Losing cusstomers

[connie1042]

There has been a lot of talk about how Disney is making people upset with all the changes. Long time goers are staying home more often, because of cost, people are not staying as long.But I wonder if they have thought of the people who have not booked a trip yet. My nephew was in the area last week, and decided to head to DTD for the night. Between parking nightmares and construction, he said he would never enter Disney again. Granted they were not prepared for the crowds, and waits for dinner without reservations, but he said what a mess it all was. His kids will never experience Disney. Another family just got back. Large group. They did not like it. Wont go back. I know attendance is up. But I think they are going to loose a lot of repeat business in the next five years. We are going in Oct. Only doing two days, then heading to the beach for the week. I dont see us going back in the near future after that. I am going to wait until they get done with a lot of the construction. Hopefully all the new things will be done by the time we go back. I think they are ogin gto see a lot of one time and done families.

 

[Liz Z]

It is sa

There has been a lot of talk about how Disney is making people upset with all the changes. Long time goers are staying home more often, because of cost, people are not staying as long.But I wonder if they have thought of the people who have not booked a trip yet. My nephew was in the area last week, and decided to head to DTD for the night. Between parking nightmares and construction, he said he would never enter Disney again. Granted they were not prepared for the crowds, and waits for dinner without reservations, but he said what a mess it all was. His kids will never experience Disney. Another family just got back. Large group. They did not like it. Wont go back. I know attendance is up. But I think they are going to loose a lot of repeat business in the next five years. We are going in Oct. Only doing two days, then heading to the beach for the week. I dont see us going back in the near future after that. I am going to wait until they get done with a lot of the construction. Hopefully all the new things will be done by the time we go back. I think they are ogin gto see a lot of one time and done families.

It is sad...Disney has definitely lost a lot of it's magic. Over crowded parks to stressed out CM's. A lot has been lost when Eisner left. I forgot to mention the horribly sterile look of the Polynesian lobby.

 

[ModernArtist]

For every family that says they will never go back, there are thousands more that will.

 

[angierae]

Lots and lots of people go through life never going to Disney. I was 34 before I went, none of my other five siblings or anyone in their family (children, grandchildren) have ever been to Disney. There are enough people who want to go to Disney, or will go repeatedly despite problems, that WDW is not concerned that a few people might not like it.

Attendance isn't dropping, therefore, Disney doesn't see a problem.

 

[staceyeileen]

Attendance is at an all-time high.

 

[EmilyS90]

I think they've reached a point where planning is almost required to have a super good time. And people just aren't used to that. But it's been that way for a while. Even when I was 8, my parents really didn't plan at all. And sure, we had a fun day, but I only remember doing about 5 attractions. That's why I'm going nuts with trip plans, adrs, etc to make sure we actually do things other than stand in line. It started with hotel comparisons, and suddenly I found all these blogs and guides and discussion boards and realized I REALLY needed to plan more than just our hotel.

It's not a park you can treat like six flags and I don't think Disney is stressing that enough?

 

[IrishNYC]

To them I say BYE!

More room for me.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Attendance is at a record breaking high, sorry to break it to you their not losing anything.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm not so sure that repeat business is as important as you might think it is. I live in the Northeast where driving down to WDW is not a terribly attractive option. While I know plenty of families who go to WDW fairly frequently, the vast majority or families that I know who have kids in high school or college have been to WDW (if at all), once or twice. So they raised their children from birth through college and went one or two times. I don't think this is at all unusual once you separate yourself from this fan-site. Repeat guests tend not to "splurge". They already own the ears and the sweatshirts and the coffee mugs and the t-shirts. Disney wants guests who are willing to open their wallets wider. I am not suggesting that Disney is doing anything intentionally to discourage repeat guests. Their DVC sales would suggest otherwise. But while we are mentioning DVC, it is worth pointing out that Disney does nothing to discourage "renting" DVC points. Why? One reason is because Disney knows that it will make less money from those points if one family uses them for all 20 years as compared to having those points rented out for 10 of those years to first or second time guests. (They also allow renting in order to spark interest in additional sales). The bottom line is that frequent guests fall into at least 3 categories:

• DVC owners who are in it for the long haul
• Guests who are still having fun and will continue to come back; and
• Guests who feel a loss in the magic who are ready to take a break.

