LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[cakebaker]

Let me put it this way, if I had a new product that was generating as many negative reviews as FP+ is, I would be pooping bricks! Most companies are concerned when their approval ratings drop below 80%.

You have a link to the source of that particular stat?

I dunno, I think they're pretty sure they're doing ok. Record attendance and profit does not tell a company they're on the wrong track.

 

[BugsDaddy]

The great thing about capitalism is that the people get to vote on the products they like and do not like (under most circumstances). I think Disney would find it encouraging that even those that claim to hate FP+ are rushing back to plan their next trip. The only opinion that truly matters is the opinion that causes a consumer to flex their purchasing power. If the end result of change is positive to the bottom line, the detractors are either not truly too upset about the change or don't understand their role in encouraging change The rest is just noise.

 

[JimmyV]

You have a link to the source of that particular stat?

I dunno, I think they're pretty sure they're doing ok. Record attendance and profit does not tell a company they're on the wrong track.

But when increased profits are linked to increased prices, you have to be careful. You can't raise prices by 4%-6% every year. Or at least, we better hope not.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I don't think you are in the minority. I think a lot of people who are capable of making the technology work for them are enjoying the same success.

Paper fast passes were on their way out, FP+ or not. It was just a matter of what system would replace it. Digital everything is the future. Either people adapt or they get left behind. Some people have a hard time giving up things that are comfortable for them. Technology isn't comfortable for everyone.

This controversy here is not about adapting to modern technology. Reserving and locking in park days and rides 60 days in advance is not the inevitable March of Progress. Nor is ride tiering and limiting families to only 1 "E ticket" ride per day, unless they jump through hoops first.

And as far as new technology goes, it sounds like there are a lot more glitches than most people usually associate with "progress".

Imagine if ATM machines were introduced in such a way that you were strongly encouraged to reserve your withdrawals 60 days in advance ... and you couldn't always get the exact amount you wanted ... the rules for when you could reserve your cash withdrawal were arbitrary and mysterious ... and sometimes your reservations for cash withdrawals mysteriously disappeared from the system. Time Marches On? I don't think so.

The motivation behind this change had nothing to do with eliminating paper to save the environment, or adapting and catching up to new technology. This is all about "ride rationing" in order to make higher profits by forcing customers to be more predictable and less demanding of expensive, labor-intensive thrill rides and character interactions, while still paying the same amount (or more) money.

 

[BugsDaddy]

The argument that "The Dis is a small sliver of all guests" cuts both ways. It is frequently stated that the number of complainers is disproportionately represented here. The same can be said of the praisers. From my own observation of visitors who have returned from their trips and who are not Dis Nuts, the level of dissatisfaction with FP+ is rather high. Not necessarily because they liked the old system better. But because they felt left out due to the fact that "Disney experts" were better at using the system and getting "the best stuff". The percentage of people who know to get on line at midnight to get A&E is disproportionately represented here. The average guest does not do that. And gets shut out. And is left with a negative impression. That same person may not have made RD under the old system and may not have gotten a FP for TSMM. But that is beside the point. They aren't in love with the new system and that is all that matters now.

I totally agree. In fact, the only good measurement for the guests satisfaction or dissatisfaction is whether or not they continue to purchase the product especially in the competitive fight for entertainment dollars in the theme park market. I think Disney has probably held their own pretty well. I would guess that the majority of people that are either dissatisfied or unsure about FP+ will not change their Disney trip planning much if at all and that number will reduce even more in a few years. A net gain for Disney over the long haul.

 

[Cormoran]

Well, Disney has lost about $ 3000 of my vacation budget. No, not all of my budget , but I'm spending a lot less at Disney.

As for the 80% approval rating, I'm refering to my own company and their reaction to a drop below 80%. All of a sudden they're implementing guest recovery initiatives.

 

[cakebaker]

Well, Disney has lost about $ 3000 of my vacation budget. No, not all of my budget , but I'm spending a lot less at Disney.

As for the 80% approval rating, I'm refering to my own company and their reaction to a drop below 80%. All of a sudden they're implementing guest recovery initiatives.

So you aren't saying Disney has an 80% approval rating????

 

[Rebekkap]

Well, Disney has lost about $ 3000 of my vacation budget. No, not all of my budget , but I'm spending a lot less at Disney.

As for the 80% approval rating, I'm refering to my own company and their reaction to a drop below 80%. All of a sudden they're implementing guest recovery initiatives.

That may be balanced out by people like me spending more. I'm returning only a year after my last trip, all the way from Australia. Partly because I love FP+ so I know even at a busy time of year I'm going to get to ride everything I really care about riding, without standing in long queues, which I hate. And I'm tentatively planning a 2016 trip too.

 

[cakebaker]

But when increased profits are linked to increased prices, you have to be careful. You can't raise prices by 4%-6% every year. Or at least, we better hope not.

I won't get into the argument of where the profit came from. We don't have near enough information for either of us to argue that point. They had more people thru the gate and that tells the real story. More people are coming.

 

[cakebaker]

That may be balanced out by people like me spending more. I'm returning only a year after my last trip, all the way from Australia. Partly because I love FP+ so I know even at a busy time of year I'm going to get to ride everything I really care about riding, without standing in long queues, which I hate. And I'm tentatively planning a 2016 trip too.

And we're going for our 3rd trip in less than a year- the most we've ever visited. What business they're losing, they'll make up with new guests and higher spending by those guests.

 

[Cormoran]

Let me put it this way, if I had a new product that was generating as many negative reviews as FP+ is, I would be pooping bricks! Most companies are concerned when their approval ratings drop below 80%.

This is exactly what I wrote. I never said anything about the approval rating of FP plus.

