* * *Major News* * * about Epcot's Spaceship Earth

[caseymaureen]

You guys could be a lot nicer, unless you're only here to try to chase away any Disney fans who would like to discuss something they heard on vacation. Not everyone spends every day on this board reading every post- most likely the original poster had no idea that the topic had already been covered. You may not have noticed, but this section is called "Rumors and News", not just news, and especially not "Only 100% factual and guaranteed information." People can post whatever they want and you have the right to believe them or not believe them. But you don't have the right to treat them with such utter rudeness and disrespect over something so silly. None of us are the authorities on Disney gossip OR news, and if someone overhears cast members discussing something they find interesting, they can post all they want. You don't have to read it, and if you do need to disagree you can be polite. This whole thread really just makes me sad.

 

[mitros]

It's OK to be sad on the Disboards every so often...... it happens

 

[DisneyBaby!]

YoHo
I agree with what you are saying and the Bears are a perfect example. It is normal to criticize the way the team is run and even yearn for the good old days of the Da Coach but a little pathetic to say "Da Coach was da best, bring back Ditka!" It becomes a joke and a punchlike to a SNL skit. People have forgotten how rude and abusive the coach was to anyone who disagreed with him.

People remember only the good and forget that there was a movie called That Darn Cat! I guess my point is things move on. You don't have to put people to sleep to have family fun. OK maybe the racers are too much, but they could improve the ride, make it informational, educational but not so boring. The point of change is to make things better. You might have some klunkers like the Edsel before you strike gold with the Mustang but you have to keep trying.

 

[ChrisFL]

The east side of Future World seems out of whack with the thrill rides M:S and TT side-by-side, and WoL closed. (I feel the same way about Tower of Terror/RnR and Splash/Big Thunder, although Splash is perhaps my favorite attraction in all of WDW).

But IMO there's a big difference between the new thrill rides at Epcot vs MGM...and that is that MGM's thrill rides didn't replace previously well done family rides. They added without subtracting and everyone is happy. When they start subtracting family rides for either thrill rides, or poorly conceived new family rides...thats when it becomes a problem.

[I've never understood why the "Tomorrow's Child" song was removed from Spaceship Earth, or "Listen to the Land" was removed from the Land boat ride. A lot of original songs have been lost and not replaced.]

Agree totally...it's sad when you're going on the land and singing the song that USED to play there, to yourself.

There has also been a loss of the cohesive themes of Future World, about the vision of the remarkable world we live in and the more remarkable future that our children have the opportunity to create. I enjoy Soarin' as a ride, but what's it about, exactly?

Yes, I considered this a few days ago...what exactly is still "Future" about "Future world"? Mission Space is supposed to be futuristic though it's basically a shuttle style theme, and we've got some kinda futuristic stuff in Spaceship Earth, but not the kind of future stuff we used to see. The other attractions have almost no "futuristic" aspect at all.

 

[All Aboard]

I can't say that there are many on these boards that I really like, but YoHo, you are the real deal.

Great, just what we needed. YoHo's head to get a little bigger.

 

[MJMcBride]

If Walt had still been around, he would never keep things the same. He would always try to improve or add to what is there already.He was innovative and had great vision that would have only tried to make things better. if he felt he had to change something to make it better, he would have. He was a great risk taker which he proved by making full length animated features when no one ever did and made them great. He was taking a chance with DL and he made it great and WDW would have been his next vision to develop( he had the plans ,but never saw it done) if he did not pass away before it could be opened. He would never say what is there is unchangeable and there is nothing else that he could do to improve it. The latest thing people are upset about is potc being remodeled. how could anyone say it might not be better. I love the originals, but I also embrace change for the better. Walt might have felt it needed this. You never know. Time will tell.

Here here.

I know there are a lot of people on these boards who wish things were still the same since the 70s. Some stuff needs to change. Sure there are the classics like POTC, but a little change might not hurt. Same thing with SE. Test Track is better than World of Motion. Fine. Alien Encounter was god awful. OK. Move on.

