Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

[Dean]

Dean: Maybe. But, right now DCL is literally rolling in money. Any negotiated long-term lease deal this year is not likely to be favorable to DVC.

Obviously it'd take time to work out any deal and it'd have to either be a long term arrangement or at a time when DCL needed the influx. I can't imagine it being any more unfavorable than the DCL charts have been over the years.

 

[JimMIA]

Just a further update that I did hear from a DVC manager this afternoon and I converted over 2 of the 8 cabins we have booked on the 2/20 Dream from cash to points. That used up all of our current use year points and some of next year's points. It took awhile, but they were very nice about it. So it did happen.

Great. Congratulations!

 

[danandnan]

Obviously it'd take time to work out any deal and it'd have to either be a long term arrangement or at a time when DCL needed the influx. I can't imagine it being any more unfavorable than the DCL charts have been over the years.

I don't mean to sound out of line all of you have good ideas but as they say your beating your head against the wall. When its all said and done DVC and DCL will work it out.

 

[JimMIA]

I don't necessarily agree with your logic here.

If a cruise costs 300 points and I own 400, that means 300 points worth of rooms will be given to CRO and I use the other 100 for DVC villas. If they raise the cruise price to 400 points, all 400 points' worth are going to CRO. The net result is still the same--400 points' worth of rooms taken out of commission. From an availability standpoint, the only difference is that I get some villa access when costs are lower. Inventory for the rest of the membership is unchanged.

I think you're only looking at half the equation, Tim.

You are only looking at the micro situation of your one, single transaction instead of the overall mass of several hundred thousand owners. I'm looking at the overall picture -- sort of an "I have seen the big picture...and it's UGLY!" kind of thing.

Let's say that DVC currently permits 10% of the points inventory to be used for DCL. (I think that's a ludicrous percentage, but just for example...). For the purposes of discussion, let's say they reduce that to 8%, keeping the points the same. That's a net reduction in points availability being used for DCL exchanges (20% reduction, actually), and a net increase in resort availability.

Yes, you get your cruise for the same number of points as this year and you have 100 points left over, but in the broader context, 20% fewer people cruise and there is a 2% increase in resort availability.

DVC still has a viable cruise program perk, they have 20% fewer points to convert to cash, and there is more villa inventory for members who don't want to cruise. The only downside is that some members who want to cruise would not be able to that particular year...which happens every year anyway.

 

[disney54us]

They are part of the same organization when it benefits them. It has always been this way but recently more competetive between divisions of Disney.

I guess it is all about the bottom line.

I just feel for the new members who trust the Disney brand, would probably shy away from other timeshares, and are buying something they truly don't understand.

I know, I know, they should educate themselves. But there was a time, and yes I am getting old, that Disney stood for honestly and intregity in business and you could take them at their word without having to go to an outside source to verify the info they give.

The supervisor was very clear in his explanation. Particularly when I told him who I was and that this was to be posted on our website today.

It is a new policy, and it started today. The "allotment" of cabins to DVC members has always been in effect. That is not a new policy. The new policy today stated there would be no new bookings nor rebookings for any cruise date through at least September 2011, as of today.

Perhaps you when you called DVC, they were either uninformed, or more disturbingly trying to "sugar coat" the information. But, I am here with two staterooms totalling 1500 points that I cannot rebook to any other cruise date.

I asked the Supervisor what was I to do with 1500 reservation points when I cancel, and if I cannot rebook another Disney Cruise? He had no answer for me...

I'm glad everything worked out for you. 1500 pts to sit in reservation pts, way to much.

Too bad we can't tell member services that if we can't use our points until 2011-we won't pay our note until 2011

Correct. There absolutely are guides who are honest and up front about the benefits and caveats about buying into DVC. We're very lucky to have one those guides in Ron Brumbaugh. Ron has always been honest when we've asked questions and has never tried to mislead us.

Unfortunately though, there are a *lot* of younger guides who will tell you anything to get you to sell. I actually got into a disagreement with a guide in the middle of a sales presentation on a Disney cruise several years ago. He was telling the whole room about how it makes zero difference where you buy as you'll never have any trouble getting into the resort you want. As I stood up and called him on it, he proceeded to insist that it made zero difference. I then pointed out that CarolAnnC actually had to purchase a BWV resale even after she already owned 500 points elsewhere just so she could get into the BWV after trying unsuccessfully for two years.

I know he wasn't happy with me, but it just really ticked me off that he held his stance and was trying to mislead potential new buyers.

