, I agree. But no way does BWI or BCV come back in 2042…assuming it does with a point chart that isn’t close if not more than what VGF is now because the current charts won’t stick around.

 

[kilik64]

I don't anticipate much of a dramatic points chart increase. Disney is pretty consistent in that points-per-night roughly correspond to the price that cash guests pay in terms of rack-rate-per-night. VGF costs more than BWV in points because GFR costs more than BWI in cash. There are specific room types that are "too expensive" and "too cheap", but for the most part, the resorts are ranked properly according to their cash prices.

Its 20 years away, cash rooms will be astronomical by then too.

 

[Huskerpaul]

Hopefully Yacht Club with a 2080 expiration, or Boardwalk 2, or Beach Club 2. I'm not sure why everyone thinks the 2042 resorts are going to fall off the face of the Earth when they expire. Disney is going to flip and resell them.

I agree. The profit without the need of any CapEx will be way too tempting. I wonder what the deal is with the Swolphin land. Anyone know it is just leased, or any details?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Its 20 years away, cash rooms will be astronomical by then too.

I'm not talking about rack-rate-per-point in absolute terms, I'm talking about rack-rate-per-point relative to the other resorts.

Price-per-point covers inflation. They don't inflate points charts over time. The data is very clear on this. Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge having almost identical charts is the easiest example.

The myth of points chart inflation was born when RIV charts came out and everyone thought Disney was just going to jack points through the roof with newer properties. But when RIV cash prices came out, the myth should have died. RIV isn't a points hot due to inflating charts, it's a points hog because it's also a cash hog because Disney has positioned with with VGF as a dual-flagship.

The rest of the apparent "points chart inflation" is simply that monorail and Skyliner resorts cost more than Crescent Lake and middle-of-nowhere resorts, and they always will.

If they start selling VYC in 2040, you'll be able to get a studio for 100 points. You might have to pay $400 per point to buy the contract, but it's not going to have a chart that looks like the Grand or Poly.