I'm tired of being the outcast because I'm glad Mr Toad's Wild Ride is gone and I think the Jungle Cruise needs a serious overhaul. 20,000 Leagues under the Sea was over. Lets face facts.

 

[rogerram]

sigh, You've entirely missed my point. I never said I don't want change. I said that the stuff Eisner put in isn't what drew me to Disney.

Sure Walt would change stuff, maybe he would even put in stuff I didn't like, but that's not the point at all and has nothing to do with the point.

The point is that Disney had me prior to Eisner. And that the stuff that has happened during Eisner's tenure is not what made me care.

Walt created things that made me care, Roy O. created things that made me care, Ron Miller created things that made me care.

Eisner created tings that I like, things that I don't like and so forth, but I was already a junkie.

I realize this website is populated with people who didn't start going until a year ago, or started having families and therefore started caring recently, but there was a WDW and DL before then and almost everything that makes those parks truely spectacular was there back then.
ugh.

Not everything Eisner did was bad. His biggest problem seemed to be he wanted to be Walt and no one could tell him otherwise. There were many things that came into the parks that I find as very good and on par with older things during his tenure. Don't get me wrong, I think he ruined many things also. He needed to go. Also ,Spaceship Earth is a classic and I never would say it is not, but it is not what it was. There used to be longer lines waiting outside and up the side of the building and it is rare you ever see that anymore. It is not a must see for many people anymore. It probably needs an update of something, but you never know what can happen. As for the comment on the website being populated with people who just started going a year ago, i can tell you I first went to WDW in 1973 at 10 and went with my family every 2 years until the late 80's so I know what has been there and is now gone and what has been added. I now go yearly with DVC so I see the changes. Not all work, but some do. I did love 20,000 leagues and mr. toad, but they needed a change. Maybe they could have update Mr Toad . Pooh is o.k. and my kids like it. Something in 20,000 leagues would be nice other than a pooh greet area, which supports your not improving the MK theory. Some ride of some type would be nice. But it is ever evolving.

 

[YoHo]

Great, just what we needed. YoHo's head to get a little bigger.

If that's even possible.

 

[YoHo]

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!


I never said nothing in the past 20-25 years was good, just that the attractions, the hotels the policies that make Disney so truely unique and awesome are from Walt and his family.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

There should be a place in WDW for some classics and some new rides- unfortunately not everyone will agree which are the classics and which ones will go to replace others.

I miss Horizons and Food Rocks and ESPECIALLY the Skyway! But you know, I am happy with their replacements (except Skyway, since there's no replacement for that, nothing like it at all ) and enjoy a new Disney experiences each time and I love seeing new attractions.

Updating SE would be nice, although I love parts of it - like the smoke smell in the Rome area, and the idea in general- of communication throughout the ages. However, I don't think it' a good idea to replace it with a roller coaster. I have heard more and more older or disabled adults saying that they'll "just sit on a bench". Rides like SE are important because they can be stopped for those that require a stop in order to load.

Maybe if they do in update, though, they'll lose the ugly "Epcot" sign on top. How I wish to see that bare golf ball again!

 

[DancingBear]

I know there are a lot of people on these boards who wish things were still the same since the 70s. Some stuff needs to change. Sure there are the classics like POTC, but a little change might not hurt. Same thing with SE. Test Track is better than World of Motion. Fine. Alien Encounter was god awful. OK. Move on.

I'm tired of being the outcast because I'm glad Mr Toad's Wild Ride is gone and I think the Jungle Cruise needs a serious overhaul. 20,000 Leagues under the Sea was over. Lets face facts.

I'm trying not to scream like YoHo, but have you even been reading what I, YoHO and A-V have been saying?

Nobody was wedded to Alien Encounter, in fact it's Exhibit A in the prosecution of Mr. Eisner for "not getting it." [And I haven't heard any crying for the demise of Mission to Mars.]