Can't speak of the others but we have been members since 97 and Ron has been our guide from our first contract to our last. He has never been anything but honest. Guess we lucked out, though it should be that way with all the guides.

I, personally, think there is a big difference in the guides that worked for DVC in the early years. We had one of the best as far as I could tell. She laid it all out on the table, told us the honest truth about what we could get and what we couldn't get. Unfortunately, she decided to cut back on her work and we were reassigned. We have only had one contact with our new guide. And that's really not a problem since we will never buy anymore points.

But we hear so many stories from other members who were told X and were informed on the DIS by members who know that X just isn't possible or likely. I personally heard a guide tell potential members an untruth and when I asked him about it, he assured me that I was wrong and not him. However, twenty minutes later he came quietly up to me at the model that I was actually correct about the situation.

Sales aren't going as well as DVC would like. Guides are merely timeshare salespeople who are going to make sure the guest hears what they want to hear. And as long as it isn't in writing, no harm done. That's disturbing and disappointing.

DVC has gone downhill in the past five or so years. About the time Eagle Pines was dropped and SSR was started (I do like SSR, though, it's a great resort - so no bashing of SSR). But there was a twist to how members were treated. No longer a "club", now just a mealticket. Little things like Vacation Magic (all about DVC) suddenly became Disney Files (a magazine for DVC members about Disney with very little about DVC).

And if I'm not wrong, about the time Jim Lewis came onboard as DVC VP and General Manager. By the time he became President of DVC, it became obvious to this member that the times were changing.

I'm with Sammie on this one. Jim Lewis may have made DVC Disney's not so best kept secret, but he has forgotten about the members along the way.

just perfect, think you covered it!

True, and my sincerest apologies to those agents that are extremely forthcoming. It was bad form to paint all of them in the same light if I did that.

I am glad to know there are some still around that are not so pressured to make a sale that they would skirt around the truth.

There was a time though that there were none that would do that. That has changed, and that is fact. I have personally witnessed it and others have too.

As to being present, I trust what CarolAnnC has reported. I know she would not mislead anyone especially when stating to the supervisor she talked with her intentions of sharing it here.

Actually my comments have very little emotion in them. I am not blinded by the Disney magic many are, I call it as I see it. My experiences might be different from others and I can respect that.

No one was a bigger Disney/DVC supporter than I was for years. But irregardless of that I will not excuse them when I see differently.

I am not emotional at all about unclean room, it is what it is. Dirty.

Maybe a huge difference in the way we see things is you have been a member for 7 years, you did not experience it in the beginning, to know how much it truly has changed.



what DVC villa is larger than OKW, as to luxurious, I think it has gone down hill compared to OKW when it first opened. When OKW first opened it was truly as luxurious as any deluxe resort. Now when they rehab they paint over furniture, give us laminate flooring and towels you can easily find at any value resort, sheets included. They built a resort that has been flagged by JL himself as the flagship of DVC and within a year it looks 5 years old.

When they rehabbed the BC resort rooms they actually improved them but that has not been the case with the OKW rehabs. It was cosmetic at best and not so attractive one either.

OKW being our first couple of contracts and honestly our favorite, it is sad that in recent years I have felt that they are leaving the best behind as the forgotten one.

:

However, I do find some posters' viewing Jim Lewis as some sort of catch-all boogeyman to be just plain weird.

catch-all boogeyman??????

Jim Lewis is the President of DVC, I think many posters have seen changes since he has been President of DVC and not for the better. The buck stops with him. As President if things were changing for the better he would be getting positive feedback. catch all? when you are the man/women in charge, in the end it falls on you.

 

[Dean]

I don't mean to sound out of line all of you have good ideas but as they say your beating your head against the wall. When its all said and done DVC and DCL will work it out.

Taken that way, most thread's here are dead ends, certainly they're going to do what they're going to do. They have knowledge of the inner workings of the systems including the number of points exchanged and how the points translate to $$$. We may never know the specifics of the change last week. My guess is they hadn't anticipated enforcing the normal exchange limitations that we knew were already in place then had to do so on short notice at the direction of the brass.