 

[Cormoran]

That may be balanced out by people like me spending more. I'm returning only a year after my last trip, all the way from Australia. Partly because I love FP+ so I know even at a busy time of year I'm going to get to ride everything I really care about riding, without standing in long queues, which I hate. And I'm tentatively planning a 2016 trip too.

So you like FP plus because you've got 3 rides with shorter waits. But what about the rides that never had or needed FP and now have longer stand by lines?

 

[JimmyV]

I won't get into the argument of where the profit came from. We don't have near enough information for either of us to argue that point. They had more people thru the gate and that tells the real story. More people are coming.

Well, when you used the phrase "on the right track" in conjunction with a discussion about FP+, it seemed as if you were drawing a connection. The corporate statements regarding the last quarterly report clearly mentions price increases and profit increases in the same sentence. And mentions DLR in the same sentence as WDW. Since DLR does not have MM+, and no mention was made of MM+ in the reference to profit, one can draw a different conclusion than "FP+ is working to increase profit". But I agree that we probably don't have the whole story.

 

[BugsDaddy]

This controversy here is not about adapting to modern technology. Reserving and locking in park days and rides 60 days in advance is not the inevitable March of Progress. Nor is ride tiering and limiting families to only 1 "E ticket" ride per day, unless they jump through hoops first.

And as far as new technology goes, it sounds like there are a lot more glitches than most people usually associate with "progress".

Imagine if ATM machines were introduced in such a way that you were strongly encouraged to reserve your withdrawals 60 days in advance ... and you couldn't always get the exact amount you wanted ... the rules for when you could reserve your cash withdrawal were arbitrary and mysterious ... and sometimes your reservations for cash withdrawals mysteriously disappeared from the system. Time Marches On? I don't think so.

The motivation behind this change had nothing to do with eliminating paper to save the environment, or adapting and catching up to new technology. This is all about "ride rationing" in order to make higher profits by forcing customers to be more predictable and less demanding of expensive, labor-intensive thrill rides and character interactions, while still paying the same amount (or more) money.

So, basically you are saying that Disney consumers are all predictable sheep who are being conditioned to serve the needs of "the man".

Your comparison to ATM machines doesn't quite draw the comparison you might think it does. I would rethink that. That's like comparing apples to oranges.

Progress is always a little painful. Growing pains so to speak.

I think ithat the technolgy does intimidate some people who are not savy in those things. Not all people and that is not the only reason people dislike FP+. I never claimed anything different.

 

[Cormoran]

I won't get into the argument of where the profit came from. We don't have near enough information for either of us to argue that point. They had more people thru the gate and that tells the real story. More people are coming.

I don't see how you could argue about where Disney's increased revenue came from since they're the ones who said it was from price increases.

 

[cakebaker]

This is exactly what I wrote. I never said anything about the approval rating of FP plus.

I didn't say you did.

I said: So you aren't saying Disney has an 80% approval rating????

The question remains- Are you claiming Disney has an 80% approval rating?

I don't see how you could argue about where Disney's increased revenue came from since they're the ones who said it was from price increases.

No, that is an incomplete and therefore an inaccurate statement.

 

[BugsDaddy]

So you like FP plus because you've got 3 rides with shorter waits. But what about the rides that never had or needed FP and now have longer stand by lines?

I think this person is smart enough to determine on their own how they feel about something without having to be told how to feel about it.

 

[MrInfinity]

Nor is ride tiering and limiting families to only 1 "E ticket" ride per day, unless they jump through hoops first.

Hi Josh,
In case you didn't know, the "limiting" as you call it on E-ticket rides is because Soarin and Test Track (the 2 e-ticket rides at epcot) can handle a combined 30,000 guests. There are 50,000 guests at Epcot in a day.

So. Even if you give out 2/3 of the ridings as Fastpass, that is only 20,000 passes to go around, to 50,000 guests. So even if every guest gets exactly 1, 30,000 guests will still get none. If you wish to remove tiering (aka get 2 for yourself) then you must be able to point to some guest (or class of guest) that you feel should not get any in trade.

That is the problem. Before, if you pulled 3... if even 5,000 guests pulled 3... that is it! Done. Nobody else gets any. 15,000 FP's down the drain to 5,000 out of 50,000 guests. Yeah, I was one of the 5,000. I was cool. You probly were too. So, they raise the distribution from 15,000 to 20,000, and limit guests to 1 each. There is still not enough to go around.

So seriously. If you really think Tiering should not be applied, then you should be able to say which guests you think should get 2 or 3 each and which guests should get none.

I don't love Tiering... In fact I'd love to get 3 or 4 FP's to Soarin and TT, myself. But by doing the math I see why it's there.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Well, when you used the phrase "on the right track" in conjunction with a discussion about FP+, it seemed as if you were drawing a connection. The corporate statements regarding the last quarterly report clearly mentions price increases and profit increases in the same sentence. And mentions DLR in the same sentence as WDW. Since DLR does not have MM+, and no mention was made of MM+ in the reference to profit, one can draw a different conclusion than "FP+ is working to increase profit". But I agree that we probably don't have the whole story.

You can attribute higher revenue, in part, to price increases but profit is a different story. You cannot throw out the associated cost when looking at profit. If costs increased, the implemented price increase partially went to cover that and did not totally reflect 1 to 1 in profit.

 

[JimmyV]

You can attribute higher revenue costs, in part, to price increases but profit is a different story. You cannot throw out the associated cost when looking at profit. If costs increased, the implemented price increase partially went to cover that and did not totally reflect 1 to 1 in profit.

Generally true. But when you wave your magic wand and raise ticket prices, you haven't incurred any corresponding overhead increases. It is pure revenue with no cost icrease.