Masked men rob couple at DTD

[Peter Pirate 2]

Well, DTD is lot more unsafe than my hometown so that argument doesn't hold up with me.

And yes if you're prudent and constantly aware (as you always should be) then DTD will probably be OK but it's sad that even here on a fan board that so many people are willing to give Disney a free pass ... What more could they do? How could they prevent petty crime? How could they make the parking lots safer? I don't know how but I know THEY COULD IF THEY REALLY CARED.

Disney sells the pixie dust, the magic, the total escape and it is incumbant on them to make these promises stand up. This is a Company that makes millions upon millions and yet some folks think it's OK that DTD is simply safer than downtown Orlando or most major cities ... I'm saying that's not OK. Crime may not be rampant at DTD, as the hyperbole makes it out to be, but there should be virtually no worries whatsoever, IMO.

Disney is more than happy to take these huge profits, not so happy to actually live up to the ideals that the Company was built upon anymore.

 

[G8RFAN]

Well, DTD is lot more unsafe than my hometown so that argument doesn't hold up with me. ....

You may live in a vacuum, but WDW is not in your neighborhood. I had my camera stolen on a cruise ship. Not only was there a $1500 "entry fee" but everyone had to walk through metal detectors and ingress/egress for theives is far from convenient. What else would you have suggested other than telling me that I should have had a better eye on my camera? If your hometown is so sheltered, I question your ability to spot all the riff raff you claim you have seen. I live in S. FL and few places are more challenged in crime. We are always vigillent traveling, shopping, pumping gas, etc.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Well, I live in "Souther" Florida than you ...Due to the problems that proliferate in South Florida and Orlando (where we have a second home in Celebration, so WDW kind of is in my neighborhood ) I am fully aware of the dangers and surroundings...Heck, I won't even make eye contact with other drivers in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale.

I realize that bad things can happen anywhere but I'm saying Disney can take some of their profits and make all of their properties safer than they are now, if they really cared. But they're banking on people being "grateful" that Disney's illusion of safety and actual record of being "better than downtown Orlando" is good enough...Good enough isn't good enough for the Disney I grew up with. That Disney actively tried (and succeeded) in exceeding the guests expectations and I'd certainly think guests safety would be a higher priority than is seems to be.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Antibride, excellent post.

G8RFAN, ditto.

Peter Pirate, sorry. You've offered no suggestions as to how Disney is going to eliminate all crime from its property. But please share the name of your hometown that has no crime so that I can move there. I live in a gated community with security and crime has happened here too.

BobK/Orlando

 

[Kaler131]

Mayberry???? LOL!

 

[Uncleromulus]

What Pirate is saying seems to be this: this is Downtown DISNEY, not downtown Orlando, or downtown Baltimore. This is WDW property--but unfortunately, it's wide open to anyone who wants to wander on in. And that's exactly what they do.
Solutions--probably none.
Except just don't go, which is my personal solution.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I didn't say we had no crime where I live (we have theft and the occasional bar fight) but nothing that in 25 years has worried me as a resident in the least. I live in Marathon, Florida, btw (I thought most people knew that but I forgot it was on the original Peter Pirate's sig and not PP2).

The Mayberry comment seemed a bit snarky though.

I didn't realize you guys were waiting for ME to offer suggestions for Disney's woes but OK...Start with the parking lots. Eliminate free access by charging for parking or simply having everyone pass through guarded entrances. Eliminate the number of enter/exit points into DTD itself, especially on the Westside. Again have everyone enter through carefully screened/monitored portals. Third, a return to more visible security...This almost always keeps people from wrongdoing.

So I've offered three very rudimentary options that would probably do the job but I'm absolutely sure Disney experts could do better, IF THEY CARED.

 

[MassJester]

I think the easiest, and least intrusive modification would be to put more uniformed security folk into the area. A visible pressence almost always has a positive impact on both peoples' perception of security and the manifestation of criminal acts.

 

[tink4ever]

We spend a couple of vacations a year in disney and I have to say I agree with Peter Pirate 2. Our 3 children have grown up with Disney and now are 20, 19, & 15 years old. So they have been roaming for a couple of years now by themselves with their friends, etc. But every time they leave to go to DTD I am afraid. Now they don't stay all night because they are still underage and my 15 year old hasn't done this yet but they are out until midnight atleast walking around and people watching as it may. So I agree that maybe charging admission or needing a pass to get to all of the DTD area is a good idea. I want to be able to send my kids to have a good time because they have grown up believing this is their "magic place" in this crazy world. I just think we should feel just as safe in DTD as we do in all of the other areas of Disney.