 

[danandnan]

No points availablity on DCL through September 2011





Written by Tim Krasniewski | August 23, 2010


http://dvcnews.com/index.php/news-p...ints-availablity-on-dcl-through-septmber-2011

Using Disney Vacation Club points for sailings on Disney Cruise Line is an appealing alternative to resort stays. However late last week Disney Cruise Line apparently ran out of cabin space for DVC members.
Disney Cruise Line bookings have always been subject to availability with only a portion of cabin inventory accessible by members wishing to use their points. But on Friday August 20, Member Services Cast Members informed callers that cruise availability had suddenly gone from limited to nonexistent for all sailings through September 2011.
Multiple calls to Member Services yielded various reasons for these the change with the primary inference being that Disney Cruise Line had prompted the move by slashing the inventory allocated to DVC.
Some Cast Members are reporting that Disney Vacation Club members will no longer be able to convert a cash booking to DVC points. Frequent cruisers will commonly place a deposit on a future cruise in order to secure onboard re-booking discounts. Closer to the sailing date, the member will then work through Member Services to pay for all or part of the cruise using DVC points. This process may be eliminated or severely curtailed in the future.
Member Services is reportedly maintaining a "call list"--similar to a wait list--which is used to contact interested cruisers as availability opens up between now and September '11.
There is no word on how cruise availabilty may be impacted beyond September 2011.
A Disney Vacation Club spokesperson has not yet responded to a request for comments regarding thi

 

[Anthony1971]

I wonder if pricing had any influence..
I booked a 4 day cruise on the Dream for May 2011 a few months back I paid part cash and part points as the rate I got form DVC was a little over a 100 a person cheaper then DCL.

 

[FigmentLady]

The upsetting point to me again, is we now have a certain type of sales agent that will say anything to get a sale.

Ontariomonkey was told by DVC that using DVC points for a cruise was as good as paying cash. If there was availbility with cash, there would be availbility to book with points. That is not true.

I seriously doubt you will find a agent now that will tell you that perks can be removed at any time without notice, that you will experience difficulty at times booking out of your home resort at 7 months and even possibly experience difficulty at 11 months for certain situations.

They are so desperate to make sales they will promise you the moon and not worry about the reality. They are using these perks to sell DVC knowing that at anytime they can be gone.

It is sleezy and I don't care how anyone tries to sugar coat it.

As I have said before it is not what they are doing, it is how they do it now that bothers me and I fault the current management for this sales focused situation.

People buying into DVC should not have to learn about the real use of the program the hard way. Agents when asked specific questions should be truthful and forthcoming, not promising things they can not guarantee.

My guide was great when it came to this and told us about the perks but kept emphasizing that those are not the reason to buy. She did mention that they could change at any time with or without notice and was anything but sleazy.

As with any company I am sure there are good employees and "bad" employees but to say you won't find a guide who will tell you the truth is just silly to me. There are good guides out there.

 

[Zoom]

ANOTHER SUCCESS Story here.....

I just got off the phone with DVC MS (i asked if he's with the leadership team and he said no he's just a regular MS rep whose just doing the "call list"). I was surprised to get a call since i only called them once (Aug 21st) and asked to be added on the "call list", My DH is actually about to send an email to the leadership team today regarding the issue and hoping that they will let us convert our ressie. Like the others, i also have a Cash Reservation thru DCL and NOW converted to points. Well actually its a combo of Points and Cash (i paid 1 Adult in cash and points for 1 AD and 1CH). The rep said something opened up on my sailing that's why he's calling and see if i'm still interested of booking with my points. It's for June '11 MED sailing. Sorry I didn't ask anything regarding what's going on, i was just happy that they let us convert our ressie. Now i can book my airfare!!!

 

[tjkraz]

Let's say that DVC currently permits 10% of the points inventory to be used for DCL. (I think that's a ludicrous percentage, but just for example...). For the purposes of discussion, let's say they reduce that to 8%, keeping the points the same. That's a net reduction in points availability being used for DCL exchanges (20% reduction, actually), and a net increase in resort availability.

Yes, you get your cruise for the same number of points as this year and you have 100 points left over, but in the broader context, 20% fewer people cruise and there is a 2% increase in resort availability.

DVC still has a viable cruise program perk, they have 20% fewer points to convert to cash, and there is more villa inventory for members who don't want to cruise. The only downside is that some members who want to cruise would not be able to that particular year...which happens every year anyway.

I agree that limiting cruise inventory is one viable option. What I disagreed with is this statement:

I'm personally incliined to think DVC will not raise cruise points costs much going forward, because more points exchanged for cruises diminishes resort availability and creates more pressure to convert points to cash.

Raising prices will curb demand and also give DVC more Reservation Points to cover their CRO costs.