There is no question that this third group exists. But I'll bet that the numbers are too small for Disney to worry about. And if that third group is replaced by first time visitors, Disney actually "wins".

 

[jprieur]

We are annual pass holders who live in Dallas, but we still go 3 times a year, rarely every plan a trip more than 5-6 weeks and sometimes plan a week in advance. We use the crowd calendars and plan around those, never going when they are above a 6/10.

Renewing our passes this year was a bit more difficult and I toyed with not doing it. Its not so much the cost, nor the construction (its a necessity to stay fresh after all), its the speed and quality. When Universal is building immersive lands in the amount of time it takes Disney to erect a multistory parking garage there is a problem. Especially considering Disney wrote their own building codes and for all intense and purposes has their own regulatory body. Its embarrassing the speed at which they are building compared to their competitive market. You are either a leader or a follower in business amongst your competitors, and right now disney is a follower at best and is simply relying upon their previous achievements (I am talking 80' and 90's achievements) to remain competitive and that will work to a point with the market capitalization and brand that Disney has. Realize that if Disney did nothing it would be YEARS until it truly chipped away at their market share to a noticeable point. They are simply that established and large. I will say that after they implemented the charge for no show on dining reservations we have not had much of a problem getting reservations at our preferred places, so that to me was a change for the better.

I really think the cost overruns of MM+ really hurt their CAPEX and we will see that ship right itself over the next quarters as things get back to normal, but when it comes to their construction speed they are clearly looking to spread out costs of fiscal years at the detriment to their customer experience. That is a conscious choice they have made that I truly believe would not have been made under previous leadership, but you have to remember we now live in a culture where businesses are run PURELY for the benefit of shareholders, with little to no thought towards quality for the sake of pride and meaning (unless that pride translates into delineated profits). This is just the world we live in now, with an overvalued stock market that demands immediate returns. We have moved from a value producing economy to one of value extracting - lets overvalue everything and extract value based on percieved value and . . . I think I am getting off topic here.

Bottom line, if things don't change at Disney my money will be going elsewhere after my passes expire. Disney has every ability to enact changes for a better long term growth structure, but they have instead chosen methods of upfront cash extraction (DVC everywhere) and IT methods to help squeeze an extra 5% of spending from customers while onsite. Don't get me wrong, MM+ has some incredible long term potential, and I do believe we will see that, but we all know what pitch was used to get board approval for this one and they start with 'increased customer spending and behavior metric recording' not 'increased customer experience due to vacation customization and more personalized visit experience.'

I love Disney, and I have nostalgic experiences every time I go. Certain smells remind me of my childhood and Space Mountain, in all its dilapidated glory and warped track, holds a special place in my heart and brings a smile to my face every time I enter the star tunnel. But like everything in this life, I have a cost/benefit threshold, and that threshold is quickly being reached.

Disney, remember where you came from and what set you apart from the beginning, remember why your founder and namesake purchased more land than Manhattan and why and how he dared to do the impossible. Things are different now, Kids can play video games on their phone that used to require a full room at Comminicore to experience, so its time to push the envelope further. Empower your imagineers to do the impossible and unbelieveable and recapture a whole new youth to perpetuate the nostalgia that calls back every adult that returns to your parks each year. We are all rooting for you on this board, and we want to continue with lifelong memories of what you offer and pass those on to the next generation of Disney Fans. Remember that all great empires are destroyed from within, dare to do better!

 

[L&Lfan]

Well, I can only speak for myself by saying we have been averaging 2 trips a year for the last 10 years. Last year we went three times. This year we are going once. We don't plan to go in 2016. We're doing Universal instead. The Disney magic for us has definitely been tarnished by the addition of MDE, MBs, FP+ and few new attractions that are mostly underwhelming. And of course the prices keep rising and rising. And food quality has taken a nose dive. But props to those who still think WDW's as great as it's always been. We're ready for a break.

 

[Cyrano]

To them I say BYE!

More room for me.

Very nice

 

[PSUGuy]

Disney has done quite a few things over the last 5 years or so to take some of the blush off the rose, starting with the closure of the Adventurer's Club and culminating with the recent blood bath that saw the end of Maelstrom, Backlot Tour, WS Players and Off Kilter. Still, we enjoy Food&Wine so much that we haven't cut the number or length of our trips, actually taking 2 last year and increasing our park days from 8 to 9. There has to be some point when it won't be worth it to us to travel 1000 miles spending thousands of dollars, I hope the Disney Suits never push their greed that far.

