Major DVC Change - Resale Market Only original 14 resort access

[Lumpy1106]

Do you mean the Jan announcement spiked it?

Well yes, that and Disney was exercising ROFR like crazy during that time.

 

[mshanson3121]

Disney is really trying to limit the resale market I guess.

I'm honestly really surprised that they allow people to rent out their DVC.

 

[crvetter]

I'm honestly really surprised that they allow people to rent out their DVC.

Well that is something that is explicitly granted in the contracts for DVC. So they can’t limit it at all with current owners (as Florida wouldn’t allow that change I would think since it is a change in use). Also renting out the points has no negative impact on the system (the points already exist and someone was entitled to use them) and it brings in potential buyers too.

 

[jade1]

Well yes, that and Disney was exercising ROFR like crazy during that time.

I see, it just doesn't show on the chart that way though does it?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Well that is something that is explicitly granted in the contracts for DVC. So they can’t limit it at all with current owners (as Florida wouldn’t allow that change I would think since it is a change in use). Also renting out the points has no negative impact on the system (the points already exist and someone was entitled to use them) and it brings in potential buyers too.

Well the negative to disney is that the DVC owners who are renting out points are essentially competing with DIsney itself by renting rooms at a cheaper rate.

 

[crvetter]

Well the negative to disney is that the DVC owners who are renting out points are essentially competing with DIsney itself by renting rooms at a cheaper rate.

Perhaps but that couldn't be a negative until they have issues not filling their cash rooms to capacity (currently and recent history that has not been a problem). They rather have guests in the DVC rooms going to the parks realistically during anytime of the year or any economy. In a situation where the rooms sit empty on the cash side Disney isn't going to want to stop owners from renting cause that will cause breakage to rise which means more cash rooms to rent (since Disney is legally obligated to try and rent them), this creates more supply which further pushes the cash prices down. So I suspect Disney wouldn't want to stop rentals (though it can't) since it leads to issues for them.

 

[DisFanDad]

Some really interesting data / analysis here which demonstrates that DVC resales are in fact lagging, this is despite the economy being strong than in previous years.

https://dvcfan.com/2020/01/21/rivie...PjcqS_mIFk8bJOshg0dhGGUoLGR6HBKr4zF_YPm2OpRv8

 

[lugnut33]

I'm sort of surprised DVC owners down get more upset when Disney decides on restrictions that will ultimately hurt their resale value.

 

[AvidDisReader]

Trust me, most do get very upset on the resale restrictions. Take a look at the Dis Forums that are only related to DVC. This is a hot button that gets owners seeing red.

 

[DisFanDad]

I'm sort of surprised DVC owners down get more upset when Disney decides on restrictions that will ultimately hurt their resale value.

Too many people are too into the kool-aid to care, especially if they don't perceive (note, perceive) it to affect them personally. Though this is a problem in general. So many people on these boards (and disney social media in general) basically tell others to suck it up and stop complaining about things when they don't care about the things the other is complaining about. But as soon as it IS something THEY care about, then its the end of the world.

 

[Lumpy1106]

New resale BLT owner here. We bought just before the restrictions to get grandfathered and now, looking back on the last year of sales, probably paid too much. We want to stay at BLT and don't have intentions of staying elsewhere -but- the more restrictions there are on the points, the more DVC is like any other timeshare - which we have no interest in. If I don't have any interest in it, neither do a lot of other people. So, whether we ever exercise our right to book somewhere else or not, restricting this access lowers the perceived value, which, we theorize, lowers the real, resale value. How could that ever be a good thing?

All that said, IMHO, the recent dramatic reduction of ROFR buybacks has a lot more to do with the current resale prices than anything else. That's going to happen if the current direct buyers are primarily buying RIviera. With the perceived discount in the price of RIV vs. all of the other resort direct prices, why wouldn't they? I know, resale restrictions, relative points charts and dues - but these are details that only come up in passing during the DVC tour - if they do at all.

