Losing cusstomers

[Cormoran]

I don't disagree that Disney cares about repeat guests. But if one is talking about spending patterns, the issue has been studied. For hotels. For festivals. For cruise ships. And while the results might seem counterintuitive, they are fairly consistent.

I just wonder about the first time guest spending more than the repeater at WDW. Usually it's the repeaters that go on the extra tours, book dessert parties , and attend the hard ticket events' Isn't this a lot of additional revenue that first time guests don't generate?

 

[JimmyV]

Studies show that spending increases in trips 2-4 and then recedes. The things you mention are material. But compare those costs to the cost of a hotel room for a week during a 30% "room only" discount. Or a single dinner at CRT.

 

[Glenn]

I also feel that disney is forgetting repeat customers. Some here noted how much profits have gone up in the last yr or 2. Wonder how much of that is from the parks and how much was from frozen? Bet most of it was from frozen.
Right now Disney seems to think the number of first time visitors is endless so lets cut and cut to make more profits. They forget alot can deter new visitors.
Disasters, man made or natural. I was there in Dec after 9/11. Lots of people canceled and didnt come back for some time. They were even talking about closing parts of resorts so save money. Most people I spoke with were able to drive there or disney nuts like me that would show up again no matter what.
Financial distress. The world has had the benefits of alot of South American tour groups. Right now both Venezuela and Brazil are having big money problems. In Venezuela the government is having large grocery chains install finger scanners to prevent over buying of food so you cannt hoard food. If these countries have a major melt down wonder how rooms would open up?
And last, i bet repeaters have played a very big part in talking up wdw. They are more likely to say how much fun they had, planning for the next trip and all. They just might lose all that free publicity

 

[Maleficent Dragon]

For every family that says they will never go back, there are thousands more that will.

According to that, Disney would gain at least 40,000 families to replace 20 that take their vacation dollars elsewhere. Simply not true.

 

[Cormoran]

That's another big question: Are repeat visitors talking about how great WDW is now? I know I'm not talking about WDW to my friends or family. I really don't want to try explaining FP+, nor do I want my views to influence their decisions. So the free advertising from fans may have diminished since FP+.

 

[goofy4tink]

I just wonder about the first time guest spending more than the repeater at WDW. Usually it's the repeaters that go on the extra tours, book dessert parties , and attend the hard ticket events' Isn't this a lot of additional revenue that first time guests don't generate?

I don't think so. I've been to WDW about 40+ times since '99. Do I do the 'extra' stuff? Sometimes. But, it's only for something special. For instance, I'll do a dessert party if I'm going with a first timer or there's something special about my trip. Tours? Done a large number of them. But, I'm doing a KTTK tour again in May...will be my third time. Why? I have a friend who's dd is a tour guide...she's a terrific WDW CM and is just starting as a tour guide. So, dd and I want to book her particular tour. If it weren't for her, we wouldn't be doing it again.
Those hard ticketed parties? All depends. I've felt that they are selling a lot more tickets to the parties and taking away some of the perks....all while raising ticket prices. So, I think long and hard about going to them now.
I know how much I plan to spend on a particular trip. I try to fit in things I can do within that budget.

I still talk up WDW. Those going for the first time have nothing to base a comparison on. They think it's all sunshine and roses. I have absolutely no issue with FP+. Has it changed the way I do things? Sure. But it also allows me to plan my day more easily. When traveling with my dd, it's hard to get up and get moving for rope drop...darn college kids are on a whole different clock than I am!!! So, we tended to miss some of the big attractions since FPs were gone by the time we got to the park. Now, I book FP+ for later in the day, and get as much done as possible earlier in the day.
Is it better? No, no necessarily. But it works for many. You just have to change how you do things.

Disney has changed since I started going. And there were many who said that WDW was going downhill then...back in '99. I got there and thought it was wonderful. I had no bad feelings...but, again, I had nothing to compare it to. Those of us who go to WDW often tend to sound like Grandad....'Well, kids, back in my day, things weren't like this. Life was better!' It's not worse, it's different.

 

[Cormoran]

Disney has changed since I started going. And there were many who said that WDW was going downhill then...back in '99. I got there and thought it was wonderful. I had no bad feelings...but, again, I had nothing to compare it to. Those of us who go to WDW often tend to sound like Grandad....'Well, kids, back in my day, things weren't like this. Life was better!' It's not worse, it's different.