Bill From PA

 

[ShayBells]

I can see both sides of this. For me it'll be hard not to get me to go back. I love it there even with seeing the flaws. But I see why people want to hold back. I also see though how that isn't going to affect disney. I feel as if their problem is they care more about the money than the guest experience.

At my work my boss always says she'd rather keep the same clients and never gain a new one than lose one and gain two more. Because when we do lose a client it means we did something wrong.

But with disney it doesn't matter how many people they lose because there will always be so many more to take their places and that's all disney cares about... Filling the parks and making more money. It's almost as if they are trying to spread the magic farther and because of that its thinning out.

 

[kbelle8995]

I think you need another section. What Disney is losing is their repeat customers at least some of them. There are a lot of people out there who just want to go to WDW or Disneyland once for the kids. There are others who hate hate Disney. I think that Disney had no chance of ever impressing these people.

What will effect Disney's attendance is if the economy goes bust again or the prices go so high that Disney becomes unaffordable for them and people decide they can go elsewhere at cheaper cost.

 

[x5x5x5x5x5]

Attendance is at an all time high so apparently the amount of "long timers" that have decided to stay home is inconsequential. For now, anyway. I struggle with the loss of magic at Disney, even as I force my DD and DH to go time and time again (well, not really force . . .). The last twelve months have been pretty pivotal for me. Our final trip with our current AP's is in May and I have no intention of renewing them this year. Possibly in 2016. Not sure. It's not one particular thing that is making me take a break from Disney. I suppose it's the culmination of many things. Losing lots of smaller acts / attractions, the food all tasting the same, lackluster F&W festivals compared to years past, grumpier CMs (and grumpier guests lol), etc... We have been visiting the World multiple times a year for almost twenty years so I don't say these things lightly. Not going to Disney every few months changes my life in a kind of big way (ha I guess that sounds kind of pitiful). But I don't feel the same way I used to and have seen an increase in things that make me less inclined to visit - particularly in the last five years or so. I'm sure there are many more out there to take our place. And since they never knew the Disney that I knew, they don't know what they are missing. Sooooo . . . for them it's exciting and new and fabulous. And that will probably be enough to keep people trucking in . . . probably. Perhaps when the new big super headline attractions open in AK and HS, I will feel re-inspired. To each their own I suppose!

 

[HCinKC]

Like PPs said, they will never run out of customers. Obviously, the economy could tank, Florida could sink into the ocean, etc, but in a "normal" world, people will always go to Disney.

There is no question it is expensive, but we have spent just as much flying, renting a car, and renting a house in Cape Cod as we have on our upcoming trip. Anything can be as expensive or as budget as a person is willing to make it. We all like to say Disney is all about the bottom dollar. Sadly, it is a vicious cycle in the current marketplace. Nearly everyone has to be about the bottom dollar as they are held hostage to shareholders. Even if they could still make a handsome profit AND meet customer expectations, shareholders (generally) want maximum profit. Now, I don't know Disney's finances, but they are a vast empire encompassing parks, stores, movie studios, records labels, etc. I am sure they are separate entities, but they still feed off of one another's financial successes and failures.

Disney, remember where you came from and what set you apart from the beginning, remember why your founder and namesake purchased more land than Manhattan and why and how he dared to do the impossible. Things are different now, Kids can play video games on their phone that used to require a full room at Comminicore to experience, so its time to push the envelope further. Empower your imagineers to do the impossible and unbelieveable and recapture a whole new youth to perpetuate the nostalgia that calls back every adult that returns to your parks each year. We are all rooting for you on this board, and we want to continue with lifelong memories of what you offer and pass those on to the next generation of Disney Fans. Remember that all great empires are destroyed from within, date to do better!