 

[G8RFAN]

It's night. Although the parking lot is well lit, there is a lot of shadows cast between the crowded parking lot of SUV's and vans. You choose to walk between the cars rather than the 60 or so feet to the well lit and open pathway. Suddenly, the sliding door on a van with dark tinted windows opens as you walk by and you freeze. However you see a kid jump out with a sibling yelling to stop and give back the gameboy. You breath a sigh of relief and walk towards the entrance again. Before you get there, you see a large car with loud music blaring and you see the passenger hanging out the window yelling at a group of about a dozen urban dressed teens walking out towards the parking lot and ... you. You are on high alert mode right now and have thoughts of turning around and going back to the room. The gate they installed around the entire parking lot creeps you out even more as you feel like you've just entered cell block A. You say to yourself, "The hell with this, why did I pay $10 to park and come here? I can buy the same damn things in the parks." "I should have turned the car around at the guard gate when they drilled me on why I was driving in. Plus, those SWAT guys with that German Shepherd and mirror to look under my car really should have clued me in."


Two things. One, no matter how you present it, if you attract teens and young adults as patrons, you will have some people who will go thru "gang anxiety". Malls also face this same exact issue. Second, defining what a gang is and profiling measures becomes very serious issues for a company like Disney. We have already seen backlash and ulimately, if all you do is saturate an area with security that is soley cosmetic without the authority to do anything, then you have not acheived a single thing except for looking inept. Realistically, how do you keep the riff raff out without borrowing from the Agusta National's playbook? Make it unaffordable, make it difficult to cause mischief, make it a well known fact that they are not welcome at DTD all the while making sure that welcome mat is out and warm and friendly so that they feel and breath the pixie dust? Yet, make damn sure that no innocent people are accused of being riff raff or make sure you are not profiling a certain race? Very tough without 1. removing every venue that would attract young people or 2. create a security presence that makes a statement without making the headlines.

When I grew up, I lived in a neighborhood where everyone's front door was unlocked or open and screen doors were really the only thing barring entry into one's house. We had block parties for the 4th of July and everyone kids made extra money mowing lawns or shoveling snow. Odds are, many of you grew up in the same environment. I think Celebration's mission statement was to recreate that sense of home and neighborhood thru infrastructure and controls. HOA's have become popular because of it too. If and/or when I feel that WDW is no longer in control of it's own property, I'll just have to find another slice of heaven elsewhere. I hear Sante Fe is nice.....

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I understand the very nature of the demographic will cause inherent issues but as I said we frequent City Walk quite a lot and never have half the consternation we feel at DTD despite the fact that all of Universal is generally geared to a rowdier demographic (my opinion, of course). As ChrisFL said it is probably due to the limited access/exit manner at CW but DTD could conceivably acomplish something along these lines too.

 

[G8RFAN]

Citywalk is a secured zone by design. Whether you walk in by one of the pathways from the resorts or the boat launches, parking garage, or the shuttles, you are going to have your bags checked. Could someone throw an unchecked bag in the dark to someone already on a boat launch without being seen? Sure. Could someone smuggle something in strapped to their body? Absolutely. Could someone be waiting in a car by the shuttle drop off for their partner in crime after a purse snatch or robbery? absolutely. It doesn't happen because there really isn't any place in Citywalk that you can do something without being in the open. However, I certainly don't feel any more safe in US's parking garages or parking lots than at DTD. And in my personal experience, the worst I've seen at DTD was not as bad as the confrontation that we saw a Cityplace because one guy "looked" at another guy funny. Anyhoo, I mentioned my cruise ship incident before as proof that no matter how tighly controlled you may have the "property", you can always experience crimes. A lot of people "suk" and fortunately in this country they have the freedom to do the same things that the people who don't suk do. We just need to keep an eye out. I know Disney does care. Just like cities and municipalities allocate only a portion of their budget to police and fire, without these incidents and subsequent high profile reporting, the metrics wasn't there for the bean counters to allocate more security. That I guarantee you has changed. I've seen it with my own eyes.

I think was also "lost" is the number of people at these venues. DTD by far handles a greater number of people flow. How you manage that flow with security is very challenging if you want to make it "secure". Most of the crimes and alleged crimes we have seen at DTD has been in the parking lot areas or in the very remote areas. I don't think any amount of security short of the explosive sniffing dogs could have thwarted the pipe bomb. I happened to be there at DTD that weekend and while it made the news, I only found out through my friend calling me on the cell phone. A guard at the entrance and/or exit of the parking lot is not going to affect the gangs and "elusive prostitutes" as long as they pay the paltry price to get in.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Eliminate free access by charging for parking or simply having everyone pass through guarded entrances.
Charging is not an option. They are competing with other shopping venues and no one is going to pay to shop. Pointe Orlando has done it and it has been a failure. What are guarded entrances going to do? Are they going to check ID's?


