Mandalorian Season 3

[PolymerSkywalker]

If something trends on twitter, and this did for days.........yes 100% guaranteed that 50,000 plus people liked or shared tweets complaining about these cameos. It was universally hated on by the vast majority of the fan base. Were there people that watched it and thought it was fine, sure..........but once again we are talking in percentages here. You obviously don't agree with rest of the fan base on many topics. Doesn't make you wrong, but it does make you as having a different opinion from the majority of the fans. Viewers are different from fans I agree. Viewers watch something once and then say, yeah that was fine. Fans watch something 3 times looking for the easter eggs and then go on twitter to see what people are saying. Then go on youtube to watch all the reveiws about that content. Then tell their friends on social media to go see it because it was great. Then also order the merchandise associated with the content. You need both to be successful, but "fans" certainly buy more tickets and merchandise I would say.

I saw ET like 8 times in the Theater, absolutely loved that movie. I was an ET super fan I guess. When a movie is an absolute phenomenon it is really cool. Watching all the people love Top Gun Maverick and even run to the stores to buy aviator shades was really cool, and I wish this generation got to see those type of major movie events more often.

 

[BrianL]

Fans are still the smaller group of the general audience. Yes, repeat viewings do help push those movies from blockbusters to mega-blockbusters for sure, but it can't be the only consideration. I would probably still argue that the majority of the fanbase is fine with most of these very controversial things. Maybe they don't love them, but they don't vehemently hate them either and they don't let them spoil everything else. The Internet warriors are just a subset of a very large group.

And, agian, what was so "bad" about Lizzo's performance? It was a bit part and she did fine, so what's the real issue?

The issue today is that EVERY movie want's to be those major movie events, which simply isn't possible. There are only so many movie-going dollars around. If you make 5 Star Wars movies in 4 years, then they can't all be mega-successful. Considering the amount of content coming out and the shorter windows/increased home availability, and it's a wonder anything can succeed in the environment. The mega-blockbusters should be rare, at least if you want them to be truly generational events.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Jack Black and Lizzo seemed to many fans as a cheap attempt to shoehorn two pop culture icons into Star Wars. Christopher Lloyd is much less well known, and does not hit quite as negatively as the other two. Lizzo's outfit was pretty over the top as well with even an approximation of the Mickey Ears added to her headdress. People made videos that stated they knew they were done with Star Wars after this cheap attempt at adding pop star fluff to a gritty, serious, high stakes show. Nothing is bad about Lizzo's performance I guess, other than I just wish neither hers or Jack Black's had ever occurred, because I think it gave some fans a reason to quit watching the show.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I also don't agree that smaller movies can't be great. Ghostbusters Afterlife walked the line perfectly in the face of a very damaged IP from the commercial flop of The Ghostbusters 2016 reboot attempt (likely lost around $70 million dollars). Most hardcore fans didn't even want any more movies made, just let it die.

Afterlife put together a small budget with an eclectic and diverse cast with a female lead "Gasp", and also properly honored and respected the legacy characters. It was great, and $204.4 million on a miniscule little $75M budget. Well received by the fans, and enough so that they are getting a sequel with that same cast. Merchandizing sales were also really good after this movie, and the ghostbusters brand is making money again on that front. So, yes small little movies that aren't blockbusters can be great. That was a great movie!

 

[leiaorgana]

How is what Lizzo’s character was wearing in that episode any different than what Padmé was wearing in the PT? Both of those characters were from a higher society in the SW universe so of course their outfits were going to be grander and more extravagant and they had reasons to be that were explained in the storyline. Lizzo’s character is literally a Duchess. We all know the real reason why “fans” had issues with Lizzo in particular being in that episode and less so with Jack Black and Christopher Lloyd (who absolutely is well known due to his appearance in multiple franchises and dramas).

My parents were old enough to enjoy the OT when it came out and both of them absolutely love The Mandalorian because “it’s fun” to quote them and that’s all they care about. Their favourite episode from the season? Guns For Hire because it was funny and fast paced and a change of scenery. They want to be entertained on a weekly basis and neither of them could understand my complaints about the latest season or why I had issues with certain aspects of it because to them it’s a fun show and that’s all that matters to them and that’s honestly what a lot more people than you realise think about the show and Star Wars in general outside of the internet groupthink bubble you’ve surrounded yourself with. Neither of my parents even knew who Lizzo and Jack Black were until I explained it to them when we were discussing the episode at a later date because they don’t live on the internet and both of them couldn’t care less who they were because it doesn’t matter to them. Same as it doesn’t matter to a large chunk of people out in the real world. Most people aren’t getting up in arms about this kind of thing. The Mandalorian has never been a “gritty, high stakes” show. That’s Andor. The Mandalorian has always been an episode of the week adventure show that’s only shifted into something else this season because there’s clearly a finish line that Jon and Dave are leading up to now.

