Lower than low resales...

[JSjoquist]

I can't speak for Miss. but SSR has had a significant impact on availability on or after the 7 month window, IMO.

Well that was what I thought they were getting at, but wasn't sure. I too just last week tried to get a studio in early Feb and was shut out at my home resort (BCV) and VWL. Fortunately I was able to get BWV Garden/pool view.

Unfortunately I was not able to plan this trip earlier and was surprised to see the lack of availability. A couple years ago we planned a similar trip with less than 2 weeks notice and got our first choice.

No matter, I'm still walking distance to EPCOT, and will be in my happy place for 5 wonderful days.

 

[tjkraz]

I can't speak for Miss. but SSR has had a significant impact on availability on or after the 7 month window, IMO.

In addition, we've also had a greater level of 11-month bookings over the last few years. It wasn't all that long ago that people could call weeks or months after the 11-month mark to book early-December reservations. Now it's a daily event in January to celebrate those bookings.

I don't think you can blame SSR for that one. During high demand periods people started getting shut out by their fellow resort owners. They've since learned to plan vacations further in advance and book before the 7 month window even arrives.

And we've also seen more people buying small add-ons at favored resorts in order to get the 11 month booking window. This is an extension of the old "buy where you want to stay" mantra which pre-dated SSR. Years ago people would buy all of their points at a single resort and frequently use them for other resorts at 7 months. Now we keep reminding people about the possibility of getting shut out, which has lead to more small add-ons and more 11-month bookings.

With websites like this becoming ever more mainstream, members are much more educated than they were just 5 years ago. Although the stats aren't available, I suspect the percentage of reservations made before the 7-month window is noticeably higher today than it was 5-7 years ago.

I'm not saying this to take away from your point--just to illustrate that there are other reasons for short notice availability issues than SSR owners booking outside of their Home.

One other point: It's interesting to note that JSjoquist could not book BCV or VWL 5 months out, but did get into BWV. If we assume that demand is similar for those three resorts, surely it's no coincidence that BWV (the largest of the three) had a room available while the two smaller properties did not. This plays into my comments suggesting that the mere fact that BCV may book up before SSR does not truly say much about demand. Size DOES matter.

And, despite what other posters in this thread have suggested, clearly SSR owners did not flock to book BWV for those dates since we're weeks into the 7 month window. If we buy into some of the F.U.D. presented here, one would think that there were zero reservations at SSR for mid-February since BWV still had availability.

 

[tjkraz]

BTW, for those who haven't looked lately, there are now 27 AKV contracts for sale at The Timeshare Store vs 120 at SSR.

Unless I'm mistaken the only AKV contracts that could even be listed for sale are those at Jambo. Kidani sales wouldn't have even closed yet due to ongoing construction.

And there are 6.5 times as many rooms at SSR compared to AKV Jambo.

It's the economy, people! See crisi's post here. (Either that or people buying with great incentives who have every intention of "flipping" the contract a few months later after stripping it of points. And both resorts would be equally susceptible to that phenomenon.)

 

[kikiq]

Lighting is a disgrace as well. Walking from your room to the main building at night through dark parking lots and a far distance from security is a creepy experience for some guests (or I should say at least for my wife who wouldn't make the trek herself at night.)

Where did you stay when you stayed at SSR? We were there this summer in Congress Park. Didn't have to go through any dark parking lots or cross more than the road that went into the golf course. We didn't use bell services when our DDs left WDW at 3am in the morning, we walked along lighted paths and street, took us 6 minutes (I timed it because people are always complaining how far everything is apart). The only section that would have to cross a road to get to a pool is the Springs section. And at night that's a pretty well lit area. Plus during the day, even during the busy summer time, it wasn't "crowded with cars and buses".

It's your perspective of SSR and it is quite different than mine. I understand the POV of SSR being overbuilt and the supposed impact of SSR owners not staying at SSR and "god forbid" want to stay at another resort once in awhile. I thought that was one of MY options was to at 7 months stay at another resort if I so choose. And why do you assume that SSR owners are so eager to NOT stay at our home resort? I like staying at SSR and will probably try BWV and AKV some day for a couple of days. I think there are more SSR owners that LIKE/LOVE their "home" then you seem to think.

 

[tidefan]

Why bother to comment on a resort if you haven't even stayed there yet? Comment on facts you know, like decor (I'm sure you've seen pictures) or location. Other than that, it is just your opinion, like everyone else's comments here.

