Masked men rob couple at DTD

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Timben, Guten Tag from Orlando. My mother is originally from Salzburg so I am part-Austrian!

Generally speaking, American cities are much more dangerous than European cities. Gun control is very lax here and there is a lot of drug addition among poor, inner-city residents. But you'll not encounter any problems if you don't wander around alone at night and stay away from areas that have high crime rates. I understand that Vienna is not as safe as it used to be because of the influx of poor immigrants. And that is also true for many European cities. I will be in London and Berlin later this week; both very safe cities. But each city has areas that I should not enter.

Downtown Disney is extremely safe; some people on here feel it should be perfect. Downtown Orlando is actually very safe at night as well and is full of bars, nightclubs and restaurants that can get very crowded. But you have to stay where there other people and not go into dangerous neighborhoods and not go around alone. Malls are also very safe with plenty of security but after dark in the parking lots you should always pay attention to your surroundings.

So don't let these postings scare you. It's sunny and 74F at the moment! Gute reise!

BobK/Orlando

 

[mitros]

timbin,
On this I totally agree with GR8FAN.

DTD is not dangerous by general standards but it is not as safe as it used to be (but this is probably symtomatic of American society in general), which is my lament. I remember Disney from it's orgins when everything was done without peer, precedent or regard to profit/loss. It was generally believed (and proven) that if you give the customer the absolute best, you will succeed. Disney today runs by the modern profit/loss model and trades on its reputation for unbridled quality to a large degree (IMO).

This safety issue is just another thing where I think "acceptable" just isn't good enough.

IMO also, as well as a lot of other folks I'm sure.

 

[theantibride]

You know the malls are all privately owned and yet you don't see them charging people to get in and such. That's what Downtown Disney is: A big, overpriced mall. With Disney's name smacked in front of it. And yes that name means something to us that something like Simon doesn't, but expecting Disney to be perfect and free from problems is unrealistic. Anyone familiar with the history of Disneyland knows the problems they had with violence and such there int he 1970s. Security has been seriously beefed up over the past year and a half, as a passholder I've seen that. Honestly, seeing double or triple the amount of cops doesn't make me feel safer. But here is a very simple fact: criminals will pay money to rob you, hurt you, whatever. So even if you charge a parking fee to them it's worth it. Parents need to keep close tabs on their kids and not let them run wild with no boundaries (and I'm not saying this in reference to any posts in this thread) but kids today will try anything once to see if they can get away with it. So if it's the kids you're worried about then keep tabs on your own and if you see a group of kids behaving suspiciously report it to a cast member. That's not Disney's fault -- that's irresponsible parenting. And that cast member will have Disney Security jump down their throats like there is no tomorrow -- I've seen them do it! I know so many people who have been pickpocketed in the theme parks -- the things you pay admission for -- it's not funny. I called to report a lost item and the sheriff's office knows the address of every single theme park by hand because of the volume of crime that happens -- and it's not just pickpocketing. And it's not just Disney. It's Universal and Sea World too! So maybe Disney needs to put in some more lighting and brighter lighting. I wouldn't mind that -- anyone whose ever had to try to find something they dropped in the parking lot at DTD after dark would probably appreciate that! And maybe spread the cops around instead of having them all sit outside of the Virgin Megastore. But security gates don't stop crime and they don't give an aura of security -- they take that away -- ask any kid who has to walk through a metal detector upon entering school. Someone wants to do something wrong -- nothing will deter them. And if you're worried about being there after dark then don't go then. And yes it is Disney, so for whatever reason we put them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect, but it's not 100% safe. It never has been and it never will be. The world is not a safe place anymore, a very very sad fact of life. But nothing will ever completely deter a criminal and that's an even sadder fact. The only thing we as human beings can do is look out for one another and stop expecting someone else to do it for us. I reported 2 teenage girls shoplifting in my Target not long ago. There was security at the door, cameras everywhere, and shoppers milling about them, but they still did it. And I reported them. It wasn't the easiest thing to do but it was the right thing to do. And they got caught and are now paying the price. The only way we can stop crime is to not turn a blind eye to it or expect someone else to do something about it. Remember the saying: You have to be the change you want to see in the world. And that includes Disney World. You want it safer then you have to help make it that way. Better to report something harmless that looks out of place to you then find out later you could have prevented something horrible. But just sitting on a message board griping about how you're uncomfortable wandering around does not help anyone out. You need specific places, times, and reasons why. Then they have the necessary info to do something but just a general uncomfortable feeling doesn't help solve the problem. So next time this happens find security or the sheriff's deputies hanging around and tell them where you were, when you were there, and what you saw that made you feel unsafe. They can look into it or maybe give you some information to help put your mind at ease. And if that's not possible then as soon as you get a chance write Disney a letter listing these exact same things. Then they are armed with the information to make a change, but right now just talking about it on a message board -- you might as well be in the middle of a forest screaming at the trees. You need to share the details and then Disney can go in and fix the problem because they probably don't see things in the same light you are and you need to open their eyes to the problem.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