Some commodities will increase in value in relation to their scarcity. But I wouldn't put CRO DVC villas in that category. If DVC is concerned with being able to recoup enough dollars from CRO to cover the cost of members cruising on points, there's no harm in having even more points to turn over to CRO.

Jim Lewis is the President of DVC, I think many posters have seen changes since he has been President of DVC and not for the better. The buck stops with him. As President if things were changing for the better he would be getting positive feedback. catch all? when you are the man/women in charge, in the end it falls on you.

That's very true. However the one observation I will make is that I think members are very quick to throw blame in his direction while refusing to acknowledge positive changes to the program.

 

[Scoobypop]

I didn't read every single page but I read several so sorry if this has already been answered. I just called and put myself on the "call list" for a sailing next April. I think I've read that if ANY opening becomes available on ANY cruise, then that would open a slot and they'd call the next in line, but I asked exactly how that works and mentioned it was "on the message boards but I didn't understand completely". He told me that if anything opens up on the specific cruise I put myself on the list for they'd call. Does this sound right, or did people get further going to supervisors and such? The man was so nice and knew exactly what I meant about the call list so I stopped there. Thanks.

 

[Petraman]

I didn't read every single page but I read several so sorry if this has already been answered. I just called and put myself on the "call list" for a sailing next April. I think I've read that if ANY opening becomes available on ANY cruise, then that would open a slot and they'd call the next in line, but I asked exactly how that works and mentioned it was "on the message boards but I didn't understand completely". He told me that if anything opens up on the specific cruise I put myself on the list for they'd call. Does this sound right, or did people get further going to supervisors and such? The man was so nice and knew exactly what I meant about the call list so I stopped there. Thanks.

Well, the one I spoke to said ANY... but then again, as with every single step of this fiasco, different people are being told different things. The good news seems to be there are several people already that have successfully booked a cruise from the wait list, so here's a little to help your wish come true!

 

[TisBit]

That's very true. However the one observation I will make is that I think members are very quick to throw blame in his direction while refusing to acknowledge positive changes to the program.

This is very much the case. The one perk everyone keeps going back to that was removed recently was valet parking. This was a perk that most members didn't use and the ones that did probably didn't use it every day. It also wasn't necessarily free, unless they stiffed the guys on a tip.

But, a perk that was added just before the removal of valet parking was free internet. A perk that most DVC owners will use, even if they weren't willing to pay for it before. This is a perk that most people will use every day of their trip, so at a cost of $10 a day, it is quite a nice perk.

If I had to choose free internet or free valet, internet will win every time. They have made some positive changes in the last few years, but they have also made some negative ones. In the end I think it has become just about a wash. The three biggest negatives that generated the biggest response on the boards in the last couple of years have been: valet parking, glassware removed from studios (which was resolved at most resorts and is just about forgotten today) and now the issues with DCL....which seem to be getting addressed as much as they can. I did not include point reallocation, mainly because for everyone it hurt, there seemed to be another that it helped, so it was a mixed bag....just the ones that it hurt were much more vocal (and the addition to be able to rent a couple points from disney helped some of these members out that felt left short, so that could be a perk added).

The DCL issues are about the same as a the point reallocation, it is a supply/demand and regardless of how people are feel, it is a byproduct of DVC and how it is designed to operate.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...That's very true. However the one observation I will make is that I think members are very quick to throw blame in his direction while refusing to acknowledge positive changes to the program.

Positive is in the eye of the beholder. Annual pass discount was nice. Free internet was nice. Too much building and expansion was not. Banking rules change was not. Failing to enforce DVC policy is not.

 

[Dean]

The DCL issues are about the same as a the point reallocation, it is a supply/demand and regardless of how people are feel, it is a byproduct of DVC and how it is designed to operate.

In a sense but really less so. Technically, legally, ethically even practically they could scrap the entire program tomorrow with little ramifications if they so chose. There's be a small but vocal group of complainers but that's about it. And while there is a certain amount of supply and demand, it's really limited by the supply/demand of the villas used for rentals to recoup the cash and not as much the supply/demand related directly to the cruises. I think you'll see that change with a higher points costs on the next cruise chart though.

 

[Sammie]

My guide was great when it came to this and told us about the perks but kept emphasizing that those are not the reason to buy. She did mention that they could change at any time with or without notice and was anything but sleazy.

As with any company I am sure there are good employees and "bad" employees but to say you won't find a guide who will tell you the truth is just silly to me. There are good guides out there.