I hate threads that pit one resort over another. I love the fact that Disney has many different resorts in which to choose from, providing hopefully a different experience with each resort. I am excited to try them all...would I buy at some, no. But that is just my preference, doesn't mean there is something WRONG with the resort.

Sorry. Didn't mean to get you riled up. I have never stayed at the Boardwalk, but I have been to it many, many times. It definitely is a fun place to stay on an evening. That said, it just seems to me that the noise from the Boardwalk would be quite a bit, that's all. I don't think that the B-walk is bad at all, just wouldn't be my first place to pick.

Doesn't mean it's a bad place at all. Far from it. Kind of like if I preferred to visit London and you preferred to visit Paris. Both great places, but we may have our own reasons for liking one over the other. Doesn't mean we don't like the other.

 

[Dean]

I don't think you can blame SSR for that one. During high demand periods people started getting shut out by their fellow resort owners. They've since learned to plan vacations further in advance and book before the 7 month window even arrives.

While there are other factors, I do believe the extra points at the 7 month window have had a major impact on the 11 month reservations due to the trickle down effect basically for the reason you mentioned. It goes like this. Now it's harder or impossible to book at the 7 month window as we've discussed here so some members who routinely waited to around 7 months or after are pushed back into their home resort window. But that extra competition at say 8-9 months, affects others in a similar way all the way back to the 11 month window. The other main factor I feel is simply education of the member. I don't know that the add ons are much or any different than in the past but certainly the "buy where you want to stay" philosophy in general has likely had an impact.

I'm not saying this to take away from your point--just to illustrate that there are other reasons for short notice availability issues than SSR owners booking outside of their Home.

One other point: It's interesting to note that JSjoquist could not book BCV or VWL 5 months out, but did get into BWV. If we assume that demand is similar for those three resorts, surely it's no coincidence that BWV (the largest of the three) had a room available while the two smaller properties did not. This plays into my comments suggesting that the mere fact that BCV may book up before SSR does not truly say much about demand. Size DOES matter.

Like developer points which are actually SSR points in disguise along with other ROFR points. As for the BWV availability, these posts and thread's are, or should be, about the overall scenario. There is still about half the year when one can be successful on shorter notice for almost anything with a few limited exceptions, Feb tends to be one of those times. There have been times when BCV and VWL were available but not BWV for example. It's the big picture that's the issue of discussion in my mind. And it will likely be a moving target over the years but it'll certainly take a LOT more destination units than 300 at BLT to affect the 11 month availability related to this discussion. And finally those of us who are well versed and willing to play the game can be successful with almost anything even at 7 months out.

 

[DVC Mike]

This thread has been an interesting read.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Sorry. Didn't mean to get you riled up. I have never stayed at the Boardwalk, but I have been to it many, many times. It definitely is a fun place to stay on an evening. That said, it just seems to me that the noise from the Boardwalk would be quite a bit, that's all. I don't think that the B-walk is bad at all, just wouldn't be my first place to pick.

Doesn't mean it's a bad place at all. Far from it. Kind of like if I preferred to visit London and you preferred to visit Paris. Both great places, but we may have our own reasons for liking one over the other. Doesn't mean we don't like the other.

Me riled up? No way. The tone of this thread has finally shifted to one of constructive discussion instead of resort bashing. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I, and we all should be aware of hurting others as we do discuss. There is no gain in making hurtful comments, and I try to bring awareness when possible, that self serving opinions aren't to be tolerated. Lets all just play nice!!

 

[janni518]

Me riled up? No way. The tone of this thread has finally shifted to one of constructive discussion instead of resort bashing. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I, and we all should be aware of hurting others as we do discuss. There is no gain in making hurtful comments, and I try to bring awareness when possible, that self serving opinions aren't to be tolerated. Lets all just play nice!!

I was glad to see the shift to an actual discussion instead of bashing and glad I stuck with it. I feel I've learned somethings, and have some things to think about, so I thank you all for that.

Just a note:

If you really want to be heard might I gently suggest keep your comments free of personal attacks. I'm sure I'm not the only person who skips over the posts of those people I see repeatedly post in an "aggressive" manner.

I'm going to keep that in mind for my own future posts.

 

[1-407-WDWJUNKIE]

BTW, for those who haven't looked lately, there are now 27 AKV contracts for sale at The Timeshare Store vs 120 at SSR.

