* * *Major News* * * about Epcot's Spaceship Earth

[YoHo]

I too hate having focus groups for everything, and it would be great to have only the coolest stuff at Disney, but there is a point that you reach where you need to think about profit. Last time I checked, Disney was a publicly traded company whose purpose was to MAKE MONEY. Gripe all you want, but this is capitalism we are talking about and sometimes just good enough makes the most money. It is their company and their money.

I think the coolest thing would to build a runway and fly the vomit comit over the gulf or take the restrictor plates off the cars at the speedway and let me run flat-out, but 1, the insurance will kill you and 2, what market will that serve? Who will pay for that? Is it worth the investment?

The "If you build it they will come." idea is from a MOVIE, it is FICTION. Sometimes you get a car only Homer Simpson would love, but generally this is the most cost effective way to see if ideas have any merit, any mass appeal because, again, they are doing this to make money. I gladly pay every year.

Last I checked, Disneyland was built as a for profit place. Never been free.


As for Kilamanjaro safari. Bad bad bad choice, but I'll let AV chew you out for that. All I'll say is that it's got a stupid storyline and San Diego's wild animal park is a million times better at showcasing the animals. So it fails utterly.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not. It has been a long time since I was at DL, so I must really be missing someting special. You rave at how much better it is than MK, I must go there instead.

Is there anything in the rest of the country that is done better than what you have in So. Cal? I am not sure if the point of AK is to be better than anyone place, but to be a Disney version an Animal Park is. We have 2 world class Zoos here in Chicago, but are they any better than what is in Disney? I can tell you the Kids like it just as much, and that is all that matters.

I guess I don't worry about or think about how I percieve things to be at the parks, but I think about what my kids think. Does it really matter to me that they have or have not changed a ride since the last time I was there? I guess I don't get so worked up about things, I just have a good time.

 

[MJMcBride]

Last I checked, Disneyland was built as a for profit place. Never been free.


As for Kilamanjaro safari. Bad bad bad choice, but I'll let AV chew you out for that. All I'll say is that it's got a stupid storyline and San Diego's wild animal park is a million times better at showcasing the animals. So it fails utterly.

I hate to keep disagreeing with you but I guess it can't be helped. The safari is a great ride and one of my favorites. Although I have never been to San Diego, I think I kind of know what I'm talking about. I've been a volunteer at the Bronx Zoo (the only one on par with San Diego and one many feel is better than San Diego) for over 15 years and have read a lot of literature on zoos and zoo exhibits including years of magazine subscriptions. I've been to many zoos.

Anyway, the zoo exhibits at DAK are very very good. The safari ride and walk thrus particluraly the avairies, the bat exhibits, and the gorilla exhibit.

So I still disagree that Imagineering never hits the mark anymore. They hit it more often than not.

 

[YoHo]

The animal enclosures are smaller then most zoos, and I said the Wild Animal park no the zoo. The Wild Animal park has a real safari experience. AK's Theme of rescuing Baby red is offensivly stupid and a waste.

Anyway, way to judge my statement when you've never been to said zoo. And how could someone so interested in Zoos not go to the most famous zoo in the world.

 

[YoHo]

Also, for reference, Animal Kingdom is 500 acres. San Diego's Wild animal park is 1800 acres.

 

[DancingBear]

I too hate having focus groups for everything, and it would be great to have only the coolest stuff at Disney, but there is a point that you reach where you need to think about profit. Last time I checked, Disney was a publicly traded company whose purpose was to MAKE MONEY. Gripe all you want, but this is capitalism we are talking about and sometimes just good enough makes the most money. It is their company and their money.

Straw Man Alert!!! Nobody is saying the Company shouldn't make money. The things that made Disney's theme parks great also attracted crowds and made money. California Adventure and Disney Studios Paris do not.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

YoHo,
Have you been to the Bronx Zoo? How about the National Zoo? Brookfield, Lincoln Park Zoos'? All are better than the San Diego Zoo or Wild Animal Park in some way or the other. If you have not been to any of them, how can you say that it is better? Must be, it's in So. Cal.

It is not always about the size of the zoo, or the enclosures. Design is as important a factor today as the size. But you knew that because you work in the Zoological field, right.

 

[YoHo]

Actaully, I spent 25 years living 10 minutes from Brookfield Zoo.

It's nice, I love it, but There's nothing there better then San Diego. I've been to the National Zoo. It's in all ways worse then San Diego.

Lincoln Park is a pimple on Brookfield's behind. And of course, they are in deep water for having all those elephants die.


Why you would even say this is beyond me. San Diego is World Famous and is well known as the best Zoo in the country. Why would you try to deny that?


And anyway, We're talking about Animal Kingdom here.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

In your opinion. Or is that a fact.
We were actually talking about SE and Epcot, but we could go on like this forever, you thinking you know all. This bores me. See Ya

 

[Another Voice]

...sometimes just good enough makes the most money.

This is a wonderful thought if you manufacture ChezWhiz.

But I expect more out of Disney. And so does the general public. People don't respond to "just good enough", well, expect for the people who settle for it. The rest of us move on until we find what's really great.

