Main Street is no place for corporate branding

[gwmort]

You guys get Disney is a corporation right?

All those cute "hidden Mickeys" are subliminal corporate branding.

There is nothing wrong with cross corporate advertising. Nobody freaks out about the sanctity of McDonalds when theres a princess toy in their happy meal.

 

[minnie mum]

You do understand this is unprecendented don't you?
You do understand Walt's intention of Main Street don't you?
You do understand the importance and sanctity of Main Street don't you?

Have you ever read a Walt Disney biography?

Do you just look at WDW as a "theme park" in need of some decent coffee?

Yes, I am serious. And that's position, mock it if you want. Perhaps I am missing your more "intellectually reasonable" explanation. Have a magical Day!

I think you really, really need to take a deep breath. Or two. This is not a museum. This is a theme park. The "sanctity of Main Street"??? Are you serious?? Should we fall to our knees, genuflect and proceed towards the hub in holy pilgrimage now? Walt's intention was not for this to be a static re-creation of Marcelline. It was to be a street that was an interpretation of what he remembered from his childhood. Do you want them to bring back the horse manure in the middle of the street, too?

I repeat what I have said here (and on a couple of other threads)- corporate sponsorship (and advertising) has been in place since Day 1 both in DL and WDW (including Main Street). There have been signs advertising various Banks over the years, film companies (Kodak and others), as well as the food providers. Your argument that ONLY companies that had start ups at the turn of the century should be permitted to have logos on building exteriors just doesn't make any sense whatever. No one is suggesting that ANY sign should be gigantic billboards and flashing neon to ruin the 'MOOD' and existing design esthetic. I'm not sure why you are assuming that such a move would even be considered.

The mere presence of a sign that says "Starbucks", or "Chase Bank", or "Sara Lee", or "Sealtest"( a former sponsor of the Main Street Ice Cream Parlour), or Hills Bro.s or Maxwell House (former coffee providers before Nestle), GAF and Polaroid (other film sponsors) is not going ruin Main Street forever. The fact is that all of these have had signs on Main Street in the past.

A quiz was given on allears.net last year to test how many people knew the names of the sponsors of various attractions and shops in the various parks. Guess what- most people failed the quiz. The common response was that the sponsor logos on most places were so small that few people even noticed them. I think this is a much more telling result and much more likely to influence future signage that the hysterical wailings of "NOOOOO, Main Street is a Holy Shrine that must never be DESECRATED by crass commercialism!!!!! (but only if it's MODERN crass commercialism- if it's OLD crass commercialism, then it's OK). Yeesh.

ETA: Of course this entire thread (and all the others like it) are all personal opinion (other than those citing published FACTS). If in your opinion Main Street will be irrevocably ruined by placing a sign that says Starbucks under the MSB sign, then you'll have no recourse in the future other than to place a blindfold over your eyes and request a guide to lead you to the hub.

 

[Sammie]

Disney does not do anything without marketing research. I am sure they did surveys about the coffee, as I remember many comments on these forums about how horrible the coffee was.

And probably when asked what coffee do you purchase most, it was Starbucks. I don't drink coffee, but like their spiced cider and am sure many like their hot chocolate. Their scones are very good and the pastry favorites will be still be offered or offered at other locations in the park.

Disney has had corporate sponsors since the first day. Things change, and in a year after this change there will be something new for everyone with the "sky is falling" view of everything to complain about.

Be thankful you can even go to Disney World and experience still the greatest experience ever. Many are not that lucky.

 

[bumbershoot]

Nestle Company c1905
Edy's Ice Cream c1928
Coca Cola c1886


Starbucks c1971

Which one doesn't belong?

You know, Disney wasn't invented back then, either. So Disney doesn't belong there.

I guess so..but one could make the argument that 1971 was the same year WDW was founded.

I like it.

First, the "cult" of Starbucks. There are so many people I know for whom their morning Starbucks is a ritual. People act in a certain way inside a Starbucks (in my town, often hurriedly, rudely, blinders on to the rest of the world until they get their fix), they have their own culture (got the whole country to say 'Venti' instead of 'Large'). People seem proud of how complex and difficult their orders are, as though it's a badge of honor, and the company encourages this.

COFFEE is a ritual. I act like that in the morning while making my coffee. Even when it's not Starbucks, and it usually isn't (though I have a liking for their Veranda all of a sudden, so right now it IS what's here, not Peets, etc). Caffeine addiction isn't pretty.

Venti refers to 20, which refers to a 20 oz beverage. I tend to say the ounces that I want, especially when not at Starbucks or at another location that doesn't use the Italian words for sizing.

I've never met a single person who is "proud" of a complicated order.*

I DO know that Starbucks honors the individual's rights to have the drink that they want. And that's what is behind "complicated" drinks; if you want something that is interesting, they want to make it for you. And I'm pretty impressed by a barista (no matter where they work) who can work as HARD as some baristas work, getting drink after drink made correctly and given to the right person.