Trust me when I say most people who enjoy the franchise and call themselves fans aren’t running to the internet immediately after every episode/film to watch someone else talk about it on YouTube because the majority of people out there are capable of formulating their own opinions on what they’ve just watched and don’t need other people to tell them what to think or to validate their own gripes and likes about it. The majority of these YouTubers are purposely stirring the pot because they know it gets them views and in turn brings in more ad revenue. The thought of my Mum running to the store to by a Din Djarin action figure to prove her love and dedication to show is honestly laughable. Not all fans engage with the franchise in the way that you do and that’s okay. You’re allowed to enjoy it the way that you want to and enjoy, same as other people are allowed to engage with it in a more casual way but are still fans and still have same love and passion for it as you do. As they say, nobody hates Star Wars the way that Star Wars “fans” do and the toxicity that’s bred in certain parts of the fandom only perpetuates that. People seem to forget that the original Star Wars film started out as an experimental indie film from a man who hated the studio system and just wanted to do his own thing before becoming the juggernaut that it is today. It’s always been about experimenting and trying new things and pushing the boundaries of new technology and seeing what works and what doesn’t.

 

[Skywalker3]

Kinda scared to wade into all this. But I’m at Disney right now. Just back from a trip to Batuu this morning. Overheard comments sbout Rey included I can’t stand her to ooh there’s Rey and lots of younglings gathering around her , so excited to meet her. I love her character, and do look forward to more of her story and the new movie. Got her lightsaber for Christmas. . My husband is the opposite . He agrees with the criticism that she too easily came by the force. I don’t even know what Y’all meant by Mary Sue. Im old. Had to look it up. Now that doesn’t mean I’m a complete sequel fan. I detest most of episode VIII, but when I rank my Star Wats movies, it’s tied at the bottom with Episode Ii, AOTC, equally as bad and disappointing . And that was done by Lucas. Back to Mando season 3. I found it disappointing .
And poorly written . I do love Bo-Katan , and have since the Clone Wats . She’s an incredible character. Loved watching her arc from then until now. I’m more than good with her being prominent . I like both Lizzo and Jack Black, but their cameos were stupid and misplaced. That episode was awful. This season really turned off my husband. Me too on some ways .
Tons and tons of Grogu merch being worn, carried, etc by people here. Bags, backpacks, shirts , etc so still very popular.
Boba fett is my second favorite character after Luke. I do not at all like how they developed his character in Book/ Boba Fett. Now, my favorite episode of Mando is the Tragedy. Where Fett shows up and kicks a$ like the old days. That’s the fett I want. Hope we get a season 2 to fix it
Andor is the best Star Wars since the original. We loved that series. I can’t even say enough great things about it and can’t wait for more. Wish there were doing 5 seasons.
I do agree that a big misstep was made here in Galaxy’s Edge choosing the Sequels as the focus. But it took years of concept art: planning, snd Force Awakens was a huge hit. I dont mind the theme here. I do wish they’d just retheme and . Have all of the time periods represented in different sections. Prequels all the way through the end. I know they’re attempting to duplicate what Universal did with the Wizarding World, (which is incredible and frankly much, much better done than Batuu,) with complete immersion , but Disney should just abandon this and represent all eras here. But it is still incredibly busy with fans of all ages, casual to hardcore, and probably not fans at all, just here with their families . I’ve found lots to love in all the series and movies, even if I don’t like the overall product. Lots of the smaller bits can be good, and I’m a fan of all eras . .

 

[BrianL]

I also don't agree that smaller movies can't be great. Ghostbusters Afterlife walked the line perfectly in the face of a very damaged IP from the commercial flop of The Ghostbusters 2016 reboot attempt (likely lost around $70 million dollars). Most hardcore fans didn't even want any more movies made, just let it die.

Afterlife put together a small budget with an eclectic and diverse cast with a female lead "Gasp", and also properly honored and respected the legacy characters. It was great, and $204.4 million on a miniscule little $75M budget. Well received by the fans, and enough so that they are getting a sequel with that same cast. Merchandizing sales were also really good after this movie, and the ghostbusters brand is making money again on that front. So, yes small little movies that aren't blockbusters can be great. That was a great movie!

I liked Afterlife, but I will say it was VERY close to falling into the nostalgia fan-service trap with too much of that. Some dailogue was lifted right out of the original movie - they should have polished that up a bit. Of course you want to honor the legacy, but you also have to move forward. It's a good mobie, but not a GREAT movie, but a lot of fans treat it as such simply because it is so reverent. Too much reverence is a bad thing.

