Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

[disneynutz]

Remind me again why expansion is bad....? Because I'm loving my home resort, and I'm loving the fact that I've stayed at BLT on my points and am about to stay at GCV next month - two places I've always wanted to stay but never could justify on cash. What am I missing?

Expansion is OK if you take care of your other business first. Better communication to the members and an explanation of why things are done would be nice. Proper Mousekeeping and maintenance of the existing resorts should be a given and spend some money to improve the MS computer system. Members shouldn't have to call daily to check on their wait lists, put the wait lists online. Don't promise us an improved system and take years to deliver if ever.

Bill

 

[tjkraz]

...spend some money to improve the MS computer system. Members shouldn't have to call daily to check on their wait lists, put the wait lists online. Don't promise us an improved system and take years to deliver if ever.

Bill

Guess it depends upon whether you place greater fault on current management who has been somewhat slow in delivering upgrades or prior management who commissioned a flawed system to begin with and left us with a non-functional website as recently as 2004.

 

[disney54us]

Remind me again why expansion is bad....? Because I'm loving my home resort, and I'm loving the fact that I've stayed at BLT on my points and am about to stay at GCV next month - two places I've always wanted to stay but never could justify on cash. What am I missing?



It's not free for cash guests at WDW, so it's a nice perk - and it wasn't free until recently! Take a deep breath; it's okay to admit that some things have changed for the better under Mr. Lewis.

Why is expansion so bad???? Let me count the ways..... The downfall of DVC was with the over expansion and building of SSR. Yes I know many of you on here bought in during the SSR expansion. I can make my comments b/c though being a owner prior do have 2 add on contracts. Over built, and the start of mass merchandizing. They couldn't stop there they kept building and building. DVC greed came in.
The member opening of SSR was pathetic and they were not prepared or ready to open it when they did.
I am glad that you are enjoying your points, and can stay where you never could "justify" by paying cash. Yes that works for some, I guess for those of us who knew and appreciated the 'old days' it doesn't justify the money we spend monthly or for some maybe yearly on dues or for those who still have a mortgage they are paying on points.
It could be the same problem I have that free dining is offered in rooms that go for $79 p/night and I am hearing that some are being upgraded! No, not to moderate resorts! The same places we are forking over mant. dues to. while I come in having to pay full price for dining or DDP, while I am paying to own a piece of DVC and get a big 10 percent discount on AP passes:cheer2 yeah me.
I would love to see a survey/post for those who owned b/f JL and those after. I think the numbers would reveal the truth.

Free Internet. This is the 21st century, I'm suppose to give bow's to JL for implementing what ever roadside/beach MOTEL has, I don't think so. Again,
for my money your the Pres. of DVC you need to do better than that.

Exactly.

The negative comments about Internet service are exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. Jim Lewis didn't decide to charge all Walt Disney World resort guests for Internet--that decision was made by Jay Rasulo or someone working for him back when high-speed Internet was introduced.

The fact that DVC members get free service--or low-cost subsidized service--deserves some recognition. SOMEONE went to bat for DVC and made that happen. And if we're going to personally blame Jim Lewis for stopping DCL bookings, then it seems he should get the credit for all of the positive changes as well.

I completely understand that some changes are in the eye of the beholder. Things like reallocations and banking timeframes will impact different members in different ways. Not to diminish the feelings of those "hurt" by such changes but as TisBit pointed out, there could be just as many--if not more--who are in favor of the changes.

Regardless, the items I'm speaking of are improvements that are all but impossible to criticize. Things like upgrades to mattresses and sofabeds in the rooms. iHome radios. The fact that we have annual member cruises and Merry Mixers, both events that have proven EXTREMELY popular with members. The member website may still lack some critical functionality but it is FAR better than it was before Jim Lewis came on board. I'm sure I don't need to remind long-time members of the days when we all used to log onto the site using the password "welcomehome".

In recent years DVC members have gained discounts for MNSSHP and MVMCP. We have advance booking rights for the Food & Wine Fest events and discounts, too.

And, of course, the Annual Pass discount.

Program growth would seen to be a positive to me. Apparently not everyone agrees with that but I suspect the majority of members are glad that we have native resorts at the Contemporary, Disneyland and soon Hawaii.

I realize that it's human nature to complain about changes viewed as negative. But I do wonder how many people really consider the big picture when making glib statements about DVC and Jim Lewis in particular. Perhaps there really are members whose personal "con" list is longer than the "pro" list. However, I suspect they are well in the minority.

I'm not saying that every change has been positive. We used to use valet parking occasionally, although I don't consider it a huge loss. Banking window didn't bother me a bit. $95 booking fees--didn't buy DVC to go to any of those locations. AP discount far outweighs the previous LOS perk. Never had a dirty room assignment. Never got into our room after 4pm. We did have one major customer service issue during our last WDW stay but the resort staff+DVC handled it promptly and pro-offered appropriate compenastion. The Reallocations have been the changes that most hurt me personally but it's difficult to get too upset about that when I knew they were so sorely needed.

