Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

[Deb & Bill]

I have no problem being critical when there is adequate evidence to support such criticism. I also make it a point to offer balanced criticism--giving credit for positive changes as well as deriding the negative.

That said, it's sad to see your opinions increasingly tainted by emotion rather than fact. This forum has 10+ years worth of history documenting mis-steps by DVC sales agents and yet your comments begin with "we now have a certain type of sales agent..."

One poster comes forward with obvious misunderstadings about how DCL bookings occur. Neither of us were present. We have no idea what questions were asked nor what answers were provided. And yet that's reason enough to brand every DVC sales rep as "sleezy" and infer that they are all desperate and dishonest??

Disappointing.

I, personally, think there is a big difference in the guides that worked for DVC in the early years. We had one of the best as far as I could tell. She laid it all out on the table, told us the honest truth about what we could get and what we couldn't get. Unfortunately, she decided to cut back on her work and we were reassigned. We have only had one contact with our new guide. And that's really not a problem since we will never buy anymore points.

But we hear so many stories from other members who were told X and were informed on the DIS by members who know that X just isn't possible or likely. I personally heard a guide tell potential members an untruth and when I asked him about it, he assured me that I was wrong and not him. However, twenty minutes later he came quietly up to me at the model that I was actually correct about the situation.

Sales aren't going as well as DVC would like. Guides are merely timeshare salespeople who are going to make sure the guest hears what they want to hear. And as long as it isn't in writing, no harm done. That's disturbing and disappointing.

DVC has gone downhill in the past five or so years. About the time Eagle Pines was dropped and SSR was started (I do like SSR, though, it's a great resort - so no bashing of SSR). But there was a twist to how members were treated. No longer a "club", now just a mealticket. Little things like Vacation Magic (all about DVC) suddenly became Disney Files (a magazine for DVC members about Disney with very little about DVC).

And if I'm not wrong, about the time Jim Lewis came onboard as DVC VP and General Manager. By the time he became President of DVC, it became obvious to this member that the times were changing.

I'm with Sammie on this one. Jim Lewis may have made DVC Disney's not so best kept secret, but he has forgotten about the members along the way.

 

[tjkraz]

But we hear so many stories from other members who were told X and were informed on the DIS by members who know that X just isn't possible or likely.

I agree. My point is that the same thing was happening 10+ years ago just as it does today.

My Guide has always been very up-front and I have met at least a couple of other stand-up Guides over the years. It's reassuring to hear that others have had similar experiences.

Yet it's sad to see the entire staff universally condemned for the (apparent) actions of a few.

DVC has gone downhill in the past five or so years. About the time Eagle Pines was dropped and SSR was started (I do like SSR, though, it's a great resort - so no bashing of SSR). But there was a twist to how members were treated. No longer a "club", now just a mealticket. Little things like Vacation Magic (all about DVC) suddenly became Disney Files (a magazine for DVC members about Disney with very little about DVC).

And if I'm not wrong, about the time Jim Lewis came onboard as DVC VP and General Manager. By the time he became President of DVC, it became obvious to this member that the times were changing.

I'm with Sammie on this one. Jim Lewis may have made DVC Disney's not so best kept secret, but he has forgotten about the members along the way.

We've been members for 7+ years and honestly I don't feel any different today than I did the day I bought. At least not in terms of how DVC regards me personally.

As for material things, I think member perks, program options, guest room design and guest room furnishings are all areas that have improved in the last 7 years. Things like the annual Member Mixers and Cruises have been added, guest rooms are larger and more luxurious, mattresses, sofabeds, appliances, countertops & cookware are all items that have been improved. We've gained access to meal programs, ticket discounts including the APs, longer Member Services hours, a website that actually has some useful features, etc.

Yes there have been declines in other areas--valet parking, the RCI switch, housekeeping and point reallocations are sore spots with some. But I still see the program as a clear net gain in our years as owners.