I'm typically a "grande latte" person (now that s'bux and many other coffee places use 2% as their normal milk I don't even have to specify the milk) or maybe "iced grande latte", which is pretty simple, but IF I wanted something different, I'm glad to know that they won't mind it.



*I'm proud of *remembering* how to order what I want, if I order something different, because generally I'm remembering it BEFORE I've had my caffeine, and, frankly, I'm generally proud I can get out the door and drive there before having my caffeine! (dangit, gotta work on the addiction again, I slipped back into it after months and months of decaf)

 

[a11ie]

I'm excited for Starbucks. I am also thrilled that so many people want to keep the "sanctity" of Main Street. Does this mean its going to be all "smoking" again? After all, Walt would have wanted to walk down the middle of Main Street USA with a cigar in his mouth... ?

 

[Taytortots]

I should add that I think having Starbucks in the park is fine.
There was McDonalds right at the beginning of the world showcase recently, and in more places i'm sure.
I just don't believe that Main Street is the place to put it.
And personally, i'd much rather see a Tim Hortons than a starbucks.

 

[ArthurFiggis]

I really kind of figured that the people who were all up in arms and Chicken Little-ing about beer and wine being served in MK would be happy that there'd be some new coffee to help sober up the drunks wandering around Main Street.

You want to talk about destroying childhood memories? Two words: Future World.

 

[WDSearcher]

I thought i'd jump in here for a second, even though I haven't spoken yet.
I also believe in keeping the sanctity of main street. By this I don't mean that Disney is in any way my religion or Disney World is holy ground. I believe in it keeping with it's theming.
And so what if people would like it to stay the same. Is that so wrong? Why can't main street be a sacred thing for some people? I know my mother walks into the park, and remembers her grandfather, now passed, taking her to Disney for the first time when she was a child. And that's a cherished memory. There are many memories there, and I can understand perfectly why somebody wouldn't want main street to be changed.
Main street sets the stage for the entire park. You go in, and you're supposed to be transported into the magic (so to speak). Starbucks isn't exactly magical in any sort of way. On on top of that Main street bakery is quite beloved. And, yes, they say they will keep some old favourites, but not all of them.
Personally, i'd like to see things stay the same.

I totally get that, but if you really wanted things to stay the same, think about all of the things you now love that would not be there. Even Walt said that Disney would never be finished -- it would always be changing. And I really fail to see how adding a Starbucks logo to a wall on Main Street will cause your mother's memory of her grandfather taking her to Disney for the first time to be any less cherished. I imagine that the memory that she cherishes is of her grandfather, not so much the logo that was on the Main Street Bakery at the time.

And really ... Coca-Cola isn't magical in any way either, but it's been there all along. Edy's? Not really magical. Kodak? Nope. Carnation? Uh-uh. The Nestle logo that was on the bakery before the refurb (and the Sara Lee logo before that) also hold no magic. The magic isn't in the stuff or the brands or the merchandising partners. Never has been.

 

[a11ie]

The magic isn't in the stuff or the brands or the merchandising partners. Never has been.

Yesssss!

 

[Sammie]

I totally get that, but if you really wanted things to stay the same, think about all of the things you now love that would not be there. Even Walt said that Disney would never be finished -- it would always be changing. And I really fail to see how adding a Starbucks logo to a wall on Main Street will cause your mother's memory of her grandfather taking her to Disney for the first time to be any less cherished. I imagine that the memory that she cherishes is of her grandfather, not so much the logo that was on the Main Street Bakery at the time.

And really ... Coca-Cola isn't magical in any way either, but it's been there all along. Edy's? Not really magical. Kodak? Nope. Carnation? Uh-uh. The Nestle logo that was on the bakery before the refurb (and the Sara Lee logo before that) also hold no magic. The magic isn't in the stuff or the brands or the merchandising partners. Never has been.

Actually Coca-Cola was probably very magical back at the beginning as it had cocaine in it.

 

[WDSearcher]

Actually Coca-Cola was probably very magical back at the beginning as it had cocaine in it.

Well ... yeah ... there's that ....

 

[wdvak]

You do understand this is unprecendented don't you?
You do understand Walt's intention of Main Street don't you?
You do understand the importance and sanctity of Main Street don't you?

Have you ever read a Walt Disney biography?

Do you just look at WDW as a "theme park" in need of some decent coffee?

Yes, I am serious. And that's position, mock it if you want. Perhaps I am missing your more "intellectually reasonable" explanation. Have a magical Day!

The "sanctity of Main Street" has always been to have corporate sponsors. When Walt Disney opened Disneyland there was The Carnation Shoppe, with a big sign, which is still there today as The Carnation Cafe. I think you are reading a little too much into what Walt wanted as he had no misgivings about sponsors on Main Street or elsewhere in the parks and resort. This was one of his way of doing business. The contracts have certain requirements such as cast member costuming etc that both Disney and the sponsor agree to. I understand wanting to keep our favorite things at a certain place and time, but the reality is things, in this case sponsors, change.