Those are some pretty minor blips in the road over 7 years of ownership and they pale in comparison to the list of perks and other additions over the years. Personally I feel that I am FAR better off today as a Disney Vacation Club member than I was 7 years ago. It's not even close.

Expansion is OK if you take care of your other business first. Better communication to the members and an explanation of why things are done would be nice. Proper Mousekeeping and maintenance of the existing resorts should be a given and spend some money to improve the MS computer system. Members shouldn't have to call daily to check on their wait lists, put the wait lists online. Don't promise us an improved system and take years to deliver if ever.

Bill

Maybe there are some who should start a "We Love Jim Lewis and What He Has Done For DVC" thread, the we can also have the "Does anyone Remember DVC before Jim Lewis". Just thinking about equal opportunity.
AP 10% I remember when DVC members received free passes.

 

[Mommb]

AP 10% I remember when DVC members received free passes.

I can't speak to whether things were better years ago because I've been a member for only about 3 1/2 years. However, I can say that the discount on annual passes is greater than 10%. An annual pass costs about $500 plus tax ($531.44 according to AllEarsNet.com) so a discount of $100 is close to 20%.

 

[gkrykewy]

It could be the same problem I have that free dining is offered in rooms that go for $79 p/night and I am hearing that some are being upgraded! No, not to moderate resorts! The same places we are forking over mant. dues to. while I come in having to pay full price for dining or DDP, while I am paying to own a piece of DVC and get a big 10 percent discount on AP passes:cheer2 yeah me.
I would love to see a survey/post for those who owned b/f JL and those after. I think the numbers would reveal the truth.

....

I remember when DVC members received free passes.

You seem to have a lot of frustration about this. Maybe you should seriously consider liquidating your points and calling it a day? I don't mean to be glib, but if your membership is causing you angst instead of happiness, then it doesn't make sense to be a member.

Re: upgrades to SSR, that's entirely up to CRO - they're using their own points inventory - and has nothing to do with Darth Jim.

Re: free passes, that was a limited time offer at the very beginning of DVC to help get the program off the ground, and is completely irrelevant to the present conversation. Before JL took over, there were full price APs, and now there are $100 off APs (which is more than 10% ). That's the only apt comparison.

Finally, you can rant all you want about SSR being too large, but again - nothing to do with Jim Lewis. It opened two years before he took over, and was planned two years before that.

This is what I mean by catch-all boogeyman - just plain weird. I half expect someone to blame Darth Jim for somehow going back in time and causing Walt's death.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I'm not saying that every change has been positive.

After reading this post, it's kind of hard to find the changes that you would say are negative. Which are they?

We used to use valet parking occasionally, although I don't consider it a huge loss. Banking window didn't bother me a bit. $95 booking fees--didn't buy DVC to go to any of those locations. AP discount far outweighs the previous LOS perk. Never had a dirty room assignment. Never got into our room after 4pm. We did have one major customer service issue during our last WDW stay but the resort staff+DVC handled it promptly and pro-offered appropriate compenastion. The Reallocations have been the changes that most hurt me personally but it's difficult to get too upset about that when I knew they were so sorely needed.

Are these the negative changes? Because you seem to explain away everyone of them as simply being not important to YOU( and thus not really negative at all) or as a necessary change so you can't really get upset about it.

Personally I feel that I am FAR better off today as a Disney Vacation Club member than I was 7 years ago. It's not even close.

And those are YOUR personal feelings. Please accept that others don't feel the same way as you and they are as RIGHT in their personal feelings as you are in yours.

 

[gkrykewy]

And those are YOUR personal feelings. Please accept that others don't feel the same way as you and they are as RIGHT in their personal feelings as you are in yours.

That's what happens in a discussion forum . I would assume you'd agree, though, since neither of your home resorts existed past 3 years ago . If you agree that their existence is a good thing, then you have to acknowledge that not *every* recent change has been a negative one.

 

[tjkraz]

After reading this post, it's kind of hard to find the changes that you would say are negative. Which are they?



Are these the negative changes? Because you seem to explain away everyone of them as simply being not important to YOU( and thus not really negative at all) or as a necessary change so you can't really get upset about it.



And those are YOUR personal feelings. Please accept that others don't feel the same way as you and they are as RIGHT in their personal feelings as you are in yours.

I do understand that some members have different (negative) feelings about changes like valet parking, banking rules and the $95 booking fees--just to name a few.

What disappoints me, though, is that there is so little acknowldgement of positive changes. If we're going to personally demonize Jim Lewis over the loss of free valet parking and DCL cruise limits, doesn't he deserve equal recognition for our PhotoPass discount or Internet service?