I might agree with you about my view of WDW if I didn't use DLR as a comparative. In the 80's, DLR was going downhill. To increase park attendance , they started selling inexpensive AP's to locals and it became an afternoon and weekend hang out for bored teenagers. It was comparable to a shopping mall. The park had a neglected feel to it.
Since that time, DLR has really turned itself around. The DCA facelift was just one example. Every time I'm in DLR there are suits walking around and making sure that everything is OK. A lot of the CM's are FT employees. I don't feel that I am paying more for a slowly eroding experience when I visit DLR, but I do when I visit WDW.

 

[MIGrandma]

We spent 8 nights at Disneyworld in January, with extended family. LOVED being with family but I think it may be our last trip, at least for several years anyway. DH thinks we might want to go back in 10 years or so, but the way I feel right now I couldn't care less if we ever go back. We've been there maybe a dozen times and always go in January (I went once in March and once in September and didn't like the crowds) so I was really surprised at how crowded it was this past January. Way too crowded for me. And many other things I don't like (the cost keeps going up, up, up, needing reservations 6 months out for restaurants, the rules of fastpass, things being taken away, tour groups, cost cutting measures, etc. etc.).

There are so many other places we want to see, Disney is now at the bottom of the list.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney has changed it's business plan, repeat guests are not that important anymore. Repeaters know how things used to be, how to cut costs, where to save money.

Disney wants guests who just spend money and do what they are told. As a first timer, they don't know what cuts have occurred, how the food used to be, what the crowd levels were before Disney decided to pack us in.

Bill

 

[DizDaD7]

That's another big question: Are repeat visitors talking about how great WDW is now? I know I'm not talking about WDW to my friends or family. I really don't want to try explaining FP+, nor do I want my views to influence their decisions. So the free advertising from fans may have diminished since FP+.

I don't know about you but I still do... ( Talk to everyone about how great is is.) Are there things I don't like about the changes, yes. Are there things I don't like about the constant construction, yes. But all in all, even w/ all the madness/chaos going on, It's still WDW... There's nowhere else that can come close to matching what Disney offers.... You can't honestly say that you get that---> Aghh I'm here.. kinda feeling, while walking down Main ST, at any of your local theme parks, Can You?

The part about explaining the process, to coworkers, and / or friends and family, is something that I've always done, & will continue to do. I figure If I can help someone either save a few $$, or give a tip about something, or point them in the right direction, about TS or rides, then I've done my Job..( But not gotten Paid for it..LOL )..............Yet? Maybe someday after I retire.

 

[cjparker0110]

I haven't been in a few years but that is not because of WDW changes, but because of financial reasons and starting a family. We will be going in 2017 and hopefully again a couple of years later. We don't have lots of $$ because we choose to be a single income family. However, we are both good at budgeting and saving money. I think a lot of the changes people complain about are because of the growth of the resort as a whole. I remember going as a child and we had our "golden key card" and stayed in the Contemporary (I don't even know if the mods existed yet) and had a dining plan which covered three FULL meals and we also had a deal where you could do any of the extras (speed boats, sailing, etc,) at no extra cost. My parents weren't rich but could afford all that. I know that when we last went as a "family" they didn't have all of those amenities. Looking at the dining plan now, I don't think I would do the more expensive one because I know my kids would never eat enough meals to be worth while. Park hopping is too expensive, especially when you factor in the time involved. It is better to avoid that option. Adding water parks is pricey, too! Some repeaters are unhappy because the costs keep going up!

But let's look at the costs: planning a one day ticket? $100. I know last year buying a ticket to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg, VA was $95 at the gate (it was less if bought online). BGW does not compare to WDW and yet people paid that price. WDW tickets get cheaper by the day (because you will be spending on food, hotel, etc) making them a better value. Hotels? Well, if you stay in a budget hotel it is not really anymore than a cheap hotel anywhere else. And it is less than many hotels I have encountered while traveling. Food? If you're on vacation anywhere you will pay similar costs depending on where/what you eat. You can eat on the cheap at Disney, or you can go all out. Attractions? Anywhere you vacation has costs. And you pay dearly for perks. Disney is more than an amusement park as you can sail, ride horses, golf, swim, go up in a balloon, etc. It's a full resort. Full resorts are EXPENSIVE anywhere.

Are repeaters not happy? Some aren't. Some people don't like change. Some get mad at construction. Some get mad at losing favorite rides. But I think most people enjoy the parks and want to come back.