You know the malls are all privately owned and yet you don't see them charging people to get in and such. That's what Downtown Disney is: A big, overpriced mall. With Disney's name smacked in front of it. And yes that name means something to us that something like Simon doesn't, but expecting Disney to be perfect and free from problems is unrealistic. Anyone familiar with the history of Disneyland knows the problems they had with violence and such there int he 1970s. Security has been seriously beefed up over the past year and a half, as a passholder I've seen that. Honestly, seeing double or triple the amount of cops doesn't make me feel safer. But here is a very simple fact: criminals will pay money to rob you, hurt you, whatever. So even if you charge a parking fee to them it's worth it. Parents need to keep close tabs on their kids and not let them run wild with no boundaries (and I'm not saying this in reference to any posts in this thread) but kids today will try anything once to see if they can get away with it. So if it's the kids you're worried about then keep tabs on your own and if you see a group of kids behaving suspiciously report it to a cast member. That's not Disney's fault -- that's irresponsible parenting. And that cast member will have Disney Security jump down their throats like there is no tomorrow -- I've seen them do it! I know so many people who have been pickpocketed in the theme parks -- the things you pay admission for -- it's not funny. I called to report a lost item and the sheriff's office knows the address of every single theme park by hand because of the volume of crime that happens -- and it's not just pickpocketing. And it's not just Disney. It's Universal and Sea World too! So maybe Disney needs to put in some more lighting and brighter lighting. I wouldn't mind that -- anyone whose ever had to try to find something they dropped in the parking lot at DTD after dark would probably appreciate that! And maybe spread the cops around instead of having them all sit outside of the Virgin Megastore. But security gates don't stop crime and they don't give an aura of security -- they take that away -- ask any kid who has to walk through a metal detector upon entering school. Someone wants to do something wrong -- nothing will deter them. And if you're worried about being there after dark then don't go then. And yes it is Disney, so for whatever reason we put them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect, but it's not 100% safe. It never has been and it never will be. The world is not a safe place anymore, a very very sad fact of life. But nothing will ever completely deter a criminal and that's an even sadder fact. The only thing we as human beings can do is look out for one another and stop expecting someone else to do it for us. I reported 2 teenage girls shoplifting in my Target not long ago. There was security at the door, cameras everywhere, and shoppers milling about them, but they still did it. And I reported them. It wasn't the easiest thing to do but it was the right thing to do. And they got caught and are now paying the price. The only way we can stop crime is to not turn a blind eye to it or expect someone else to do something about it. Remember the saying: You have to be the change you want to see in the world. And that includes Disney World. You want it safer then you have to help make it that way. Better to report something harmless that looks out of place to you then find out later you could have prevented something horrible. But just sitting on a message board griping about how you're uncomfortable wandering around does not help anyone out. You need specific places, times, and reasons why. Then they have the necessary info to do something but just a general uncomfortable feeling doesn't help solve the problem. So next time this happens find security or the sheriff's deputies hanging around and tell them where you were, when you were there, and what you saw that made you feel unsafe. They can look into it or maybe give you some information to help put your mind at ease. And if that's not possible then as soon as you get a chance write Disney a letter listing these exact same things. Then they are armed with the information to make a change, but right now just talking about it on a message board -- you might as well be in the middle of a forest screaming at the trees. You need to share the details and then Disney can go in and fix the problem because they probably don't see things in the same light you are and you need to open their eyes to the problem.

