Manners?

[ton80]

also you have to remember that these kids are in WDW and are out
of there mind. But the parents that ignore this type of behavior (pushing line cutting and acting like out of control devils)
more than likely were just like there kids when they were at the same age.

 

[lllovell]

I know that often what happens with my children is that we are more accepting of behaviors because WE are breaking our own rules (like bedtime, eating french fries with every meal for 3 days, etc) just so we can play more...and lets face it - kids need their schedules. When you toss them out of the normal day to day activities, you are going to occasionally get some behavior that has to be nipped in the bud. Sometimes you see the nip, sometimes you see it right before I have put my 3 year old in time out for yelling in the halls (after a warning) or maybe I miss the action and you think my children are wild animals. Maybe they were for that moment, but they are incredibly excited (just like mom) and sometimes it comes out in behavior that is not appropriate.

Either way, I hate rudeness very much too. But, I agree with tkraz, in a big public area like WDW, you are going to run into people being rude.

 

[Mary2816]

TKRAZ, WELL PUT!!

 

[Plus4206]

***"I don't disagree, but realistically how often does one have time during a WDW visit to put the behaviour in context? "***

See, that's the problem. It's not a WDW issue. It's a local mall issue.A supermarket issue. An ice cream stand issue. A church issue. A beach issue. I'm seeing it everywhere I go. It only stands out more in WDW because depending on where you're at, you can't get away from it. When you're in a ride que and little Jonnie is screaming at the top of his lungs over & over & over that he WANTS SOMETHING mom & dad should at the very least get the heck out of line and give the rest of us a break.

Also, have you ever noticed that on any particular trip, you seem always seem to run into a certain family or couple all the time. You don't know who they are but you find yourself on the same bus or in the same line with them several times ????? It's pretty cool actually....unless they have a screamer with them.

 

[tjkraz]

Also, have you ever noticed that on any particular trip, you seem always seem to run into a certain family or couple all the time. You don't know who they are but you find yourself on the same bus or in the same line with them several times ????? It's pretty cool actually....unless they have a screamer with them.

Point taken!

While I may not have the historical perspective to make this judgement, I just don't think that kids today as a whole are any worse than they were several decades ago--at least not back when I was a child, which may just feel like eons ago.

And as far as parents go, is today's passive, indifferent parent really any worse than the "old school" dad who kept his belt unbuckled so that he had it ready for use at a the first sign of trouble?

Certainly things are different, but are they worse?

 

[CharlesTD]

Kinda funny this topic came up my parents were very lenient with my sister and I she is hell and I was for some reason well behaved I guess I had more outlets for my agression and strees playing many sports. I find myself the ruling with an iron fist father and my DW is the more passive time outs etc type. SHe hates the way I deal with things when the kids get unruly but yet they are behaved and tow the line when I have them all day. She has a hell of a time with them in the evening my guess is because they know what they can do and get away with with her. On our recent trip to WDW she told me she would use her ways of discepline on them and I was't to use mine that was till the third day when they wouldn't even listen to her anymore and I took over adn no more issues with it she still hates the way I deal with it but if a smack on the rear is what they will respond to then a smack on the rear is what they get even if it is in public.

 

[bicker]

It's amazing how quickly the little ones modify themselves when they realize that acting out results in an afternoon by the hotel pool instead of in the park.

Of course getting them to the point of realization is a bit of a challenge!

 

[CharlesTD]

Our kids wouldn't view a day at the pool rather than the parks as punishment as we have a hard time getting them out of the pool. We could spend 2 weeks at Disney and never step foot in the park they love the pools that much. So for us it is a day in the room no tv no games nothing and if I have my say a tanned butt depending on the issue.

 

[dallastxcpa]

Point taken!

While I may not have the historical perspective to make this judgement, I just don't think that kids today as a whole are any worse than they were several decades ago--at least not back when I was a child, which may just feel like eons ago.

And as far as parents go, is today's passive, indifferent parent really any worse than the "old school" dad who kept his belt unbuckled so that he had it ready for use at a the first sign of trouble?

Certainly things are different, but are they worse?

I believe in general that children today are more misbehaved than in prior decades. There is a big difference between a sit down restaurant (ie Yachtman Steakhouse, California Grille, Narcosses) and McDonalds or a character buffet. Yet, parent's let their children behave in the same manner in all places. My husband and I had a very expensive meal ruined one night because the parent's next to us had a four year old that was running around their table and chanting loudly. Now, let me tell you that I am a Mom to three 25, 21, and 8 and even my youngest knows the appropriate behaviour at various places. An example of misplaced behaviour would be someone going to the opera and yelling like they were at a rock concert.

the "old school" dad who kept his belt unbuckled so that he had it ready for use at a the first sign of trouble?