 

[leiaorgana]

Kinda scared to wade into all this. But I’m at Disney right now. Just back from a trip to Batuu this morning. Overheard comments sbout Rey included I can’t stand her to ooh there’s Rey and lots of younglings gathering around her , so excited to meet her. I love her character, and do look forward to more of her story and the new movie. Got her lightsaber for Christmas. . My husband is the opposite . He agrees with the criticism that she too easily came by the force. I don’t even know what Y’all meant by Mary Sue. Im old. Had to look it up. Now that doesn’t mean I’m a complete sequel fan. I detest most of episode VIII, but when I rank my Star Wats movies, it’s tied at the bottom with Episode Ii, AOTC, equally as bad and disappointing . And that was done by Lucas. Back to Mando season 3. I found it disappointing .
And poorly written . I do love Bo-Katan , and have since the Clone Wats . She’s an incredible character. Loved watching her arc from then until now. I’m more than good with her being prominent . I like both Lizzo and Jack Black, but their cameos were stupid and misplaced. That episode was awful. This season really turned off my husband. Me too on some ways .
Tons and tons of Grogu merch being worn, carried, etc by people here. Bags, backpacks, shirts , etc so still very popular.
Boba fett is my second favorite character after Luke. I do not at all like how they developed his character in Book/ Boba Fett. Now, my favorite episode of Mando is the Tragedy. Where Fett shows up and kicks a$ like the old days. That’s the fett I want. Hope we get a season 2 to fix it
Andor is the best Star Wars since the original. We loved that series. I can’t even say enough great things about it and can’t wait for more. Wish there were doing 5 seasons.
I do agree that a big misstep was made here in Galaxy’s Edge choosing the Sequels as the focus. But it took years of concept art: planning, snd Force Awakens was a huge hit. I dont mind the theme here. I do wish they’d just retheme and . Have all of the time periods represented in different sections. Prequels all the way through the end. I know they’re attempting to duplicate what Universal did with the Wizarding World, (which is incredible and frankly much, much better done than Batuu,) with complete immersion , but Disney should just abandon this and represent all eras here. But it is still incredibly busy with fans of all ages, casual to hardcore, and probably not fans at all, just here with their families . I’ve found lots to love in all the series and movies, even if I don’t like the overall product. Lots of the smaller bits can be good, and I’m a fan of all eras . .

Sorry for the huge derailment here. I can only apologise profusely for that.

I agree with you that it’s been enjoyable to watch Bo-Katan’s continued journey into live action from the animated shows because I’m a huge fan of her as well and I’m very interested to see how she continues to evolve and works with the other clans and keeping them united going forward. I do feel like they’re leading to some kind of Bo and Din romance down the line with the “Mandalorians are stronger together” and I’m not really into that potentially happening but it wouldn’t be a reason for me to stop watching if that did end up happening eventually. I just wish that they’d at least have Bo acknowledge Satine’s existence and sacrifice at some point though. That’s something that I kept waiting for in her conversations with Din but never came.

It really is unfortunate and how TBOBF turned out and I do understand and feel sorry for both Tem, Ming Na and the people that really love Boba with what ended up being the finished product for that show and Disney’s fear of people not watching Mando S3 if Grogu wasn’t there.

And there’s a really simple fix that Disney could implement that still makes canonical sense for other characters from timelines being on Batuu but I doubt they’d do it since the want things to be focused on the ST. There’s already a Jedi Temple on Batuu because that’s where Rise is and all they’d need to do is say that Rey or the Resistance found a gateway to the World Between Worlds in there and boom! Easily explainable why Luke and co are now in Galaxy’s Edge.

 

[BrianL]

Sorry for the huge derailment here. I can only apologise profusely for that.

I agree with you that it’s been enjoyable to watch Bo-Katan’s continued journey into live action from the animated shows because I’m a huge fan of her as well and I’m very interested to see how she continues to evolve and works with the other clans and keeping them united going forward. I do feel like they’re leading to some kind of Bo and Din romance down the line with the “Mandalorians are stronger together” and I’m not really into that potentially happening but it wouldn’t be a reason for me to stop watching if that did end up happening eventually. I just wish that they’d at least have Bo acknowledge Satine’s existence and sacrifice at some point though. That’s something that I kept waiting for in her conversations with Din but never came.

It really is unfortunate and how TBOBF turned out and I do understand and feel sorry for both Tem, Ming Na and the people that really love Boba with what ended up being the finished product for that show and Disney’s fear of people not watching Mando S3 if Grogu wasn’t there.