Unless I'm mistaken the only AKV contracts that could even be listed for sale are those at Jambo. Kidani sales wouldn't have even closed yet due to ongoing construction.

I've been following this thread for a while, and am finally gonna throw my 2 cents in.

Here's the thing I hate about throwing out statistics. Yes they are factual but generally can be used to support any point. To say there are 27 AKV vs 120 SSR are for sale is very misleading if you look at the actual resales. A full 18 (or 2/3) of the AKV resales are 100 points or less (and 13 being 60 points or less). Furthermore, most of those are a single seller listing small contracts together (because they bought their add on in multiple small contracts). So in reality there are 21 people listing their points, not 28. By comparison there are only 10 small contracts (100 or less) for sale for SSR out of all 120 or so (I didn't count). The number of points per contract on sale at SSR is higher, and after all wouldn't the total number of points for sale between the two resorts be the accurate way to compare inventory for sale, considering points IS inventory, rather than number of contracts?

Which is all to say why all the facts and figures means nothing to me, and IMHO should be taken with a grain of salt. Most people digging up facts and figures are doing it to try and make a point and so pick and present them to support their viewpoint rather than looking at them objectionably - often they do this unconsciously.

I'm not trying to attack anyones viewpoint here, I'm just pointing out why I think all these facts and figures should be taken with a grain of salt.

I also think this moment in time is bnot a good indicator of the resale market in general. I think a ton of people are dumping other resorts to add on at BLT and that creates a lot of distortion of the long term resale value of these resorts.

What does mean something to me is that every time I have called MS, what I want is available at SSR, and sometimes only at SSR. It is the only resort I can say that about. So to me there is no advantage to owning there - the 11 month window means nothing at SSR if it is always available. Granted I don't ever get Grand Villas, and the Treehouses may change this, but really it is the only resort with effectively no 11 month booking advantage for most owners.

I don't hate the place, and actually considered switching my BCV Studio to a SSR 1 BR because I just got some of those SSR Development points and Stormalong bay is going to be (partially?) closed during our stay - but even then decided to stay at BCV.

I think having the least desirable place to own at (note I said own, rather than stay - I know some people love it) also be the largest single resort inventory-wise is a factor and will continue to be for SSR resales. As an impact on availability at other resorts I am sure it is a factor, as are all the other factors that have been mentioned (amount of inventory of course being a big factor) - but that will lessen over time as more resorts come on line, particularly more 'desirable' resorts, enter the system. BLT will have a big inventory and should prove to be a very desirable location, and should have an immediate positive effect on the availability at other popular resorts once it is fully up and running.

Ok, that was way more than $.02 worth, and I apologise for the long post.

 

[tjkraz]

To say there are 27 AKV vs 120 SSR are for sale is very misleading if you look at the actual resales. A full 18 (or 2/3) of the AKV resales are 100 points or less (and 13 being 60 points or less). Furthermore, most of those are a single seller listing small contracts together (because they bought their add on in multiple small contracts). So in reality there are 21 people listing their points, not 28. By comparison there are only 10 small contracts (100 or less) for sale for SSR out of all 120 or so (I didn't count).

While I'll take your word that the above is true for AKV, what about SSR? Do we know how many sellers are involved there? How many of the SSR contracts were purchased due to attractive incentives (APs, developer's points, etc.) with the intention of reselling months or years later?

Why single out AKV contracts under 60 points? Anything under 150 is an add-on and even those 150+ could have been add-ons which were acquired to gain incentives.

The number of points per contract on sale at SSR is higher, and after all wouldn't the total number of points for sale between the two resorts be the accurate way to compare inventory for sale, considering points IS inventory, rather than number of contracts?

Probably true. If you wish to come up with those numbers, please share them with us!

Which is all to say why all the facts and figures means nothing to me, and IMHO should be taken with a grain of salt.

I totally agree. And just to clarify, I really wasn't trying to suggest some direct correlation between the figures.

All I was attempting to illustrate that there are many other reasons for points being on the resale market than the alleged "people are fleeing SSR in droves for other resorts because DVC lied to them!!!!"

Regardless of how the two resorts compare with one another in terms of resale ratios, there's clearly something going on with both SSR and AKV. We cannot make assumptions about why there are so many SSR contracts available while completely ignoring the AKV numbers. Similar market forces are impacting both properties, and it's not just the "I hate SSR" factor.