It's not about not making any changes to the Enchanted Tiki Room, it's about not just throwing Zazu and Iago into the thing with some cheesy new lyrics to Friend Like Me and calling that an improvement.

 

[dbm20th]

But doesn't it seem a little silly to have a "classic" ride in Future World at EPCOT?

 

[YoHo]

But doesn't it seem a little silly to have a "classic" ride in Future World at EPCOT?

What?????


If the "Classic" ride still speaks to the future, then by all means it should stay.


Of course, that's a strawman argument, Epcot Center was built with the intention of it being updated on a very very regular basis. The problem is they let it sit there and die, then when they finally did update it, they install Ellen's Energy adventure (which is worse) and Test Track. What's so futuristic about Test Track.

Mission Space is kinda sorta futuristic, but then, they slashed the budget and pulled out so much of the pavilion, that it's faulted in it's own way, plus It's a puke machine.

 

[peter11435]

plus It's a puke machine.

Not as bad as some want you to think. After nearly 30 rides on the attraction I have yet to see a single person puke or even look sick after the ride. I am sure it happens, but I really don't think it is nearly as bad as reported.

 

[dbm20th]

What?????


If the "Classic" ride still speaks to the future, then by all means it should stay.


Of course, that's a strawman argument, Epcot Center was built with the intention of it being updated on a very very regular basis. The problem is they let it sit there and die, then when they finally did update it, they install Ellen's Energy adventure (which is worse) and Test Track. What's so futuristic about Test Track.

Mission Space is kinda sorta futuristic, but then, they slashed the budget and pulled out so much of the pavilion, that it's faulted in it's own way, plus It's a puke machine.

Obviously the theme of looking into the future has been lost on FW for a while now. Test Track is a futuristic as now outdated ending to SE itself. Test Track is about development, and it is darn fun too!

But as you yourself say, FW is suppose to be updated regularly. But, of course, you are happy with how long they waited to update it, and then unhappy with the updates, and now unhappy with the idea updating Spaceship Earth. It seems to me that leaving it alone is the only choice.

I think we can assume that a "classic" ride is one that is not updated too much. My concern is not about content. When I say that it seems weird to have a "classic" ride in Future World in EPCOT, I say that it is not what they planned. The plan was, as you stated, to move forward and update. That is exactly what I am in support of. But of course, you are convinced any update would be bad. There is nothing I can do about that.

Now instead of going back and forth about this, I would like to ask you a serious question. Are you happy with the departure of Marty Sklar? Do you think Lasseter will make a difference? Just curious what you would think about such a major shake-up in WDI

 

[ChrisFL]

Not as bad as some want you to think. After nearly 30 rides on the attraction I have yet to see a single person puke or even look sick after the ride. I am sure it happens, but I really don't think it is nearly as bad as reported.

Funny, after my first (and only) ride...I saw 2 people that were sick...they were using the big, strategically placed trash cans.

 

[YoHo]

But, of course, you are happy with how long they waited to update it, and then unhappy with the updates, and now unhappy with the idea updating Spaceship Earth. It seems to me that leaving it alone is the only choice.

What the heck gave you the idea that I was happy they didn't update it? I mean seriously, there is absolutly no basis for you saying that.

I think we can assume that a "classic" ride is one that is not updated too much.

That's a pretty bizarre definition of classic.

A classic attraction could be refering to something so defining that it has pop culture relevency. This would be Pirates or Dumbo. Or it could refer to the mechinism the ride uses. Such as a classic dark ride or a classic rollercoaster.

You seem to think classic=old. That's nuts.
If a classic isn't updated, then that's because it was done right the first time.
Of course, since every Disney "Classic" has had updates through the years, even that definition is kinda dumb.

My concern is not about content. When I say that it seems weird to have a "classic" ride in Future World in EPCOT, I say that it is not what they planned. The plan was, as you stated, to move forward and update. That is exactly what I am in support of. But of course, you are convinced any update would be bad. There is nothing I can do about that.