You KNOW that people here haven't "done more"? I've sent my letters, I've complained to management and I'll bet others have too. This message board isn't incognito either. It gets a strong Disney presence from interested management right down to the paid schills who operate within our midst...

 

[theantibride]

I'm not saying people here haven't. I'm sure you have spoken up since you are so passionate about this. What I'm saying is a lot of people have said somthing along the lines of "I just don't feel safe there." That doesn't tell the company anything. For all they know a person could simply be paranoid. And I'm not saying that anyone here is -- I'm saying that without specifics they can't do anything. I have a great aunt who does have paranoia and doesn't fell safe anywhere but she can't explain why. If you say to someone "There is a group of about 10 teeange boys outside of the magnet store and they were pushing at each other and shouting out profanity at one another" that gives them something specific to resolve. Just a general "I don't feel safe" doesn't solve the problem. That's all I'm saying.

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

I must say that I am surprised that anyone feels unsafe at DTD!

I worked there for 5 months on the college program recently, and frequently walked to my car (far away! ) alone or in small groups at 2 am... and never felt unsafe. As for PI, there are security officers assigned to all of the clubs, as well as Orange County deputies working every night. The most uncomfortable I ever felt was around drunk middle-aged businessmen!

To those of you who felt that way...why was it? I am just wondering...was it lack of security, certain groups of people, etc.? I am not saying you are not justified in feeling that way...I am just wondering what created the unsafe feeling. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Uncleromulus]

For us it was a combination--always a large # of "youths" (teens) wandering around in groups with apparently nothing to do--loitering I believe is the term. And those drunks staggering about--many of those in groups as well.
Frankly, other than that large Disney store, there isn't much about that whole area that IS Disney--so we simply don't go!!! There's plenty for us to do in the rest of WDW.

 

[kirrrby]

i've never experienced any unsafe conditions in DtD, although i have encountered some rude people [but its life] I don't plan on not visiting DtD everytime we travel to Disney, because we have a simple routine, to eat at the House of Blues on the first night we get there, and its been that same way for a while. The only part of DtD that i find that there is a lack of security, would have to be from the Entrance to Pleasure Island to the end of the yellow bridges. It needs to have more control in my opinion.

 

[Hotdoggie1977]