 

[Taytortots]

I totally get that, but if you really wanted things to stay the same, think about all of the things you now love that would not be there. Even Walt said that Disney would never be finished -- it would always be changing. And I really fail to see how adding a Starbucks logo to a wall on Main Street will cause your mother's memory of her grandfather taking her to Disney for the first time to be any less cherished. I imagine that the memory that she cherishes is of her grandfather, not so much the logo that was on the Main Street Bakery at the time.

And really ... Coca-Cola isn't magical in any way either, but it's been there all along. Edy's? Not really magical. Kodak? Nope. Carnation? Uh-uh. The Nestle logo that was on the bakery before the refurb (and the Sara Lee logo before that) also hold no magic. The magic isn't in the stuff or the brands or the merchandising partners. Never has been.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on what I meant to say.
I was just trying to say that many people may have memories in Main Street bakery, that's all, and giving an example of my mom who I know cherishes certain places in Magic Kingdom.
And you are correct, it's not in the brands. I wont be broken hearted if they put a Starbucks in. As long as it keeps to the theming main street is known for. But would I like it to stay the same? Yes.

 

[Dr.Girlfriend]

Country Bear Jamboree used to be sponsored by Pepsi and Frito Lay. Henry would still announces, “Just refrain from hibernatin’... and we’ll all enjoy the show, cause we got a lot to give!”—a reference to Pepsi Cola’s 1969-1973 slogan, “ You've got a lot to live, Pepsi’s got a lot to give!”

Town Square is sponsored by Kodak.

Dole sponsors Aloha Isle.

FedEx used to sponsor Space Mountain. I'm fairly certain that RCA once sponsored them as well.

Look around at some of the Dream Builders signs - Stanley sponsors that.

Nestle sponsors the ice cream carts.

Philharmagic is sponsored by Kodak.

Brawny and Sparkle sponsor the paper towels.

Smuckers sponsors Tankee Trader.

Minute Maid sponsors Enchanted Grove.

Craisins sponsors Liberty Tree.

If you're worried about your favorite food disappearing, it's not being discontinued - it's either going to be there and look like this:

or it's going to be in another park of the park.

Remember, other attractions of yesterday were also sponsored by companies, and their logos were proudly displayed. This is no different. Be happy (and impressed) that Starbucks is going to blend in with Main Street versus looking like the cookie cutter coffee shop it is every where else.

 

[TDC Nala]

I can think of at least three corporate brands that are prominently displayed on Main Street now, why is this one going to be any different.

 

[Dr.Girlfriend]

The "sanctity of Main Street" has always been to have corporate sponsors. When Walt Disney opened Disneyland there was The Carnation Shoppe, with a big sign, which is still there today as The Carnation Cafe. I think you are reading a little too much into what Walt wanted as he had no misgivings about sponsors on Main Street or elsewhere in the parks and resort. This was one of his way of doing business. The contracts have certain requirements such as cast member costuming etc that both Disney and the sponsor agree to. I understand wanting to keep our favorite things at a certain place and time, but the reality is things, in this case sponsors, change.

You are correct.

This is a scan of a park map, showing Main Street in 1973. Look at the sponsors.

They've always been there.

 

[Dr.Girlfriend]

And heck, for comparison, here is Main Street in 1985:

Sponsors (and each had a sign with the sponsor name):
Sealtest Ice Cream
Coca-Cola
Colombian Coffee Growers
Orville Redenbacher
Gibson Greeting Cards
Kodak
See's Candies
Smucker's
Arribas Brothers
Sun Bank
Hormel

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

There's a big difference between a "sponsor" and a storefront. I am glad Disney listened to the uproar and has changed the plan from it being a storefront to it simply being served in the MSB. I feel that's totally different.

By sanctity, I wasn't inferring it was a place of "worship", sanctity merely meant that it should be respected and unchanged because of it's importance.

In my opinion, if they went ahead with the Starbucks storefront and opened that door, it would be a fine line being crossed and pave the way for other stores not in keeping with the Main Street "feel". I was imagining an AT&T store where you can charge your iphone and similar places that would completely ruin the purpose and design of Main Street. I am all for a decent cup of coffee at WDW, but not at the expense of theming.

 

[Burnedout]

Lol, I doubt they changed anything except the wording.

 

[siskaren]

There's a big difference between a "sponsor" and a storefront. I am glad Disney listened to the uproar and has changed the plan from it being a storefront to it simply being served in the MSB. I feel that's totally different.

I don't think they changed the plan at all; I think they just realized from all the uproar that they hadn't been clear in the way they worded it. They just did a major refurb of the bakery's storefront, they weren't going to turn around and re-do it to make it look like a traditional Starbucks.