So, to use real English instead of bizarre definitions, what you're really saying is:
it seems weird to have an OLD, outdated ride in Future World in EPCOT

And I agree. Of course, if the old ride isn't outdated, then why replace it?

As for this:

But of course, you are convinced any update would be bad.

You are honestly starting to make me angry. You are ignoring what I am saying. You are ignoring what others are saying about me. If you can't be bothered to read what I'm saying then all you're doing is trying to provoke a flame war and I have no time for that and I'm sure Sara will have a few things to say about it.

Now instead of going back and forth about this, I would like to ask you a serious question. Are you happy with the departure of Marty Sklar? Do you think Lasseter will make a difference? Just curious what you would think about such a major shake-up in WDI

Marty Sklar became a company shil. He certainly wasn't the worst guy, but he's no saint either.

I HOPE Lasseter will make a difference, but realistically, there are a few more people back in burbank that need to clean out their offices before I expect any real change. I will say that I think we're better off with Lasseter then without.


Also, you didn't ask, but I think Joe Rhode is a twit.

 

[DancingBear]

But as you yourself say, FW is suppose to be updated regularly. But, of course, you are happy with how long they waited to update it, and then unhappy with the updates, and now unhappy with the idea updating Spaceship Earth. It seems to me that leaving it alone is the only choice.

Saying changing SE to Time Racers is a bad idea is not the same as being "unhappy with the idea of updating Spaceship Earth." Why couldn't there be updates (and replacements) but still stick within some conceptual theme? Why couldn't there be great new family-friendly attractions? Do you have any thoughts about the assertion that those are two elements that are core to making WDW different from US/IOA, Busch Gardens, etc.?

Lasseter's impact remains to be seen, but it's promising that he got some sort of funding commitments for WDI. From what I can glean Sklar wasn't doing anything meaningful for WDI lately, so it doesn't seem like that is very significant for the issues we are discussing.

 

[Linzybrooke]

I have to ask this of everyone...I'm curious.

When the Classics like POTC, Mr. Toad, 20,000, Jungle Cruise, etc stop attracting the younger kids what do you propose that they do?

For instance, if I went on a ride when I was a kid with my parents that they had loved as a kid yet I found incredibly boring am I going to take my kids on it when I take them? Maybe, and they may like it even less than I did, or maybe not, or they may like it. But, if they don't like it what then? Will they go on it when they go on a class trip, or when they finally have kids? Once the characters or storylines become dated they don't attract the crowd anymore, and not doing anything to help them out only hurts them more.

So, what do we do then? Keep them operating under skeleton attendance? Make them "seasonal"? Pretend they are still popular and go on as if nothing is wrong? Update or replace them? I mean, what is the best option...

 

[exDS vet]

I have to ask this of everyone...I'm curious.

When the Classics like POTC, Mr. Toad, 20,000, Jungle Cruise, etc stop attracting the younger kids what do you propose that they do?

Pirates and Jungle Cruise are in completely different leagues than Mr. Toad and the submarines. Of course you may be referring to WDW while I am referring to both. Sure DL still has Toad and they are bringing the subs back for Nemo (imagine my excitement there).

I propose that Disney just ban kids from the parks altogether. Why not? Imagine the joy of not having to deal with whining, crying brats or the parents who scream at them or beat the hell out of them right there for all the world to see. If they ban the kids, then we wouldn't have to worry about them getting bored with the classic rides.

Okay, mayby an all-out ban is too harsh. Since kids are the target audience, maybe kids admission should be twice that of adult admission. Kids meals should start at $25.00. Ice cream and candy at the MK should cost the same as a cocktail at one of the resorts. Send them to Six Flags or Universal so they won't be bored. That's the answer.

So, what do we do then? Pretend they are still popular and go on as if nothing is wrong? Update or replace them? I mean, what is the best option...

I had a feeling that you would bring The Disney Store into this thread too.