You know the malls are all privately owned and yet you don't see them charging people to get in and such. That's what Downtown Disney is: A big, overpriced mall. With Disney's name smacked in front of it. And yes that name means something to us that something like Simon doesn't, but expecting Disney to be perfect and free from problems is unrealistic. Anyone familiar with the history of Disneyland knows the problems they had with violence and such there int he 1970s. Security has been seriously beefed up over the past year and a half, as a passholder I've seen that. Honestly, seeing double or triple the amount of cops doesn't make me feel safer. But here is a very simple fact: criminals will pay money to rob you, hurt you, whatever. So even if you charge a parking fee to them it's worth it. Parents need to keep close tabs on their kids and not let them run wild with no boundaries (and I'm not saying this in reference to any posts in this thread) but kids today will try anything once to see if they can get away with it. So if it's the kids you're worried about then keep tabs on your own and if you see a group of kids behaving suspiciously report it to a cast member. That's not Disney's fault -- that's irresponsible parenting. And that cast member will have Disney Security jump down their throats like there is no tomorrow -- I've seen them do it! I know so many people who have been pickpocketed in the theme parks -- the things you pay admission for -- it's not funny. I called to report a lost item and the sheriff's office knows the address of every single theme park by hand because of the volume of crime that happens -- and it's not just pickpocketing. And it's not just Disney. It's Universal and Sea World too! So maybe Disney needs to put in some more lighting and brighter lighting. I wouldn't mind that -- anyone whose ever had to try to find something they dropped in the parking lot at DTD after dark would probably appreciate that! And maybe spread the cops around instead of having them all sit outside of the Virgin Megastore. But security gates don't stop crime and they don't give an aura of security -- they take that away -- ask any kid who has to walk through a metal detector upon entering school. Someone wants to do something wrong -- nothing will deter them. And if you're worried about being there after dark then don't go then. And yes it is Disney, so for whatever reason we put them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect, but it's not 100% safe. It never has been and it never will be. The world is not a safe place anymore, a very very sad fact of life. But nothing will ever completely deter a criminal and that's an even sadder fact. The only thing we as human beings can do is look out for one another and stop expecting someone else to do it for us. I reported 2 teenage girls shoplifting in my Target not long ago. There was security at the door, cameras everywhere, and shoppers milling about them, but they still did it. And I reported them. It wasn't the easiest thing to do but it was the right thing to do. And they got caught and are now paying the price. The only way we can stop crime is to not turn a blind eye to it or expect someone else to do something about it. Remember the saying: You have to be the change you want to see in the world. And that includes Disney World. You want it safer then you have to help make it that way. Better to report something harmless that looks out of place to you then find out later you could have prevented something horrible. But just sitting on a message board griping about how you're uncomfortable wandering around does not help anyone out. You need specific places, times, and reasons why. Then they have the necessary info to do something but just a general uncomfortable feeling doesn't help solve the problem. So next time this happens find security or the sheriff's deputies hanging around and tell them where you were, when you were there, and what you saw that made you feel unsafe. They can look into it or maybe give you some information to help put your mind at ease. And if that's not possible then as soon as you get a chance write Disney a letter listing these exact same things. Then they are armed with the information to make a change, but right now just talking about it on a message board -- you might as well be in the middle of a forest screaming at the trees. You need to share the details and then Disney can go in and fix the problem because they probably don't see things in the same light you are and you need to open their eyes to the problem.

Wall of text. Im sure that was well thought out and written, but needs paragraphs.

 

[TSR6]

I must say that I am surprised that anyone feels unsafe at DTD!

I worked there for 5 months on the college program recently, and frequently walked to my car (far away! ) alone or in small groups at 2 am... and never felt unsafe. As for PI, there are security officers assigned to all of the clubs, as well as Orange County deputies working every night. The most uncomfortable I ever felt was around drunk middle-aged businessmen!

To those of you who felt that way...why was it? I am just wondering...was it lack of security, certain groups of people, etc.? I am not saying you are not justified in feeling that way...I am just wondering what created the unsafe feeling. Thanks for sharing!

Erin, I agree with you. Been there, done that - minus the businessmen aspect. hah. I made that same walk to the cast-lot during two programs. Never had a problem.

 

[Brian430]

The idea of gating this attraction is a cool idea - if it were truly a Disney attraction.

But Disney long ago opted to assume a landlord mentality and rent out the bulk of this property out to any merchant with a good credit rating. So not only have they lost control of the Disney experience (a giant record store, McDonald's, and other mall staples) but they lost control period.

Add to that the fact that they continually build new hotels without expanding the capacity of DTD and you have a property that is so congested that my family will only go during the day.

Like most tourism areas, Orlando is mostly a low-income area with fairly high crimes rates. And building a giant mall complex in the middle of it, which is accessible to virtually any derelict, is an invitation to crime. So yes, you are now starting to see activity at DTD that simply isn't taking place as frequently as other parts of Disney.