And there’s a really simple fix that Disney could implement that still makes canonical sense for other characters from timelines being on Batuu but I doubt they’d do it since the want things to be focused on the ST. There’s already a Jedi Temple on Batuu because that’s where Rise is and all they’d need to do is say that Rey or the Resistance found a gateway to the World Between Worlds in there and boom! Easily explainable why Luke and co are now in Galaxy’s Edge.

Yeah, Bo annoys me with how she never talke about Satine. Then agian, if I had tried to lead a coup against my sister that eventually got her killed I wouldn't talk about it either!

For what it's worth, I enjoyed Book fo Boba Fett. I always thought he was an overrated character, but I like how he grew. The two episodes hat are basically Mando annoyed me the most.

I agree with Galaxy's Edge. Why does it need a "timeline" at all? It's a theme park! I'd ratehr it be called "Star Wars Land" and have a little of everything.

 

[leiaorgana]

Yeah, Bo annoys me with how she never talke about Satine. Then agian, if I had tried to lead a coup against my sister that eventually got her kille,d I wouldn't talk about it either!

Okay you got me there about the coup

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I liked Afterlife, but I will say it was VERY close to falling into the nostalgia fan-service trap with too much of that. Some dailogue was lifted right out of the original movie - they should have polished that up a bit. Of course you want to honor the legacy, but you also have to move forward. It's a good mobie, but not a GREAT movie, but a lot of fans treat it as such simply because it is so reverent. Too much reverence is a bad thing.

Bottom line is Afterlife was a commercial success in the face of a very damaged brand after 2016. It made money and revived a damaged brand. I agree that it got a little too close on the fan service though, it could have had a little less of that for my taste. Loved the little girl lead, I thought she was really incredible in the role. It is the 2nd best Ghostbusters movie to me after the original one.

 

[BrianL]

Bottom line is Afterlife was a commercial success in the face of a very damaged brand after 2016. It made money and revived a damaged brand. I agree that it got a little too close on the fan service though, it could have had a little less of that for my taste. Loved the little girl lead, I thought she was really incredible in the role. It is the 2nd best Ghostbusters movie to me after the original one.

The thing is though that it didn't actually make that much money either. It did $204M. Now, that's decent against the production budget (I see $75M but I am not sure if that includes marketing, but probably no more than $100M), but it's not exactly a blockbuster either. It was definitely well-received.

Now if they actually make a Star Wars movie for $100M, that would be awesome!

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The thing is though that it didn't actually make that much money either. It did $204M. Now, that's decent against the production budget (I see $75M but I am not sure if that includes marketing, but probably no more than $100M), but it's not exactly a blockbuster either. It was definitely well-received.

Now if they actually make a Star Wars movie for $100M, that would be awesome!

The reports I saw said it made a nice profit, but no specifics of exactly what it was. Pretty good data on 2016 losing upwards of 70 million dollars. So to turn it around like that was simply remarkable.

 

[BrianL]

Here is what I think Disney got wrong with the ST:
#1 = Really good movie, was really excited after this one with the mystery of Rey and getting to See my childhood hero in Luke. Thought Po and Finn had huge potential especially Finn with his conflicted story of being an ex Storm Trooper.

The reports I saw said it made a nice profit, but no specifics of exactly what it was. Pretty good data on 2016 losing upwards of 70 million dollars. So to turn it around like that was simply remarkable.

The rule of thumb is 2x the budget (including P&A) to "break-even" though sometimes now they say 2.5 (I don't buy it). So, if the movie's budget is $250M, the bare-minumum is $500M, but if it just makes that then nobody is happy. Above that is the gravy though, so the more past that it can go, the better. So, Afterlife would be considered a mild success - which admittedly is great compared to teh 2016 version.

 

[BrianL]

I found this interesting chart with Star Wars movies. I believe the production costs exclude P&A, which is sometimes hard to know (figure about $10M to as much as $30M). P&A figures can be hidden because sometimes marketing budgets are lumped together. Anyway, you can see that almost all of these movies were pretty healthy except for Solo. Any film in the I - IX saga would be considered a huge success for any studio.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I have always heard 2.5 of the production budget is a rule of thumb that studios like to hit at a minimum. Obviously this can change if they way overspend on Marketing. Disney is notorious for this occasionally on select films.

So Afterlife did 2.7 ($2.044 M on a $75M Budget)

2016 did 1.6 ($2.29 M on a $144M Budget)

I would say you might want to also look at DVD & VOD sales for Afterlife compared to 2016.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Absolutely bonkers what those original movies made based on their production budgets.