This was my Dad. He could pull that belt off with one hand and it made this swoosh sound. Let me tell you though that in my 18 years at home that my parent's only spanked me once and I deserved it. I stole something from a neighbor and to this day I am truly sorry for my behaviour. There was always that knowledge that if you truly did something that was beyond the line you would be punished. I believe in corporal punishment and I believe that we need to bring it back into public school. Not the Principal or the Teacher, but have the parent should come to the school and discipline the child and if this is against the parents belief then the child should be suspended from school for an amount of time appropriate to the offense.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I have observed a substancial difference in what is expected and accepted behaviour now compared to when I was growing up in the 50's or even when my children were growing up in the 70's and 80's. Our kids were not beaten or otherwise abused, but they did know what the rules and limits were, and if they wanted priveledges they knew they had to follow those rules and limits. Sure kids have "meltdowns", and I don't really think that is what any of us are talking about. The things that concern me are the distructive behaviours that parents allow to occur and even witness without changing the behavior. Pushing through lines, shoving others aside, destroying property, crowding into lines, even purposely running strollers into others and laughing about it are all behaviors I have witnessed at WDW. I'm not taloking about pre-schoolers either. These are kids old enough to know better, and are accompanied by parents who do nothing about it, and sometimes encourage it. I have been sitting on a curb for a parade and had parents tell their children to scoot in front while they proceed to step on my fingers because I am proping my back up by leaning on my arm. When I move my hand, the adult steps half in front and then squeezes the child in. If those same people were behind me and being considerate, I would wait until the parade started, and then I would invite the child to come sit in front of me, but I hate to give up my spot to someone who is pushy.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

One of the many "worst episodes" we had with one of our babies was after an MGM meal on our way to Fantasmic. I was pushing her in the stoller and we literally got enveloped by the hearding masses. It was a stampede right out of the Lion King...only the stampede was not moving!! We were trapped in the crowds, and really could not exit (it brought back fond memories of the one Delta Airlines trip we took...but that's another DVC story). She screamed her head off from before the entrance to Fantasmic up to the stroller parking area..and then some.
I don't know about some of you, but I really enjoy the feeling I get when my child is wailing unconsolebly and I'm literally trapped in a crowd. I love the disapproving looks from other parents who have, and would NEVER push their kids so much at WDW. Truth of our situation was our baby was well rested had napped that day, and we never run around the parks all day, especially if we are going to an evening show. Sometimes you plan and plan and plan and things just don't work out. Just like Piglet says in one of those Pooh bedtime stories..."When things don't go as planned...Make the best of it"!! I've seen just as many whiney or otherwise disruptive episodes from adults at WDW. Like the $400 V&A dinner where we thought we were in a TB clinic because some woman hacked through our entire meal. I guess is was Mickey Karma our Fantasmic episode earlier in the trip WDW is a crowded place and your bound to encounter all sorts of inappropriate behaviors from all age groups.

To be quite honest, I don't know what is worse. Being trapped in a line next to a whining kid, or being trapped in line next to some "overly important" business person who is cellphone yacking on and on about some customer sales pitch.

I vacation to get away from work and spend time with my whiney kids.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Johnnie, your situation is not one that bothers me unless it goes on throughout the show. Most kids have those kinds of meltdowns occationally, and I am quite sure most folks who have ever been parents understand that. The only issue I would have is if it continued throughout the show and the parent didn't remove the child from the area so others could still enjoy the show.

 

[Divamomto3]

But in this thread we're not talking about the "occasionally" child that is properly raised and disciplined by two attentive parents. We're talking about the child that's still screaming and whining an hour after he didn't get his 3rd ice cream cone. Or the kid that's climbing all over the furniture or tearing up a flower bed while mom & dad just look away as if nothing is wrong. Or the one that's hitting mom or dad in the face during their temper tantrums. Those are the kids that people are rolling their eyes at but it's the parents who deserve the stares.

As the best friend of a wonderful woman who has an 6 year old son with severe autism, I would just like to make a friendly reminder that you many have no idea what a child's cognitive abilities or disabilities are when you witness them "hitting mom or dad in the face during their temper tantrums" or throwing themselves on the ground and crying. T.J. doesn't "look" autistic at a glance. I know you're all going to write back and say, "We're not talking about disabled children, we're just talking about the brats, but can you really tell the difference without more information?

 

[Gymbomom]

I totally agree. I have no problem with kids being kids. It's the bad parents that obviously encourage bad behaviour that troubles me. I am likely to offer a small child the opportunity to sit or stand in front of my front of the parade spot, if they are behaving and so are the parents. I'll defend my spot if those same parents and children think they are "entitled" to it at the last minute.

Totally Agree!!!

 

[Laurajean1014]

I find it ironic that people judge others so quickly without knowledge or compassion.