Do you no longer talk about WDW? How many times have you been and has your circle of friends changed? My parents stopped talking about WDW trips because their same friends were sick of hearing about it. They still enjoy it and return. I still talk about WDW even though I haven't been in a while because I moved and have a new group of people to tell it to. I give tips and suggestions from what I know/remember and suggest a few tools for planning a trip.

First timers? They don't know what changes have happened. They just know there is a high cost. But that is the case on any resort vacation. And WDW is worth it to most people (not all). They don't know that there were different deals in the past. But they do know that there are different levels of hotels, dining, tickets, transportation, etc that they can budget around.

For me, getting there is the hard part. I have figured that on average it will cost between 1500-2000 to fly my family there. I have seen more expensive tickets, but nothing less than that. I can take a train for similar pricing. Or I could drive for less, but that would be a few extra days of travel, food, and hotels. And kids will likely be irritable. Anyway, I am going on for too long. Sorry.

 

[JanaDee]

I wouldn't say they don't want repeat customers. If that was the case they would not sell Vacation Club to people like me, who is going back in the fall for the Halloween party and the food wine festival. Can't wait!

Once they have your initial investment, they don't seem to care whether you come back or not. LOL

 

[JanaDee]

That's another big question: Are repeat visitors talking about how great WDW is now? I know I'm not talking about WDW to my friends or family. I really don't want to try explaining FP+, nor do I want my views to influence their decisions. So the free advertising from fans may have diminished since FP+.

I would definitely agree with this. Family/friends have noticed I'm no longer talking about WDW and we aren't vacationing there anymore. When they ask why, I try to give vague answers as to why we are no longer going there.

 

[Cormoran]

I would definitely agree with this. Family/friends have noticed I'm no longer talking about WDW and we aren't vacationing there anymore. When they ask why, I try to give vague answers as to why we are no longer going there.

Agreed, I don't want to trash the place to my friends and family. If someone asks I'll share, but no unsolicited opinions. Isn't it painful to be so disappointed in a place that you used to love so much?

 

[JanaDee]

Agreed, I don't want to trash the place to my friends and family. If someone asks I'll share, but no unsolicited opinions. Isn't it painful to be so disappointed in a place that you used to love so much?

Yes. DD is going to WDW in 2 years with her school band and I'm not sure whether I want to be a chaperone or not. We'll see how the next year shakes out with WDW.

 

[goofy4tink]

I might agree with you about my view of WDW if I didn't use DLR as a comparative. In the 80's, DLR was going downhill. To increase park attendance , they started selling inexpensive AP's to locals and it became an afternoon and weekend hang out for bored teenagers. It was comparable to a shopping mall. The park had a neglected feel to it.
Since that time, DLR has really turned itself around. The DCA facelift was just one example. Every time I'm in DLR there are suits walking around and making sure that everything is OK. A lot of the CM's are FT employees. I don't feel that I am paying more for a slowly eroding experience when I visit DLR, but I do when I visit WDW.

It's so hard to compare WDW with DLR.....they are very different. And they have very different guest bases. DLR is all about the guests that are there for a day or two. It is smaller, there are truly only the three on-site resorts. It's so much easier to manage. WDW is huge...almost too huge!!! If they paid all those CMs for full time work, they would be shelling out a ton of money in insurance and other full time costs. So, to keep costs down, they use part timers.
I was at DLR last Dec...don't remember much. It was rainy both days I was there! And let me tell you....DL is no place to be in the rain. They are not set up to handle large amounts of water. No place to eat inside, deep puddles everywhere since drainage isn't a big deal out there. I'm really looking forward to my 4 day stay this coming Nov/Dec...here's hoping the sun is out this time!!!

But, I still talk about WDW. I still love going. I do find myself a bit bored there, after about 4 or 5 days. But, that's a case of being overly familiar with it. And I truly think that with those of us that have been many times, it's a case of familiarity breeds contempt. We notice all the stuff we 'think' is wrong. We complain because things have changed. But.....things have been changing all along. Was I happy to see Off Kilter go? Nope, not hardly. So, I don't even stop when I go by that stupid lumberjack show. I hate how the Christmas decor has been diminished over the years. I hate how they have taken things away, telling us that they changed things due to 'guest feedback'..uh huh, right. Back when they did away with E-nights, they told us that guest feedback showed that the guest wanted more character interaction. So, they stopped E-nights, and started putting characters in the resorts in the morning. Can't tell you how seldom I saw anyone in a line to see those characters...guests wanted to get to the parks! They would see the characters there...no interest in hanging out at their resort waiting for a character to show up. That stopped after a short time and they put in EMHs.
I could go on and on as to what has changed in the 16 short years I've been going to WDW...but it doesn't matter. People will be saying the exact same thing in 10 years....'Oh, things just aren't the same as they were back in '15. Disney has taken the magic out since that first trip.'.