Obviously I'm not trying to tell you how you should feel. If JL doesn't give you the warm fuzzies like other previous DVC leaders, so be it. But in terms of things that we can truly measure and analyze, I'm hard pressed to buy into the idea that DVC members--as a whole--are worse off than they were 5-10 years ago. Therefore I really don't care how JL regards me personally or what his motives may be as long as the program continues to deliver what is promised--with a fair amount of perks as icing on the cake.

 

[Sammie]

I have no problem being critical when there is adequate evidence to support such criticism. I also make it a point to offer balanced criticism--giving credit for positive changes as well as deriding the negative.

That said, it's sad to see your opinions increasingly tainted by emotion rather than fact. This forum has 10+ years worth of history documenting mis-steps by DVC sales agents and yet your comments begin with "we now have a certain type of sales agent..."

One poster comes forward with obvious misunderstadings about how DCL bookings occur. Neither of us were present. We have no idea what questions were asked nor what answers were provided. And yet that's reason enough to brand every DVC sales rep as "sleezy" and infer that they are all desperate and dishonest??

Disappointing.

True, and my sincerest apologies to those agents that are extremely forthcoming. It was bad form to paint all of them in the same light if I did that.

I am glad to know there are some still around that are not so pressured to make a sale that they would skirt around the truth.

There was a time though that there were none that would do that. That has changed, and that is fact. I have personally witnessed it and others have too.

As to being present, I trust what CarolAnnC has reported. I know she would not mislead anyone especially when stating to the supervisor she talked with her intentions of sharing it here.

Actually my comments have very little emotion in them. I am not blinded by the Disney magic many are, I call it as I see it. My experiences might be different from others and I can respect that.

No one was a bigger Disney/DVC supporter than I was for years. But irregardless of that I will not excuse them when I see differently.

I am not emotional at all about unclean room, it is what it is. Dirty.

Maybe a huge difference in the way we see things is you have been a member for 7 years, you did not experience it in the beginning, to know how much it truly has changed.

guest rooms are larger and more luxurious

what DVC villa is larger than OKW, as to luxurious, I think it has gone down hill compared to OKW when it first opened. When OKW first opened it was truly as luxurious as any deluxe resort. Now when they rehab they paint over furniture, give us laminate flooring and towels you can easily find at any value resort, sheets included. They built a resort that has been flagged by JL himself as the flagship of DVC and within a year it looks 5 years old.

When they rehabbed the BC resort rooms they actually improved them but that has not been the case with the OKW rehabs. It was cosmetic at best and not so attractive one either.

 

[Dean]

As a group, the DVC sales staff are the best in the business, still, they are timeshare sales staff. I think we have seen more issues over the last 2 years from a sales standpoint but there have always been issues, I personally had one in 1994. Overall though I think the misinformation from guides is more related to lack of knowledge of non DVC options than purposefully misleading potential buyers.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...Yet it's sad to see the entire staff universally condemned for the (apparent) actions of a few.....We've been members for 7+ years and honestly I don't feel any different today than I did the day I bought. ....

I don't think I actually painted all the guides with those brushstrokes. But you get more comments about the guides now than you did years ago. There are some very good ones out there. Our original guide still works for DVC and she was very good.

I think you missed out on the six years I had before you to understand what I am missing with DVC now. You can't miss what you never had.

 

[Sammie]

Since you are doubtful, I can help reassure you that such guides DO exist. I can't believe that my guide is the ONLY one who doesn't tell people things that are misleading. My guide was very up-front about the fact that perks are just perks and not stipulated by the contract. He was very careful to warn us that taking advantage of lower point seasons is a great way to stretch points, but that availability at non-home resorts can be iffy.

I'm sure there are guides who mislead, so I'm certainly not apologizing for guides as a whole or saying they're all perfect. But there are those who act like everything DVC does is wrong and some who act as if can do no wrong. Isn't it more likely that the truth lies in the middle and that not every little thing that goes wrong or displeases people is about greed or poor management?

Tara I am glad to hear, that, did you buy in recently?