The force awakens was a Juggernaut no doubt, It was my favorite of the Disney stuff by a very large margin. I left that movie with so much hope for what was to come. I really liked Rogue One too. The last Jedi was straight trash and so was The Rise of Palpatine. I literally left The Last Jedi thinking I may never watch another Star Wars movie ever. After 40+ years of fandom.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Kinda scared to wade into all this. But I’m at Disney right now. Just back from a trip to Batuu this morning. Overheard comments sbout Rey included I can’t stand her to ooh there’s Rey and lots of younglings gathering around her , so excited to meet her. I love her character, and do look forward to more of her story and the new movie. Got her lightsaber for Christmas. . My husband is the opposite . He agrees with the criticism that she too easily came by the force. I don’t even know what Y’all meant by Mary Sue. Im old. Had to look it up. Now that doesn’t mean I’m a complete sequel fan. I detest most of episode VIII, but when I rank my Star Wats movies, it’s tied at the bottom with Episode Ii, AOTC, equally as bad and disappointing . And that was done by Lucas. Back to Mando season 3. I found it disappointing .
And poorly written . I do love Bo-Katan , and have since the Clone Wats . She’s an incredible character. Loved watching her arc from then until now. I’m more than good with her being prominent . I like both Lizzo and Jack Black, but their cameos were stupid and misplaced. That episode was awful. This season really turned off my husband. Me too on some ways .
Tons and tons of Grogu merch being worn, carried, etc by people here. Bags, backpacks, shirts , etc so still very popular.
Boba fett is my second favorite character after Luke. I do not at all like how they developed his character in Book/ Boba Fett. Now, my favorite episode of Mando is the Tragedy. Where Fett shows up and kicks a$ like the old days. That’s the fett I want. Hope we get a season 2 to fix it
Andor is the best Star Wars since the original. We loved that series. I can’t even say enough great things about it and can’t wait for more. Wish there were doing 5 seasons.
I do agree that a big misstep was made here in Galaxy’s Edge choosing the Sequels as the focus. But it took years of concept art: planning, snd Force Awakens was a huge hit. I dont mind the theme here. I do wish they’d just retheme and . Have all of the time periods represented in different sections. Prequels all the way through the end. I know they’re attempting to duplicate what Universal did with the Wizarding World, (which is incredible and frankly much, much better done than Batuu,) with complete immersion , but Disney should just abandon this and represent all eras here. But it is still incredibly busy with fans of all ages, casual to hardcore, and probably not fans at all, just here with their families . I’ve found lots to love in all the series and movies, even if I don’t like the overall product. Lots of the smaller bits can be good, and I’m a fan of all eras . .

Agreed that Disney was very foolish to limit themselves to only the Disney Sequels. I think there is plenty of room for all forms of Star Wars in the parks. Me and your husband could be buddies it sounds like, he sounds like a good dude!

 

[BrianL]

Absolutely bonkers what those original movies made based on their production budgets.

The force awakens was a Juggernaut no doubt, It was my favorite of the Disney stuff by a very large margin. I left that movie with so much hope for what was to come. I really liked Rogue One too. The last Jedi was straight trash and so was The Rise of Palpatine. I literally left The Last Jedi thinking I may never watch another Star Wars movie ever. After 40+ years of fandom.

First of all, I want to thank you for pulling back on the rhetoric and emotional arguments (though the term "straight trash" isn't exactly an objective critique). The conversation has gotten better. The next part is likely to get me into trouble, but I am genuinely curious about it.

You, like so many fans, obviously feel very passionatley about The Last Jedi. I don't share the opinion, but I struggle to understand why? All things being equal, I am a GenX Star Wars fan, around for the OT. Luke was one of my childhood heroes (though admittedly I was more of a Han guy). I don't feel like his actions in TLJ were out of line nor out of character -he didn't do anything Yoda didn't do. Considering that Luke was a heavily flawed character in the OT, why is it expected that he be so perfect in his later years? Without resorting to the usual emotional arguments and attacks, can you explain to me what was really so off-base about it?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

So putting them in order of their performance versus their budget calculations:

#1 = A New Hope at 70.49x budget
#2 = Empire Strikes Back at 29.91 budget
#3 = Return of the Jedi at 14.62x budget
#4 = Phantom Menace at 8.93x budget
#5 = Force Awakens at 8.44x budget
#6 = Revenge of the Sith at 7.51x budget
#7 = Attack of the Clones at 5.65x budget
#8 = Rogue One at 5.28x budget
#9 = The Last Jedi at 4.20x budget
#10 = The Rise of Skywalker at 3.91x budget
#11 = Solo at 1.43x budget

Pretty easy to see in that order why they slammed on the breaks after Solo.