Maine Commission Moves to Ban Gender Specific Bathrooms, Sports Teams in Schools

[Lisa loves Pooh]

They do not need to ban it.

I had an employer that simply created a unisex bathroom when one of the employees was undergoing a sex change.

That was a reasonable compromise. (When they were ready to make the full transition, they then used the ladies restroom when they felt comfortable while the unisex restroom remained unisex.)


I don't consider it a human rights violation for a girls bathroom to be onlyf or girls and a boys bathroom to be only for boys.

I do consider it a human rights violation for a transgendered invidiual to not have a place they feel comfortable to do business. But what if they are male, prefer to be female and are uncomfortable around males (or vice versa). Does it really preserve their dignity to be sharing a facility with those whom they do not identify as being their same gender?

In any case---offering a unisex option to me would be a better compromise than to ban same sex facilities all together.

I'm curious about other countries. I am familiar with nations that have unisex public facilities. Is it that way in elementary schools as well? (both bathroom and locker facilities?)

 

[bicker]

I don't consider it a human rights violation for a girls bathroom to be onlyf or girls and a boys bathroom to be only for boys.

I think this is a red herring in all this: The issue isn't the restriction, itself, but rather the pattern of transgressive end-results that develop in the absence of the restriction, for example, the bullying in the boys' locker room. The problems run deeper as you start adding in complications that this ban is based on, such as . . .

I do consider it a human rights violation for a transgendered invidiual to not have a place they feel comfortable to do business.

If the only way to address substantial injustice is to force society to address mildly-significant injustice as well (and the really-bad injustice benefits from that), then so be it.

In any case---offering a unisex option to me would be a better compromise than to ban same sex facilities all together.

Yes, true, but that goes back to what several of us mentioned earlier, that many people in society are, at times, self-motivated and ungenerous with regard to needs that they themselves don't have. The idea of spending public money in order to achieve a "better compromise" is an anathema to them -- they figure that society should only be spending what is necessary to delight them, not so much as would be necessary to do what is best for most everyone, some even placing their own desires over the actual needs of others. How else can we overcome the obstructions to justice that such egocentric perspectives represent? That's not rhetorical. I think a lot of folks feel that this kind of ban is pretty silly, but injustice is worse than silliness, so it is a fair trade-off. However, if there was a better way to overcome the barriers to justice that are of issue here, I think most folks would resonate with it (except perhaps the folks who are actually pleased by the prospect of the original injustice of issue, here).

I'm curious about other countries. I am familiar with nations that have unisex public facilities. Is it that way in elementary schools as well? (both bathroom and locker facilities?)

For many years I had this small inferiority complex as it pertained to our nation and its place among developed nations with regard to many aspects. I read articles showing Swedes were better educated, the French were healthier, etc. What I've realized, though, perhaps from my righteously patriotic ethnocentric perspective, is that our nation is actually the best at far more things than any other nation. I had occasion to speak with a colleague at work, recently, about how Germany handles accommodation for the disabled. (Many of our employees are Germans or lived in Germany for many years.) What I learned was a bit shocking, that what I thought was this progressively-minded European nation was actually quite backwards with regard to many of the things that we've come to take for granted in this country since adoption of the ADA. With regard to the most obvious elements, accessible sidewalks and ramps and such, they actually do exceed us, I'm told, but for less flashy circumstances, such as the obligations on business to provide a suitable working environment, they fall far short. Their basic approach for such folks is evidently not to accommodate, but rather to pension.

And that's with regard to the physically disabled. Turning our attention back to others in society who have as a group experienced a pattern of injustice against them, such as that which the folks in Maine are struggling with, most other countries aren't even yet at the point where most of their people recognize the injustice staring them in the face. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'm very much looking forward to reading replies to your message in that regard, but I think we Americans need to keep in mind that we very-well may be the fore-runners of progress for many things.

 

[MichelleinMaine]

I'm curious about other countries. I am familiar with nations that have unisex public facilities. Is it that way in elementary schools as well? (both bathroom and locker facilities?)

Pools (small indoor water parks, really, but often as part of a sports complex) that I have gone to in Germany do sometimes have unisex changing facilities. Most often it's a big room with separate cubicles. (Have a full door, though the tops of the cubicles are usually open. Eg maybe a 7' wall but the ceiling is 12 feet +.) Some are designed for single users, some are also larger for family use.

From that large room, people do have to go through designated male/female rooms (which include the showers and toilet stalls) to get to the pool area.

I haven't been in a German HS since 1989, but there was not a gym/locker room there. There were no school sports teams (sports more down in town "clubs") and PE was not part of the curriculum.

 

[MichelleinMaine]

.

Is this the same group that had the topless protest? They marched down some street in Maine -- all the women topless -- saying that it was sexist to deny them the right to walk around topless.

Completely unrelated group and issue.

 

[KPeveler]

I understand why a transgendered person (or person struggling with gender identity or someone going through transition) would need their own space, or a space they can feel safe.

I also get why they wish to have that person not have to go to a "special place." As a disabled person, I get the idea of why being separated from everyone else is not always a good one.

This is a difficult issue, but I dont think that eliminating ALL gender barriers is a good thing! I also dont think doing nothing for the 12 yr old was ok...

 

[My sister's princess]

Mainer here


I think this is a very bad idea, considering we already have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country. Allowing for more private space, where there is no supervision isn't bound to help things.
Not to mention, how many sexual harassment suits would come out of this kind of craziness.
Make a unisex, one stalled bathroom, and call it good.