 

[TisBit]

As for current owners being upset about resale restrictions. That is more of an issue for someone that is planning to sell their ownership. I have no plans to ever sell my ownership, so there is no effect on me for these restrictions. In fact, they are a plus, since I purchased directly, as the DVC ownership grows more and more, there is increased competition to get perks associated with membership. Reducing that pool of eligible owners, actually increases the chances of me getting into DVC parties, park parties, etc. I think this is why you have many owners shrug their shoulders....

 

[lugnut33]

As for current owners being upset about resale restrictions. That is more of an issue for someone that is planning to sell their ownership. I have no plans to ever sell my ownership, so there is no effect on me for these restrictions. In fact, they are a plus, since I purchased directly, as the DVC ownership grows more and more, there is increased competition to get perks associated with membership. Reducing that pool of eligible owners, actually increases the chances of me getting into DVC parties, park parties, etc. I think this is why you have many owners shrug their shoulders....

I thought the same thing too, but I did end up selling. Things happen in life, priorities can change, and Disney can create rules I don't care for. That said, I totally loved being a DVC member.

 

[jade1]

As for current owners being upset about resale restrictions. That is more of an issue for someone that is planning to sell their ownership. I have no plans to ever sell my ownership, so there is no effect on me for these restrictions. In fact, they are a plus,

Exact. Our contracts are still going up anyway.

But even if they did drop-we would probably just buy some more.

They would have to drop in half to even get back to what most of ours cost.

Newer owners though-might be a different story.

 

[DisFanDad]

so there is no effect on me for these restrictions. In fact, they are a plus

I mean, if you think competition for direct member perks are going to decrease, ok, but I can't see how that is logically so.

On the other hand, if direct purchasers at Riviera think the restrictions wont effect them simply because they don't intend to (or may in fact never) sell, well, what a wake up they have coming.

A quick couple examples of how these restrictions WILL effect direct owners, there are in fact many.

1 - Insane 11 month booking competition -as more and more of the Riviera inventory moves to resale, more and more of that inventory becomes "trapped" at the resort. Meaning people who hold resale contracts are going to fear not being able to use their points, and have them expire, and so they will be extra eager to book at the 11 month mark. On top of this, over time, people who own at Riviera will not be able to get a booking that works for them for a year, or two, and over time a GLUT of points is going to build up at Riviera. Aka - more points than the resort has room to be used in a given year, potentially far more points. Again, people will then quite desperately be trying to book at the 11 month window, leaving many direct owners, also forced to TRY to book at the 11 month window, but likely to be forced to see whats available at 7 months elsewhere, which we all know is getting more and more difficult.

2 - Decreased value of points - as we know is true at other resorts, many people choose to rent out their points for various reasons, I can foresee the same thing happening at Riviera, however again, with points trapped there, and fearing expiration, its quite likely there is downward pressure on the value of rental points at Riviera. Because people will NEED to get rid of those points, and will ONLY be able to do so through Riviera, they are going to be willing to sell points / reservations for less and less. So its quite possible you have this double whammy of the resort being one of the most difficult to book, especially at the 11 month window for the prime portions of the year, and points being worth far less to rent out because of the desperation of the resale owners at Riviera.

Like I said, that's just a couple of the ways Direct owners WILL be effected by the restrictions. You have to think about how these restrictions will impact supply and demand, booking patters, usage patterns, etc, not just you personally abstracted from your ownership in a communal property.

 

[jade1]

I mean, if you think competition for direct member perks are going to decrease, ok, but I can't see how that is logically so.

On the other hand, if direct purchasers at Riviera think the restrictions wont effect them simply because they don't intend to (or may in fact never) sell, well, what a wake up they have coming.

A quick couple examples of how these restrictions WILL effect direct owners, there are in fact many.