I also think this moment in time is bnot a good indicator of the resale market in general. I think a ton of people are dumping other resorts to add on at BLT and that creates a lot of distortion of the long term resale value of these resorts.

Perhaps. But the BLT was just announced 13 days ago and the volume of SSR contracts hasn't increased noticeably. Maybe in another month we'll have a better idea if that's happening or not.

I still think it's mostly the economy. As crisi pointed out, SSR and AKV owners are the ones most likely to have financed. For most, selling now not only means the relief of not making the monthly payments, but many may even get some return back on their investment (assuming they paid off a chunk of the principle.)

And to keep things in perspective, I really don't think the current numbers are all that far off from what we would expect to see in a healthy economy. Even when things are good it's commonplace to see 20-30 contracts listed at any given resort. With SSR being so much larger, 60-70 may be its norm. So right now we're seeing and additional 50 owners who find themselves either in dire financial straits, looking to buy at one of the newer resorts, etc.

While those numbers are hurting the amount buyers can command on the market, again they doesn't do much to support the tired SSR bashing routine.

...but really it is the only resort with effectively no 11 month booking advantage for most owners.

Treehouses, Grand Villas, low dues, low price point, additional years of ownership, etc. I'd say there are more than a few good reasons to own there.

Did DVC make mistakes with SSR? Yeah, I'll agree they could have done several things differently. But the its size will always make it the last resort to completely fill.

Despite the large rooms, low points and attractive theming, five years ago OKW was consistently the last resort available. Why? It was the biggest.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Knowing me like you do, would you discount my opinion in such a situation, I'm betting not but it would be your choice. That's why I prefaced by referring to experienced people.

No, never Dean!! Experienced people is the operative word! You, YES!! Others, well it takes me a very long time to ascertain that attribute.

 

[Dean]

As noted, there are many other factors in resales. These include the age and situation of those who bought. I suspect that newer owners tend to be younger than those that have owned longer and that they are likely to be in less secure financial situation and possibly more at risk during the economic downturn.

I'd also point out that there was a rash of SSR resales even before the resort opened as many bought, got the developer points then tried to sell at a break even thus pocketing the developer points, a large portion for the min to get the additional purchase perks.. Personally I'm not convinced that the number of resales are that tied to resort demand though I am convinced the prices are.

No, never Dean!! Experienced people is the operative word! You, YES!! Others, well it takes me a very long time to ascertain that attribute.

There is info one can get from staying you can't get otherwise but not that much related to hardware issues but more related to soft goods type info like helpfulness of the staff, housekeeping, etc. There are also things like bus patterns and the annoyance of distance. It is my feeling that DVC members tend to be overly optimistic and that there are far more people that thought they'd enjoy a given resort and decided they didn't after staying than the reverse. The other issue is that DVC is such a tight nit group of resorts that the variations are far smaller than every other timeshare or hotel system I can think of making the variations that do occur far more obvious and meaningful for some people.

My suggestion would be to read the post and others from the same author to see how to take their information. I think it's a mistake to completely discount posts simply on the fact that a person hasn't stayed at a given resort or did so when it was still developing. Look at the overall package. If they bought 6 months ago and haven't even stayed at DVC yet their opinion likely isn't well versed and we did see a lot of those posts in 2004 both pro and con. If they've owned for 6-10 years and stayed at most DVC resorts over a given time I'd at least take their opinion seriously even if one disagrees with it.

 

[tidefan]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I, and we all should be aware of hurting others as we do discuss. There is no gain in making hurtful comments, and I try to bring awareness when possible, that self serving opinions aren't to be tolerated. Lets all just play nice!!

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I didn't know that just stating a personal preference for one location over another was hurtful. I went back and read my post and there was certainly nothing inflammatory in there...

Heck, my favorite WDW resort is the Wilderness Lodge (have stayed in rooms, not villas), but it is DW's least favorite, go figure. Just different strokes for different folks, but I don't take it as hurtful...

 

[tidefan]

Originally Posted by tidefan
My least favorite resort is BWV. I hedge this a bit as I have not stayed there, but I have been on the boardwalk numerous times. While I like the boardwalk, I think that it would be way to noisy for a relaxing vacation. I reserve the right to change that opinion if I ever stay there.

I hate threads that pit one resort over another. I love the fact that Disney has many different resorts in which to choose from, providing hopefully a different experience with each resort. I am excited to try them all...would I buy at some, no. But that is just my preference, doesn't mean there is something WRONG with the resort.