What about expanding hours at Member Services and the fact that we can actually see reservations and point balances on the member website? Lewis has publicly stated that other web features are coming including on-line bookings. But I'm sure he's entirely to blame for those features not being rolled-out sooner. After all, why would he choose to get it done in 2 months when it can be dragged-out over two years [/sarcasm]

A few years ago the point costs for cruising were reduced across the board. Seems like a pretty good thing but you don't hear many people talking about it.

How about changing the booking date from 11/7 months prior to departure to 11/7 from arrival? Although I'm sure there are still some folks who try to play that up as a bad thing.

Room occupancies have been expanded with the sleeper chair added for a 5th/9th guest where possible. Newer resorts have an extra bathroom and more luxurious furnishings.

Even little changes come to mind like excluding Disneyland resorts from the "can't book and stay in the last 4 months of Use Year" rule or single-day booking access through RCI/II.

Personally I was thrilled to see the new resort-specific patio furniture added to resorts rather than the WalMart-quality plastic crap they had been using for years. Anyone anxious to see the old stuff return?

I certainly understand that we all have our hot-button issues. But it is unfair to judge Jim Lewis solely upon cruise booking limits, point reallocations and valet parking. Some members may still judge themselves to be worse off in the grand scheme of things but I suspect they are far in the minority.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Before we get too far off track here folks, let's keep the topic at hand in mind - we are discussing the new change in Cruise bookings for DVC Members.

Thanks all!

 

[tjkraz]

Back on topic, DVC does currently have cabins available for 2010 and 2011 sailings on the Magic and Wonder:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/news-p...8-more-dcl-cabins-just-released-for-2010-2011

They are working to contact folks on the Call List and others wishing to cruise on points can also contact Member Services themselves. Everything is first-come, first-served.

It sounds like they expect additional dates to be released over time as the call list will remain.

Nothing on the Disney Dream, though.

This does put an interesting spin on the "who is to blame" argument. DVC isn't going to get into specifics and they certainly won't hang another Disney entity out to dry, but reading between the lines the original booking moratorium sounds more and more like DCL's doing.

If DVC were worried about taking on more Reservation Points, why are they now allowing additional bookings? And why just on the Magic and Wonder? DCL would have to be the one blocking members from the Dream.

Regardless, there are cabins available so now is the time to call if you're interested!

 

[TisBit]

And, back on topic with regards to positive vs negative changes with DCL bookings. I am sure that some type of balancing in the supply/demand field will happen (yes Dean, it might be the supply/demand of the rooms through CRO, but still supply/demand). If too many members are transferring out, the long time solution is more cabins through DCL or higher points costs to get those limited cabins. The easiest solution (and to address CRO supply/demand) most likely the answer will be raising point costs.

This will be perceived as a negative change by the vast majority, but it will quite the ones complaining about being at capacity....thus freeing up more cabins with points. To some it will be positive, to some negative....but I am sure it will go down in history as the great DVC/DCL debacle of 2010 and Jim Lewis did it.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Well, as you all know the Call List worked for me and some others here on the DIS, I would have to assume there are many other DVC Members out there who are not on the internet who may be finding success as well.

This is great news just posted by Tim about the expanded availability to the general DVC Membership. I had faith DVC would come through for us, and I have stated all along that this appeared to be a DCL rulling, not DVC.

Thanks for sharing here Tim!

 

[Brian Noble]

If DVC were worried about taking on more Reservation Points, why are they now allowing additional bookings? And why just on the Magic and Wonder? DCL would have to be the one blocking members from the Dream.

I can't say who's at fault. I can say the Dream is getting MUCH better fares than the older ship did on those same routes, and it is booking up fast.

 

[JimMIA]

To me, the "Who's at fault" question is only relevant if you believe that DVC and/or DCL made a sudden change in their policies and stopped cruise bookings for a year -- as was implied at the start of this adventure. I don't believe that.

The DVC representative I spoke to (who I am assured is a very reliable source of info on what really happened) denied that, saying that they simply ran out of availability for points cruises.

I have seen absolutely nothing factual or authoritative to contradict the availability explanation. It also bears repeating that this is certainly not a NEW problem. The same thing happened in 2004, but for a shorter period.

We can speculate all we want, but if the availability issue is the culprit, there is really nothing wrong here.

And the big mystery of availability suddenly appearing? My guess (and now I'm speculating) is that DVC did what any smart business would do. They went to DCL and asked for additional inventory. And DCL did what any smart business would do -- "Sure, you can have more cabins on the Magic and Wonder, but not on the Dream because those are going like hotcakes at very high cash prices."

Did this situation adversely affect some members? Of course it did, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong any more than there would be something wrong if I called today to book BCV for F&W and couldn't get in.