 

[DaveH]

I find this interesting. I am glad they are making some small adjustments right now, by calling some folks on the call list. I hope in the near future, maybe 6 months or less, they can get somethings worked out with more availability. There seems to be a problem with large amount of trade outs to DCL than was planned. This seems to be the case from the reaction from the folks on here. I were/are planning on a possible cruise for next Nov. We are not ready to commit with points yet. When we are ready and the room is not available we will make a decision not to go or rent the points. I did call DVC about a cruise we already have booked. After getting the things done I asked what was going on. I did not get the press release. I got general overview, which was there was an agreement for so many points to be used to book DCL(this could mean rooms or overall points). DVC was getting close for a week or 2. Yesterday they exceeded it. Now is this DCL or DVC or both at fault I do not know. There are availability after Sep 2011, but might be limited. I got the impression that the situation is very fluid right now. I do hope something does get worked out.

 

[Sammie]

This press release that is being mentioned, why can't it be posted on the member site?

Rather than let the members find out about something "after" it happens; is it so much to ask for them to be proactive instead of reactive.

 

[DaveH]

This press release that is being mentioned, why can't it be posted on the member site?

Rather than let the members find out about something "after" it happens; is it so much to ask for them to be proactive instead of reactive.

Communication from DVC is very poor, unless to sell you more points. This seems to be a common complaint from a very high number of members on this and other sites I visit.

 

[CarolAnnC]

As to being present, I trust what CarolAnnC has reported. I know she would not mislead anyone especially when stating to the supervisor she talked with her intentions of sharing it here.

Thank you for your vote of confidence, it is much appreciated.

For those who doubt what I have written on the boards - well John was listening too, as we had the call on speaker phone. If you don't believe him either, well there were many posting on the DIS today who called in and were unable to book their own cruises and were given the same information. I guess some are just finding it too hard to believe that this could happen?

I am happy here tonite as we have successfully achieved what we set out to for our family vacation. Now, I would like to see my fellow DVC members celebrating the same thing for themselves...and I am hoping that by writing to Member Satisfaction that will also spur DVC/DCL to amend and fix what is now currently "broken". Our voices can be heard..

 

[Tara]

tara i am glad to hear, that, did you buy in recently?

2008

 

[tjkraz]

Thank you for your vote of confidence, it is much appreciated.

Just to clarify, I was never questioning what you were told as Sammie implied. I'm quite certain that everything you reported is accurate and am glad that you were able to get your situation resolved.

My comments were directed toward the content of this post and the subsequent implication that all Guides were "sleezy" due to such misinformation. None of us will ever know what questions were asked and answers provided in this situation, and history has shown that it is very common for buyers to misconstrue comments made during the sales presentation.

what DVC villa is larger than OKW, as to luxurious, I think it has gone down hill compared to OKW when it first opened. When OKW first opened it was truly as luxurious as any deluxe resort.

That's all well and good but the next 6 resorts approved by DVC management--all prior to Jim Lewis--were a step down. With BLT, AKV and VGC there was clearly improvement over the cookie cutter design of BWV, BCV, SSR, etc.

Now when they rehab they paint over furniture, give us laminate flooring and towels you can easily find at any value resort, sheets included.

Haven't seen the laminate flooring so I can't comment on that. But having done a number of home renovations, I know there are many modern laminates which are much more durable and easier to maintain than solid wood flooring or carpet.

Towels and sheets I believe are universal across all resorts.

Other room furnishings like countertops, appliances, patio furniture, mattresses, bathroom fixtures, kitchen cookware and TVs have seen some nice upgrades in recent years.

It's not like JL ordered crap furnishings when he came on board in 2004--all of that stuff was already in place.

They built a resort that has been flagged by JL himself as the flagship of DVC and within a year it looks 5 years old.

BWV had plumbing problems and BCV was pretty universally derided when it first opened for poor quality. What harsh words did you have for prior DVC management over those issues?

 

[Sammie]

My apologies again, TJ, thought you were referencing the OP, not the comments others have shared about comments from guides.

None of us will ever know what questions were asked and answers provided in this situation, and history has shown that it is very common for buyers to misconstrue comments made during the sales presentation.

My judgement is based entirely on what I have personally heard, not second hand reports.