Eliminate the number of enter/exit points into DTD itself, especially on the Westside. Again have everyone enter through carefully screened/monitored portals.
I believe there are currently 5 entry/exit points; they could indeed reduce them and make it harder to make a quick getaway. Not sure the traffic could handle having so few entrances and exits though.

Third, a return to more visible security...This almost always keeps people from wrongdoing.

This has been done. Uniformed Disney Security and OSO deputues are all over the place; plainclothes too. Yet the recent pipe bomb and robbery happened. You simply can't prevent all crime from happening, period.

BobK/Orlando

 

[Disney MAINEiac]

what I find really scary about this is the fact that SSR is just a short albeit dark walk from DTD. I am rethinking my comfort level with walking around SSR after dark now. last time we stayed at DTD we walked from SSR to DTD and back after dark and never encountered any security or check points to get onto the resort property. Whats next room invasions and breakins????

 

[Kaler131]

The Mayberry comment seemed a bit snarky though.

Sorry....I was just kidding with ya!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

RE: The snarky comment, it's OK...I wasn't really trying to compare by hometown to Disney in the first place but it was kind thrown at me.

OK, we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess. As you recall I didn't feel it incumbant on me to find Disney's solutions but my opinion was dismissed because I didn't. So I offered three ...

(1) Parking fee. You say not an option I ask why? Maybe not even a profitable amount needs be charged, maybe just a nominal .50 per hour? Maybe free, just have gated, guarded entrance/exit points so actual attendants can keep tabs on things, close off traffic if need be (notification of some altercation, etc.). Disney makes millons from their endeavors, I think they can afford to offer the epitome of guest safety if they wish.

(2) Number of entrance/exits into DTD itself...The number isn't the key, it's the way it is accomplished. Make it more organized, less free form. Give people the idea that a quick getaway for any reason will not be easy.

(3) Increase uniformed presence. I hear this has happened since the number of incients has increased but still it seems rougish at PI, it seems...Perhaps a few more would be prudent?

It's obvious some of us are not going to agree but I'll finish by falling back on my constant drum beat. Disney should be better than the rest because they desitre to, because they're entire business was founded on the quality first premise, because Disney always felt you should EXCEED a guests expectations.

 

[timben]

Reading your post's makes me feel somehow very uncomfortable. As it sounds that it seems to be dangerous to go downtown Orlando or DTD or even a mall after all.

That said, I have to admit that we are from Vienna, Austria, Europe, and of course all we hear from cities in the US is that they are very, veeery dangerous especially at night.

I've been to a lot of the larger European cities including London, Paris, Berlin, Sofia and even in Vienna with it's 2 mio. inhabitants I would says there are not many places I would totally avoid going past midnight. Seems we have to be very aware when making trips to the US or a just influenced by bad news.

 

[G8RFAN]

timben,

Yes, there are certain areas in certain cities that you should not be out at night. Most metropolitan cities all have questionable sections. Rome is probably a good example of having a few areas at night that you should stay away from. Pickpockets in the subways are rampant in parts of Europe, but once you can "profile" the typical scoundrel, you know who to watch out for. It is no different in the US. If you know where not to go, then you generally are fine.

 

[Another Voice]

Most metropolitan cities all have questionable sections.

So Downtown Disney is now just "one of those places to avoid" rather than fixing the security problem?

Please.

Disney moved a large chuck of its security out of DTD to staff all the bag check points at the parks. Downtown just doesn't generate the money to make effective patrolling "worth the effort". But now if people feel unsafe, they are going to avoid the area, which means even less money, which means less security, which means people feel even less secure...the whole spiral.

Disney can make Downtown as safe or as open as they want. There isn't a single shopping mall in the country that has the police powers that Disney has (thank's to Reedy Creek). WDW isn't the victim here, no matter how many people want to whine and play that part. Downtown is the seedy parts of Baltimore or the Cleveland - it's private property with it's own police force.

Downtown Disney is unsafe because Disney let it become that way. And it's in their power to fix it too.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

timbin,
On this I totally agree with GR8FAN.

DTD is not dangerous by general standards but it is not as safe as it used to be (but this is probably symtomatic of American society in general), which is my lament. I remember Disney from it's orgins when everything was done without peer, precedent or regard to profit/loss. It was generally believed (and proven) that if you give the customer the absolute best, you will succeed. Disney today runs by the modern profit/loss model and trades on its reputation for unbridled quality to a large degree (IMO).

This safety issue is just another thing where I think "acceptable" just isn't good enough.