 

[ShayBells]

I would definitely agree with this. Family/friends have noticed I'm no longer talking about WDW and we aren't vacationing there anymore. When they ask why, I try to give vague answers as to why we are no longer going there.

I'd have to kinda agree with this as well. A coworker is going for the first time and I have been fighting with myself not to say anything at all. I love disney but I am holding myself back as to not overwhelm them. I answer questions and have told them to order the planning dvd and gave them easywdw but other than that I try to keep my mouth shut.

It's hard too cause I want to talk about it but for me I'm afraid of what it will do to their view if I do.

 

[disneynutz]

Once they have your initial investment, they don't seem to care whether you come back or not. LOL

Seems that way more than ever today. Long phone hold times, website issues, account issues, room refurbs that strip the unique theming.

So sad.

Bill

 

[Magpie]

Seems that way more than ever today. Long phone hold times, website issues, account issues, room refurbs that strip the unique theming.

So sad.

Bill

I'm sorry you've experienced all that! I had to call Disney the other day about an account issue (my fault, easily fixed) and I didn't wait more than 30 seconds for a castmember to pick up the phone. It was so fast, they even interrupted the "please hold" recording.

Website issues? Haven't experienced any lately, knock on wood. They really seem to have worked out the kinks since our last visit (last year).

Account issues? Well, they've stopped automatically withdrawing the remainder of your payment from your card, which was a bit of a surprise. But, probably a lot more secure. No account issues.

Room refurbs that strip the unique theming? I thought they'd been adding a bunch of themed rooms lately, such as the princess rooms and pirate rooms and that whole Art of Animation thing. Those are all new(ish), no? Most room refurb photos I've seen seem to be an improvement... but that's likely a matter of personal taste.

I do appreciate my good fortune, and am happy to bubble on about our upcoming Disney vacation to anyone who asks. I'm also well aware that sometimes the places we go become overly familiar and seem to lose their luster, and maybe someday that'll happen with Disney. Knowing that doesn't make me sad. It'll just be time to explore exciting new vacation venues!

And, when that time does come, I won't be hanging out here any more, either. I'll have found new boards, to talk about my new favourite places.

 

[Cormoran]

I'm sorry you've experienced all that! I had to call Disney the other day about an account issue (my fault, easily fixed) and I didn't wait more than 30 seconds for a castmember to pick up the phone. It was so fast, they even interrupted the "please hold" recording.

Website issues? Haven't experienced any lately, knock on wood. They really seem to have worked out the kinks since our last visit (last year).

Account issues? Well, they've stopped automatically withdrawing the remainder of your payment from your card, which was a bit of a surprise. But, probably a lot more secure. No account issues.

Room refurbs that strip the unique theming? I thought they'd been adding a bunch of themed rooms lately, such as the princess rooms and pirate rooms and that whole Art of Animation thing. Those are all new(ish), no? Most room refurb photos I've seen seem to be an improvement... but that's likely a matter of personal taste.

I do appreciate my good fortune, and am happy to bubble on about our upcoming Disney vacation to anyone who asks. I'm also well aware that sometimes the places we go become overly familiar and seem to lose their luster, and maybe someday that'll happen with Disney. Knowing that doesn't make me sad. It'll just be time to explore exciting new vacation venues!

And, when that time does come, I won't be hanging out here any more, either. I'll have found new boards, to talk about my new favourite places.

I had issues with the website 2 weeks ago. I needed to purchase additional tickets and add additional people to my account and I couldn't. As far as account issues, the MB" scontinue to have problems. Last week for example no one could charge their meals using the bands. Disney ended up comping meals.
I'm glad you haven't had any problems, but that does not necessarily mean others haven't. I'm glad you'll move on to other exciting vacation venues if the magic of Disney fades. I am the Disney nut in my family and I come on the boards to share with other people who feel as I do. Yes, I am disillusioned and disappointed in Disney's current direction, but I remain hopeful that things will improve. I think that's true for others who share my opinions on these boards.