That's one reason we will never again stay at Saratoga Springs, which is strolling distance from DTD. Most of that sprawling complex is so far removed from the hub of the main resort that, as guests, we felt isolated and unsafe – especially at night. For example, we saw things going on at Saratoga's "quiet pools" that simply don't happen at the quiet pools of say a Wilderness Lodge, or a Boardwalk. The dark, unpatrolled grounds, and absence of indoor, locked hallways don't help matters much.

If you ask me, the infrastructure and the staffing (especially security) at the DTD area is simply not keeping pace with the room capacity of WDW nor the crime rates of the Orlando area.

As a small business owner I find it astounding how small minded Disney management can be about pinching pennies. The security detail they hire makes what, $10 maybe $15 an hour? DTD should have at least another 20 security personnel in the evenings. That's $200 to $300 an hour for a complex generating hundreds of thousands of dollars during the same time period.

An extra ten teams of two patrol men with flashlights and walkie talkies would be all the presence they would need to make people feel safe and the bad guys uncomfortable.

 

[SingingMom]

I must say that I am surprised that anyone feels unsafe at DTD!

To those of you who felt that way...why was it? I am just wondering...was it lack of security, certain groups of people, etc.? I am not saying you are not justified in feeling that way...I am just wondering what created the unsafe feeling. Thanks for sharing!

Dark and isolated is what I felt while waiting for the hotel bus. And it was a LONG wait for that bus!

Wall of text. Im sure that was well thought out and written, but needs paragraphs.

 

[G8RFAN]

So not only have they lost control of the Disney experience (a giant record store, McDonald's, and other mall staples) but they lost control period.

Interesting.... the businesses you are pointing at are the ones that are attracting the undesireable elements? Would you have preferred every venue to be owned and operated by Disney? I think each club is a joint venture with Disney, but I'm not sure how Disney wouldn't want to shield itself from the liability of serving alcohol in a club environment so I might be wrong. It is funny that I can't seem to find any of the names of the clubs currently listed as ficticious names or corporations listed with the State of Florida. However, it does seem they have very tight control of these clubs and the theming. I'm not sure if Disney can legally own a movie theater (I don't know of any theater chain owned or operated by a film distributor) or if they can get the economies of scale to offer unique shopping concepts with just one little store instead of inviting chains and experienced vendors.

I saw lots of security last month. I realize that "fear" is very subjective and when you state that they need more security it becomes more of a function of your perception compared to a careful study of historical issues, current crowd flows and demographics (budget concerns aside). However, I'm sure Disney officials care also about perception more than substance in the industry it is in so it's good that we voice our perceptions and detail what we personally would like to see. When you have moving patrols, how often would a security detail have to cover a certain point? Once every 5 minutes? Once a minute? There comes to be a point where there is an over saturation of security and it becomes static. If you want static security, would you prefer to see one every 50', 100'? IMHO, I don't think they need anywhere near that kind of coverage, but like I said, "fear" is very subjective.

I do keep hearing that people don't like the dark lonely areas of the bus terminals. Is this on the Marketplace side or PI/Westside or both? Has there ever been issues at the bus stops compared to the known issues in the parking lots? I know nobody wants to be the first statistic, so would a permant security CM at each bus stop be enough? How about during the day? Only during peak times at night or if all night how long after the last store/venue closes at DTD?

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The night clubs at PI are all owned by Disney; they are not joint ventures. (Not sure about Raglan Road, but I'm talking about the dance and comedy clubs.)

BobK/Orlando

 

[G8RFAN]

The night clubs at PI are all owned by Disney; they are not joint ventures. (Not sure about Raglan Road, but I'm talking about the dance and comedy clubs.)

BobK/Orlando

That's surprising given the nature of the venues. I assume then BET is just a licensing arangement. Thanks for the insight. In any event, I'm pretty sure that Raglan Road is not from what I remember from their website. Since I really don't venture into PI too much other than to pass thru, how is the security presence in that area? I could see a need for a much higher static presence there.