1 - Insane 11 month booking competition -as more and more of the Riviera inventory moves to resale, more and more of that inventory becomes "trapped" at the resort. Meaning people who hold resale contracts are going to fear not being able to use their points, and have them expire, and so they will be extra eager to book at the 11 month mark. On top of this, over time, people who own at Riviera will not be able to get a booking that works for them for a year, or two, and over time a GLUT of points is going to build up at Riviera. Aka - more points than the resort has room to be used in a given year, potentially far more points. Again, people will then quite desperately be trying to book at the 11 month window, leaving many direct owners, also forced to TRY to book at the 11 month window, but likely to be forced to see whats available at 7 months elsewhere, which we all know is getting more and more difficult.

2 - Decreased value of points - as we know is true at other resorts, many people choose to rent out their points for various reasons, I can foresee the same thing happening at Riviera, however again, with points trapped there, and fearing expiration, its quite likely there is downward pressure on the value of rental points at Riviera. Because people will NEED to get rid of those points, and will ONLY be able to do so through Riviera, they are going to be willing to sell points / reservations for less and less. So its quite possible you have this double whammy of the resort being one of the most difficult to book, especially at the 11 month window for the prime portions of the year, and points being worth far less to rent out because of the desperation of the resale owners at Riviera.

Like I said, that's just a couple of the ways Direct owners WILL be effected by the restrictions. You have to think about how these restrictions will impact supply and demand, booking patters, usage patterns, etc, not just you personally abstracted from your ownership in a communal property.

Not sure if TisBit meant current "Riviera" owners or not. But I agree a Riviera owner is is not in a great position like you explained.

As for us in the Original 14, not as worried with the extra 4 month window, as well as the 11 month window the same as always.

Esp those of us that bought where we want to stay as advised over and over.

 

[AvidDisReader]

Here is the issue, Life happens. The resale restrictions will hurt future resale values and that sucks as DVC was originally marketed as a different kind of time share, not the shady time shares that are so prevalent in the industry. I have mentioned before, but a little over a year ago I had a heart attack and ended up with open heart surgery. I am lucky that everything came out ok. Plus, my employer was incredibly supportive thru the whole ordeal (not everyone is lucky enough to have an employer that supports their employees that way mine did). So, what if things had not gone well, if my employer had looked for a way to dump a health risk? I could have been is a position to have to sell, luckily that did not come to pass-yet. I have no intentions of selling and enjoy every minute I get to spend with my family at WDW-probably appreciate it now more than ever. But as I said at the beginning-Life happens and as my favourite sports figure Walter Payton used to say "tomorrow is promised to no one".

 

[jade1]

Here is the issue, Life happens. The resale restrictions will hurt future resale values and that sucks as DVC was originally marketed as a different kind of time share, not the shady time shares that are so prevalent in the industry. I have mentioned before, but a little over a year ago I had a heart attack and ended up with open heart surgery. I am lucky that everything came out ok. Plus, my employer was incredibly supportive thru the whole ordeal (not everyone is lucky enough to have an employer that supports their employees that way mine did). So, what if things had not gone well, if my employer had looked for a way to dump a health risk? I could have been is a position to have to sell, luckily that did not come to pass-yet. I have no intentions of selling and enjoy every minute I get to spend with my family at WDW-probably appreciate it now more than ever. But as I said at the beginning-Life happens and as my favourite sports figure Walter Payton used to say "tomorrow is promised to no one".

Well said. Good wishes going forward.

What DVC do you own?

 

[AvidDisReader]

I own 330 direct points at Bay Lake, and 260 point at Animal Kingdom Lodge (100 direct and 160 resale pre Jan 2019).

 

[jade1]

I own 330 direct points at Bay Lake, and 260 point at Animal Kingdom Lodge (100 direct and 160 resale pre Jan 2019).

Good for you.

So about $80,000 if you chose to sell today. Probably paid around what $56,000?

That's why I "do" consider DVC as a different kind of time share, well one reason anyway.

One other is the memories you can continue to make/have made, and obv the hedge against room pricing.

Exactly right that "life happens", and with any other timeshare there would be no return/help in comparison to your DVC position.

Only thing better would be if you owned more IMO.