 

[JeffR]

Since 1999 I had never been even a little enticed to add points, until I got the Hawaii mailing (still sitting out and awaiting discussions with extended family members). But the higher points and now this have sealed the deal. I bought Disney because they were different, and now that they're not, won't risk adding points in a company conducting themselves this way.

At least my decision is easier now.

 

[tjkraz]

To me, the "Who's at fault" question is only relevant if you believe that DVC and/or DCL made a sudden change in their policies and stopped cruise bookings for a year -- as was implied at the start of this adventure. I don't believe that.

The DVC representative I spoke to (who I am assured is a very reliable source of info on what really happened) denied that, saying that they simply ran out of availability for points cruises.

I have seen absolutely nothing factual or authoritative to contradict the availability explanation. It also bears repeating that this is certainly not a NEW problem. The same thing happened in 2004, but for a shorter period.

We can speculate all we want, but if the availability issue is the culprit, there is really nothing wrong here.

And the big mystery of availability suddenly appearing? My guess (and now I'm speculating) is that DVC did what any smart business would do. They went to DCL and asked for additional inventory. And DCL did what any smart business would do -- "Sure, you can have more cabins on the Magic and Wonder, but not on the Dream because those are going like hotcakes at very high cash prices."

Did this situation adversely affect some members? Of course it did, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong any more than there would be something wrong if I called today to book BCV for F&W and couldn't get in.

I agree, Jim. Everything you have said is consistent with what I heard from DVC reps from the start.

But even those who suggest that DVC is being dishonest would seem to be out of ammo. DVC did not unilaterally decide to stop accepting DCL reservations. Their hand was forced and they have spent the last week accommodating members as best they can.

 

[lilpooh108]

Back on topic, DVC does currently have cabins available for 2010 and 2011 sailings on the Magic and Wonder:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/news-p...8-more-dcl-cabins-just-released-for-2010-2011

They are working to contact folks on the Call List and others wishing to cruise on points can also contact Member Services themselves. Everything is first-come, first-served.

It sounds like they expect additional dates to be released over time as the call list will remain.

Nothing on the Disney Dream, though.

This does put an interesting spin on the "who is to blame" argument. DVC isn't going to get into specifics and they certainly won't hang another Disney entity out to dry, but reading between the lines the original booking moratorium sounds more and more like DCL's doing.

If DVC were worried about taking on more Reservation Points, why are they now allowing additional bookings? And why just on the Magic and Wonder? DCL would have to be the one blocking members from the Dream.

Regardless, there are cabins available so now is the time to call if you're interested!

Do you know what sailings have additional cabins added?

 

[speicher46]

This is really disappointing. We have taken eight Disney Cruises with our DVC points. Our family added on another 400 points a few years ago just for the purpose of cruises.In my opinion it was one of the best features of Disney Vacation Club. I hope someone explains this action very quickly. This is the first time in 12 years that I have been unhappy with Disney Vacation Club.

 

[Mineu]

Hello: I'm happy to say that I have received multiple calls from DVC-but am still without a points reservation Apparently the 11B onboard offer is still not in the system-so their technical department is trying to fix it. Wondering if I should just abandon our cabins and book something else-will they stop booking points reservations again? I do have to say though that the leadership team members making the calls have been very nice and eager to help--just seeing that 407 number on my phone has me jumping out of the shower, hanging up on friends and smiling from ear to ear-just can't seem to get that category booked though... So, should I give up my 11B sideways side by side cabins on deck 6 and book something else or do you think I am safe waiting... Thanks!

 

[JimMIA]

This is really disappointing. We have taken eight Disney Cruises with our DVC points. Our family added on another 400 points a few years ago just for the purpose of cruises.In my opinion it was one of the best features of Disney Vacation Club. I hope someone explains this action very quickly. This is the first time in 12 years that I have been unhappy with Disney Vacation Club.

There has been an explanation from DVC, but it's hard to find in this thread because we keep wandering WAY off topic from time to time.

The explanation is that they have a certain amount of cruise availability for each year, and all of the availability was used because of the excitement over the new ship and new itineraries. In one of the conversations with a DVC rep, one of our members was told that there was not a max for each sailing, just a max for each fiscal year. So when that max was reached there was nothing to book for that time period -- just like resort availability.

So, in essence -- despite the title of this thread and some early fears -- it does not appear that anything unusual happened. They ran out of availability. That's not a NEW phenomenon -- they ran out previously in 2004 for a four-month period.

I should also add that -- rampant speculation notwithstanding (including mine) -- every scrap of information we have so far is consistent with the availability explanation, and noone has offered any different factual, authoritative explanation.

Unfortunately, some of our members got caught in the middle of this. Some were trying to change cruise dates; others were trying to convert cash reservations to point reservations. DVC is working very hard to try to resolve those problems, and they have fixed most of them that we know about. Actually, Mineu's situation is the only one I know of that is still pending.