 

[SingingMom]

I do keep hearing that people don't like the dark lonely areas of the bus terminals. Is this on the Marketplace side or PI/Westside or both? Has there ever been issues at the bus stops compared to the known issues in the parking lots? I know nobody wants to be the first statistic, so would a permant security CM at each bus stop be enough? How about during the day? Only during peak times at night or if all night how long after the last store/venue closes at DTD?

I found it "dark & lonely" in both the Marketplace and Pleasure Island sides. I think I would have felt more comfortable with a security CM patrolling the bus stops.

 

[cruisedad]

I understand that Disney only pays about $9.50/hour for their Security people.

 

[TSR6]

The night clubs at PI are all owned by Disney; they are not joint ventures. (Not sure about Raglan Road, but I'm talking about the dance and comedy clubs.)

BobK/Orlando

Raglan Road is their own, just leasing space from Disney.

That's surprising given the nature of the venues. I assume then BET is just a licensing arangement. Thanks for the insight. In any event, I'm pretty sure that Raglan Road is not from what I remember from their website. Since I really don't venture into PI too much other than to pass thru, how is the security presence in that area? I could see a need for a much higher static presence there.

BET originally owned/ran the club. The contract ended, and Disney took over in the current form. I believe this happened in '04, but I may be mistaken.

 

[CanadianGuy]

right down to the paid schills who operate within our midst...

Crap. They're on to us guys. Disperse!

--
On a serious note, I've never felt unsafe at DTD.

That maybe a function of when I travel.

Or perhaps that I'm a strapping 136 lbs of pure Canadian beefcake.

No wait, that's not it.

ahem.

I've found the bus stops on the Pleasure Island side well lit enough generally speaking and the security presence more than adequate -- esp at 2am.

I will say that I find the Marketplace bus stops darker on the whole and I agree better lighting and at least SOME security presence on that side would be a welcome addition.

Knox

 

[nmdisfans]

My wife and I just returned from our first Christmas-time visit to WDW (our 24th visit overall since 1997). For years we have enjoyed DTD and PI in our visits and have always felt safe with the exception of this last visit.

We were unable to get accomodations at a DVC or Disney resort this time (we planned the trip last minute and had to stay at the Best Western). This forced us to use the "other" bus stop at the end of the parking lot (something we have never done before) - we had to walk thru the parking lot to get to our bus. The parking lot and parts of downtown and PI seem to be barracaded permamently nowadays creating a maze-like walkway unless you are heading to Saratoga Springs or the "Disney" branded bus stops of PI or Marketplace.

During our walk, my wife and I both spotted, without talking to each other, two suspicious looking characters holding brown bags, wearing wool caps (it was 65 degrees out) wandering in and out of the parked cars and generally looking dangerous/threatening. There were no other families or "shoppers" to be seen and the lot itself was very dark.

Our years of living in big cities trained us to not make eye contact and walk away from them without appeaing concerned, but we were. For the first time in ten years of visiting WDW, we actually were worried about our safety. It was 9:30 at night (not 2AM like some of the posters mentioned). There were no signs of Disney patrols, cops or other security. We may have over-reacted, but I am not sure. And it definitely changed our experience this trip in a way we were not used to at Disney. Perhaps our years of trips without incident of any kind has numbed us. Perhaps we have come to expect too much from Disney vacations. Either way, the myriad comments on these pages shows that perhaps there really is a problem. I hope some of the Disney cast members actually look at these boards and do something. It would be a shame to lose DTD or PI because of these issues. I have to respectfully disagree with some of the posters who have suggested that DTD is like a mall or other big city venue. Its not, its a Disney property. As a former So Cal resident, the thing we always loved about WDW versus Disneyland is that you are not surrounded by Anaheim and its issues when you walk out the gate. The size of the WDW property perhaps gives a false sense of security, but it has always seemed like there was more "Disney Control" at DTD and now that seems to be gone. Sorry to run on, but these posts definitely struck a chord with us.

PS - we have a lot of our new vacation club points at Saratoga Springs and have made the walk that other's have expressed concern over (from DTD to the resort on the dark path) without incident and without fear - although now we are worried. -Chris