Isn't being judgemental a bad manner? If you act like badly, so may your children. Lead by example - don't be quick to judge others, gossip or disgrace. Show your children that you have grace and to bring out the grace in them.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Johnnie, your situation is not one that bothers me unless it goes on throughout the show. Most kids have those kinds of meltdowns occationally, and I am quite sure most folks who have ever been parents understand that. The only issue I would have is if it continued throughout the show and the parent didn't remove the child from the area so others could still enjoy the show.

I stood alone in the back standing room only area, and the show was not filled to capacity. So I don't think she was disruptive or ruined the show for anyone. Besides Fantasmic is so loud I don't think her wailing could be heard. BTW, we all slept great that night!!

As for the hacking V&A woman, she didn't really didn't ruin our dinner. It was more like a real life episode of Monty Python!! We had to make a big effort not to giggle. I hate those situations at Disney because I always wonder if the person is on a "make-a-wish" type trip. I just bring her up as an possible example of bad/disruptive adult manners, where the adult could have removed themself from the crowd.

 

[crisi]

One of the big differences is the amount of exposure you now have to strangers children.

When I was little, we ate out at "fancy" restaurants (of the Friday's caliber) a few times a year. I wasn't in a nice restaurant until I was in high school - my "baby" sister would have been ten. And I wasn't in a really nice restaurant until I was an adult. Most of my time was spent in the neighborhood. When we did leave our own neighborhood - it was for "kid" things - movies maybe the museum. My mother did her shopping on the weekends when my Dad could watch us - or while we were in school. In short, while I was a well behaved kid, I had very little opportunity to act out in public.

My kids, due to lifestyle differences, are raised differently. They go to restaurants all the time. While WE don't feel comfortable taking young kids to "fancy" restaurants, we seldom go out to a fancy restaurant without seeing several young children. Tons of parents bring their kids shopping to the mall (and my kids wouldn't behave while I tried on clothes either, which is why my kids don't go with me unless we are shopping for them). Parents often don't have the luxury of running their errands without the kids - as lives are so busy that you are squeezing in the grocery trip on the way back from t-ball.

More children in public = more misbehaving children. Unless the proportion of well behaving children has significantly increased.

I remember my first trip to WDW as a teenager and we watched and talked about all the young children, overtired, throwing tantrums, acting like spoiled brats. That was 21 years ago. I remember because I thought at that time I wouldn't brave Disney with children younger than 10. But I did.

 

[crisi]

I'd like to also second what Divamomto3 said. WDW has done an exceptional job of appealing to kids with disabilities. And families in healing. Not all disabilities are visible, and families who are healing are seldom visible. I have to say that I'd probably have a lot more tolerence for minor acting out on a "cancer recovery" trip and a lot more willingness to give on a trip taken to "celebrate" the formation of a step family than I'd be willing to give my kids on our "normal" Disney trips.

I'm sure many of the bratty kids are brats. And at least some of those bratty kids are the result of indifferent parenting. And I'm sure that some bratty kids are simply bratty for the moment (and my kids aren't perfect). Some are bratty by disposition and Mom and Dad may be attentive good parents with a child "with the devil in him." And some are the result of extentating circumstances.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

More children in public = more misbehaving children. Unless the proportion of well behaving children has significantly increased.

When we were kids, mom left us in the car in the grocery store parking lot...in July. These days that's child abuse. And god forbid you are unable to pay at the pump, some "do-gooder" will call DCFS if you leave your kids in the car will paying for your gasoline. Thank god for tinted windows!

 

[crisi]

Mine did too.

Our meltdown story happened at Boma. My daughter can be challenging (which is why we eat at Boma and not Jiko), but she had been pretty well behaved all vacation. For some reason she wanted to only eat strawberries and dessert for dinner and for some (I could still whack him upside the head for this) unfathomable reason, my husband decided Boma was the appropriate place for a power struggle with a very stubborn little girl about eating something other than strawberries for dinner seven days into an exhausting vacation. So he insisted she eat a chicken finger or mac and cheese to get dessert. She, after being good for a very long week, melted down. And, unfortunately, it was one of those meltdowns that to remove her would have meant picking up a screaming four year and and physically removing her from the restaurant while she kicked. Chances of us getting her out without someone getting a foot in the head were slim. And once she threw the tantrum we have a policy of "throwing tantrums does not get you your way" and were stuck on the path to disapproving looks. We think the policy is wise (in the two years since, the challenging behavior has been significantly reduced), but it LOOKS horrible and is really disruptive to anyone around us. (If anyone was there, I apologize).

Our waitress was wonderful and managed (through the wonder of an impartial stranger) to negotiate a compromise - which involved a chicken finger with some "special sauce" (honey) or something. She settled down and had the three bites of chicken finger she needed to get a brownie and we left.