I have already stated that there are some good guides and that my previous statement should have stated some. Post # 223.

Please read all of the comments, Thanks.

 

[disney54us]

That's very true. However the one observation I will make is that I think members are very quick to throw blame in his direction while refusing to acknowledge positive changes to the program.

Well that would depend on how each of us see positive vs negative. Having been a member b/f J and seeing what has happen since. I see many negatives and things that have gone down hill. Again, in the end he is the President of DVC and it all falls on him and his name. Why do you think they pay him all that money? For my money I would like someone with a better effect.

Positive is in the eye of the beholder. Annual pass discount was nice. Free internet was nice. Too much building and expansion was not. Banking rules change was not. Failing to enforce DVC policy is not.

Once again.

Have to say as far as free internet there is not a value/moderate hotel/motel that does not advertise free internet as you drive up and down the coast. To me this would be a given in the 21st century considering I could pull into any Hotel/motel Holiday Inn and get that. I think it is now beyond a perk, but a given just like we expect clean sheets.
We do still get clean sheets, right?????

 

[gkrykewy]

Remind me again why expansion is bad....? Because I'm loving my home resort, and I'm loving the fact that I've stayed at BLT on my points and am about to stay at GCV next month - two places I've always wanted to stay but never could justify on cash. What am I missing?

Have to say as far as free internet there is not a value/moderate hotel/motel that does not advertise free internet as you drive up and down the coast. To me this would be a given in the 21st century considering I could pull into any Hotel/motel Holiday Inn and get that. I think it is now beyond a perk, but a given just like we expect clean sheets.
We do still get clean sheets, right?????

It's not free for cash guests at WDW, so it's a nice perk - and it wasn't free until recently! Take a deep breath; it's okay to admit that some things have changed for the better under Mr. Lewis.

 

[tjkraz]

It's not free for cash guests at WDW, so it's a nice perk.

Exactly.

The negative comments about Internet service are exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. Jim Lewis didn't decide to charge all Walt Disney World resort guests for Internet--that decision was made by Jay Rasulo or someone working for him back when high-speed Internet was introduced.

The fact that DVC members get free service--or low-cost subsidized service--deserves some recognition. SOMEONE went to bat for DVC and made that happen. And if we're going to personally blame Jim Lewis for stopping DCL bookings, then it seems he should get the credit for all of the positive changes as well.

I completely understand that some changes are in the eye of the beholder. Things like reallocations and banking timeframes will impact different members in different ways. Not to diminish the feelings of those "hurt" by such changes but as TisBit pointed out, there could be just as many--if not more--who are in favor of the changes.

Regardless, the items I'm speaking of are improvements that are all but impossible to criticize. Things like upgrades to mattresses and sofabeds in the rooms. iHome radios. The fact that we have annual member cruises and Merry Mixers, both events that have proven EXTREMELY popular with members. The member website may still lack some critical functionality but it is FAR better than it was before Jim Lewis came on board. I'm sure I don't need to remind long-time members of the days when we all used to log onto the site using the password "welcomehome".

In recent years DVC members have gained discounts for MNSSHP and MVMCP. We have advance booking rights for the Food & Wine Fest events and discounts, too.

And, of course, the Annual Pass discount.

Program growth would seen to be a positive to me. Apparently not everyone agrees with that but I suspect the majority of members are glad that we have native resorts at the Contemporary, Disneyland and soon Hawaii.

I realize that it's human nature to complain about changes viewed as negative. But I do wonder how many people really consider the big picture when making glib statements about DVC and Jim Lewis in particular. Perhaps there really are members whose personal "con" list is longer than the "pro" list. However, I suspect they are well in the minority.

I'm not saying that every change has been positive. We used to use valet parking occasionally, although I don't consider it a huge loss. Banking window didn't bother me a bit. $95 booking fees--didn't buy DVC to go to any of those locations. AP discount far outweighs the previous LOS perk. Never had a dirty room assignment. Never got into our room after 4pm. We did have one major customer service issue during our last WDW stay but the resort staff+DVC handled it promptly and pro-offered appropriate compenastion. The Reallocations have been the changes that most hurt me personally but it's difficult to get too upset about that when I knew they were so sorely needed.

Those are some pretty minor blips in the road over 7 years of ownership and they pale in comparison to the list of perks and other additions over the years. Personally I feel that I am FAR better off today as a Disney Vacation Club member than I was 7 years ago. It's not even close.