Ahh, maybe this is the one. I don't think I came across in the right way to you. I don't mean to imply in any way that there is anything wrong with the Boardwalk at all. Sorry if I came across that way. In fact, I really like the area and I can see why so many like it, but it's just not for me.

I still do not think that it is/was inflammatory...

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I didn't know that just stating a personal preference for one location over another was hurtful. I went back and read my post and there was certainly nothing inflammatory in there...

Heck, my favorite WDW resort is the Wilderness Lodge (have stayed in rooms, not villas), but it is DW's least favorite, go figure. Just different strokes for different folks, but I don't take it as hurtful...

No Tidefan, my comment was not directed at you! We are cool, okay? Those posters know exactly whom I am speaking about. Nothing more needs to be said. Friends Tidefan

 

[mel&me]

I hate threads about people who hate threads about hating a specific resort.

After all, it's just your opinion.

And you have stated your opinion about SSR over and over and over.
75 posts and how many about SSR. Do the math on that one.

This thread has been an interesting read.

Yes it has.

 

[Brian430]

Actually I don't mind people attacking me personally I just wish a group of adults could find a way to have a conversation without resorting to all of these overly cute : icons. They're not only distracting But some people don't know how to use them : properly

Like when someone hasn't even said something funny and drops in these

Seems like a crutch to me when you can't think of something interesting to write on your own :

 

[Brian430]

And Mel - apparently you've read everyone of them.

While I, on the other hand, have never been compelled to do the same with your posts.

You know what that comeback calls for don't ya?

 

[Ali and boyz]

I like having the parking lots at OKW close to our rooms. Hauling luggage longer distances isn't appealing to me at all. And yes, all buildings at OKW are accessed by going through their parking areas. Apparently, condo style resorts are just not for you. It doesn't mean that SSR is badly imagineered, it simply means that you, personally, may be more comfortable in a hotel style resort with room service, valet parking, and having to wait for bell services to haul your luggage.

With the addition of the Treehouse Villas, SSR is basically spread out just as much as it was when it was Disney Institute/Disney Village resort.

same here

Hey jdg,


Plain and simple, it's all about misplacement of the roads and parking lots.

Look at Port Orleans, which is a similar sized resort just up the river. Here, Disney placed all of the roads and parking lots on the perimeter of the property. What this allowed them to do was to create a lushly landscaped haven on the inside of the resort. The buildings are also closer to the signature pool and main building/food court etc.

Once you park your car you don't have to deal with the mess of the parking lots and roads any more. You're on vacation.

Or look at how Disney dealt with its parking lots at Vero and Hilton Head, which they placed beneath the buildings. It not only saves space, but gets rid of an eye soar and gives Disney's talented landscape team a great stage to strut their stuff.

The placement of the main building and pool is also misguided. There is no reason that a resort of this size should place the hub of activity on one side of the property forcing many guests to trek ridiculous distances (especially if you're forcing them to walk across roads in the process). That building should be in the center of the property with guest buildings ringing it. But DVC opted to use the existing Disney Institute check-in area to save money. Only problem is Disney Institute was never designed to support a resort of this size.

Lighting is a disgrace as well. Walking from your room to the main building at night through dark parking lots and a far distance from security is a creepy experience for some guests (or I should say at least for my wife who wouldn't make the trek herself at night.)

I would also better leverage the value of the old Disney Institute buildings. They already have the making of a perfect town square at that resort - complete with a movie theater - but they haven't done anything with it.

Now picture in your mind's eye the same theming and building design of Saratoga but where the parking lots have been replaced with fields of grass, and gardens and fountains. Picture an open piazza area where musicians could stroll. Picture a miniature downtown district with quaint shops and restaurants and a movie theater (which is already there, but remains unused to save money).

Simply placing the parking lots on the perimeter of the property (forget underground if you want to be cheap, although DVC makes ridiculous amounts of money) would have made all the difference in the world. Which tells me they didn't take the time to think this through and to conduct 3D models of car and pedestrian traffic. They went for the cheapest solution - a condo complex layout.

At one time, SSR held the potential to be Disney's best DVC property yet - and the sheer magnitude of this resort should have behooved them to at least make an attempt.

Instead this a huge resort that turned into a huge missed opportunity.

maybe plain and simple to you but for us whose son is confined to a wheelchair the parking for us is a huge plus factor at SSR and for that reason the likes of BW and similar don't work for us.