That's all well and good but the next 6 resorts approved by DVC management--all prior to Jim Lewis--were a step down. With BLT, AKV and VGC there was clearly improvement over the cookie cutter design of BWV, BCV, SSR, etc.

That would be personal opinion, mine happens to differ on any improvement. The studio at BLT was definitely not an improvement.

Towels and sheets I believe are universal across all resorts.

Absolutely not. DVC is marketing the villas as deluxe yet towels and sheets are very different from deluxe resorts. Have you stayed at both recently?

BWV had plumbing problems and BCV was pretty universally derided when it first opened for poor quality. What harsh words did you have for prior DVC management over those issues?

Problems were fixed, hopefully the current management will step up and take measures to fix BLT including the door situation and sheers for the windows.

 

[csharpwv]

I find it to be SOOOO funny that SSR, BCV, and BWV rooms are SO IDENTICAL but yet have very different character - but they are very cookie cutter in that they are exactly the same floor plan with VERY FEW modifcations, with the exception of the grand villas. So far, as far as being traditionally elegant, and very home like - Saratoga Springs Grand Villa are just that - GRAND! I would love to spend a week in one of those with my wife, my wife's parents, and my parents! We would have a great time!

 

[gkrykewy]

That's all well and good but the next 6 resorts approved by DVC management--all prior to Jim Lewis--were a step down. With BLT, AKV and VGC there was clearly improvement over the cookie cutter design of BWV, BCV, SSR

those resorts are all beautiful IMO, and you left out VWL.

However, I do find some posters' viewing Jim Lewis as some sort of catch-all boogeyman to be just plain weird.

 

[Inkmahm]

That's not a bad idea - but - we've never rented out before so I would need some help with how to go about that. Do you know?

N

Sure! Go to the rent/trade board and read the stickies at the top of the forum for the "how to's" of renting your points.

 

[Tara]

those resorts are all beautiful IMO, and you left out VWL.

However, I do find some posters' viewing Jim Lewis as some sort of catch-all boogeyman to be just plain weird.

I don't think Tim is saying they aren't nice resorts, but rather that they're all basically alike in terms of layout. The newer resorts offer different layouts and more options (5/9 in 1BR/2BR villas in some, additional bathrooms in some, the very different layout of the THV).

 

[Drudge]

Thanks CarolAnnC for sharing your experience. Congrats for getting your cruise vacation fixed. Even tho I hope to never cruise for vacation, sharing your experience will help me when the time comes to decide to join DVC or not.

 

[gkrykewy]

I don't think Tim is saying they aren't nice resorts, but rather that they're all basically alike in terms of layout. The newer resorts offer different layouts and more options (5/9 in 1BR/2BR villas in some, additional bathrooms in some, the very different layout of the THV).

I understood that; I was just (trying to) point out that those resorts are each carefully and impeccably themed. To me, the layout of the room is essentially meaningless as a factor relative to the overall ambience and amenities of the resort (as long as the basics are covered in the room). We found our stay in a BLT studio delightful, for example, despite all the quirks with studio rooms there.

 

[lilpooh108]

Thank you for your vote of confidence, it is much appreciated.

For those who doubt what I have written on the boards - well John was listening too, as we had the call on speaker phone. If you don't believe him either, well there were many posting on the DIS today who called in and were unable to book their own cruises and were given the same information. I guess some are just finding it too hard to believe that this could happen?

I am happy here tonite as we have successfully achieved what we set out to for our family vacation. Now, I would like to see my fellow DVC members celebrating the same thing for themselves...and I am hoping that by writing to Member Satisfaction that will also spur DVC/DCL to amend and fix what is now currently "broken". Our voices can be heard..

Carol,

I'm not sure why some people don't believe what you've posted....I, for one, really really appreciated the heads up. I literally was not going to call until the end of September to change my Dec 2010 trip over to points---and we had been planning an Alaska cruise as well.

After seeing that your call list came though, DH called this morning and put ourselves on the Alaska sailing date call list, and he spoke to a supervisor to get the story (again) just to get more answers.

We're hopeful that the call list will come through between now and sometime next year. Our points are in reservation status anyway..so what's there to lose? Pixie dust and wish us luck!