I mean, California Adventure was designed by enough MBA's to fill all of Trump Tower, and no real person is actually willing to buy a single day ticket for the place. Yet, just a hundred yards away, sits an old fashioned, "Tom Sawyer doesn't mean anything to my three year old", designed by a cartoon guy and his buddies around what they liked - and it's so busy it's having to shut its gates.

The difference between the two is talent.

The only people who need focus groups are those that lack talent. And sadly Disney has spent the last decade driving out every bit of talent they could. Now they are paying the price for it – failed parks, closed film divisions, depressed stock price and all the rest.

The problem with most Disney fans is they have lost perspective on the whole "it's capitalism" lie. Disney is entertainment. It follows different rules. Places like Animal Kingdom don't follow the rules for entertainment and so it's failing financially. Because you like it, or because you're so self-identified with the brand that you have to like, doesn't mean real people will. Disney can’t recover until it figure outs how to attract people that don’t trade pins.

 

[dbm20th]

Why you would even say this is beyond me. San Diego is World Famous and is well known as the best Zoo in the country. Why would you try to deny that?

The most famous zoo on the planet is the Bronx Zoo. Any thought to say otherwise is...well...beyond me. But considering a previous post from MJMcBride, someone apparently in the field, says enough for me. San Diego and the National Zoo are close seconds, but they are seconds

How is it fair to compare Animal Kingdom to Wild Animal Safari. How many roller coasters do they have there? Or AA Dinosaur rides? How many extremely expensive free roaming Dinosaur AA's do they have there? How many live action shows? Or interactive 3-D movies? Sure parks devoted totally to displaying animals do it better. And parks devoted totally to thrill rides may do that better. But that isn't the argument is it? What park does them both? And of those that do them both, who does them better?

 

[freakylick]

If Yoho and you are saying that Imagineering NEVER hits the mark anymore,

That depends on where one sets "the mark" and I think that's where there is disagreement here. Plus I don't think people are talking in absolutes like "NEVER".

Soarin' is new and everyone loves it.

Speaking of absolutes, not "everyone" loves Soarin'.

 

[DancingBear]

DisneyBaby, you forgot the

Y'all were getting off track in comparing zoo cred. (For the record, I've been to San Diego, the original CA Lion Country Safari, Lincoln Park, Columbus, Cincinnati, Central Park, North Carolina, Columbia SC, National, Baltimore, San Antonio and Berlin, and Busch Gardens-Tampa, that I can remember off-hand). Certainly whether or not you agree that San Diego is number one or number two, it's a valid point of comparison. (And my local zoo, the National, sucks on many, many points).

That being said, I'm a much bigger AK fan than YoHo. [But the Big Red Little Red poacher storyline on Kilimanjaro Safari is pretty silly.]

 

[YoHo]

In your opinion. Or is that a fact.
We were actually talking about SE and Epcot, but we could go on like this forever, you thinking you know all. This bores me. See Ya

http://www.goodzoos.com/USA/sandiego.htm

Asking a zoophile to write any critique of the San Diego Zoo is like asking a musician to criticise Mozart, or pressing an architect to find fault with the Taj Mahal. However much we may boast about the virtues of our favourite zoo, San Diego always lurks behind us as the gold standard against which all modern zoos must be judged. So great is its reputation in this respect, that among zoo aficionados a pilgrimage to San Diego has become virtually compulsory;

 

[dbm20th]

Interesting to quote a site that freely admits its own ignoranace towards the Bronx Zoo.

 

[YoHo]

Well, if the Bronx Zoo is so Awesomely awesome, then a site labeled "BestZoos" should know about it right?

Interesting how the people arguing FOR the Bronx zoo are all from the area.

 

[maddhatir]

aaaahhhhhh MickeyMoper

PS--- arent you glad you brought this subject up!

when they get started-- it just cracks me the heck up!

welcome to the board!

 

[DisneyBaby!]

One last thing. I guess this is the beauty of the internet, you can pretend to be anyone, from anywhere and claim to be an expert on whatever you want, and nobody can impeach the veracity of your comments.

Anyone with, what is it, $10 can register a domain name and put whatever they want on it, claim whatever they wanty on it and the whole world says, "well I read it on the internet" and now it is gospel truth.

I could be a NASA scientist, or a 10 yo grade school kid that talks a big talk. So could YoHo. Or he could be my neighbor, is there really a way to check?

Back to the subject, Is there anybody, anwhere that does Everything that Disney does at the level they do it at? They might not be the best at it all, but they are certainly not the worst by far.

(that was for my son)

 

[ChrisFL]

Back to the subject, Is there anybody, anwhere that does Everything that Disney does at the level they do it at? They might not be the best at it all, but they are certainly not the worst by far.

(that was for my son)

Let's say at least one company is getting very close to the level Disney does it at, and arguably has done a lot better in the past several years at creating unique and exciting attractions...given the resources on either side, anything is possible. Both are having bad times due to different reasons (cutbacks, layoffs, outsourcing, management/owner changes)

 

[Planogirl]

The Bronx Zoo is the most famous zoo on the planet? With who? This zoo lover spent a lot of time researching good zoos and I don't recall ever seeing the Bronx Zoo mentioned as the best or most famous. But whatever.

Back to the subject at hand, Disney is still at a high level but that difference is shrinking. A lot of their popularity rests on their reputation and their past in my opinion but how long will that last?