This is always what gets at my heart. Walt had a clear intention. While one cannot expect it to hold true throughout time, it is disappointing how far Disney strays from his ideal. Personally, I would love to see Disney as a place that engages the entire family because no one can ignore it's awesomeness. I want kids to WANT to put their phones down, experience what is actually in front of them. While I love the classic rides, I agree that they need to do more to bring some attractions up to date. Honestly, I would be thrilled if they would open up a new World park that was all of the classic rides. Let the Magic Kingdom and Epcot evolve and open up Yesterworld for all of the charming, but (sadly) dated rides. And bring back some oldies! (I'm looking at you Toad and Nautilus!) Apparently, even if they did this, the "new" rides would be old by the time it was built.


ETA: I am not a Disney "regular". I have been many times, but our upcoming trip will be both DH & ODS's first. We will likely not return until YDS is old enough simply because traveling anywhere with kids isn't easy or cheap. We like to vary our trips and also often travel with extended family.

 

[kbelle8995]

I don't know if they will never run out of customers. Never is long time. I Think that if Disney keeps pushing the prices sky high then yes they will lose guest.

I still love Disney. But the huge urge of get to the park now Has not so strong a hold

 

[Mickey&Mouse]

To them I say BYE!

More room for me.

Seems rather cold and not in the Disney spirit

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

I think writing off all of Disney because of construction at DTD is shortsighted and foolish. I just found out there's construction at the grocery store we usually go to; does that mean I'll never go there again? No. If the construction gets too inconvenient, I'll go to another grocery store for a few months and know that when the construction is done at our regular store, it will be bigger, better, and updated. To me, in most cases construction means that they're making improvements - how would it be if they never expanded, never added anything new, never spruced things up? Granted, I'd like Disney to speed things along a bit, but if it's such a big deal that the walls will ruin someone's vacation, then I'd suggest taking a few year break, not NEVER going again.

Within the past year or two, I've helped several families plan WDW vacations, and been in charge of all the planning for our own upcoming trip. Most people have no idea how big WDW is (TWICE the size of Manhattan - that's crazy!), or the kind of planning it takes. I think the people who don't enjoy their vacations are the ones who either don't plan because they're simply ignorant of any need to, or because they simply opt not to plan for whatever reason.

A WDW vacation takes more planning than going to a beach somewhere, but anywhere I go, I'm going to do my research. When you really compare WDW to planning a vacation to a non-resort, it's not that relatively difficult. There are 20-something on site WDW resorts, but how many hotels to choose from in any given city? Similarly, there are something like 240-odd places to eat at WDW (ranging from simple snack stands to V&A), but how many in a large city? Yes, you can go to most cities without planning, but I'm not going to go on ANY vacation without any idea of where I want to stay or dine, or the attractions I want to see. I've known people who go on non-WDW vacations and don't plan those either, and guess what? They don't have a great time, and don't see or do a fraction of what my family sees and does in the same city.

With more people traveling, the parks are obviously fuller, and Disney has to do something to help control crowds. If there were no ADRs, how long would waits be at restaurants? At least by making ADRs, I know I'm getting into the restaurants I want - if someone chooses not to make ADRs, that's their prerogative, and they know the possible consequences. WDW isn't like DLR which has many more local guests, which translates to more people staying in the parks to eat.

I also haven't fully experienced FP+ yet. I did make our FP+ reservations the other day though, and it was easy (8 park days for 7 people done in 9 minutes total, including A+E, 7DMT, ETWB, MSEP, etc) - easier than fighting crowds and waiting 90 mins+ to get on 7DMT or see A+E, making my kids get up for rope drop, or sprinting to a FP- machine. I've heard about MDE being glitchy, but knock-on-wood, it hasn't been for us. We'll print our reservations just in case, but so far we haven't had the problems others seem to report.

Overall, I wish WDW would hurry up with construction timelines, and finally make announcements for concrete plans regarding DHS. I sincerely hope that big things are coming for DHS (Star Wars, more Pixar) AND Epcot (there are too many un- or under-used buildings), and that the additions to AK are worth the wait. I personally haven't encountered problems with MDE, but since so many people do report issues, they need to invest in more and better programmers. We also haven't ever encountered any rude CMs, but if we did, we'd report it to guest services ASAP because that's the only way things get fixed.

It's sad that long-time guests are becoming disillusioned. I've been going to DLR since I was a child, and WDW almost yearly for the past 11 or so years, and have many wonderful memories because of it. Maybe if I went multiple times a year, it wouldn't be so magical to me. I think going almost-yearly is maybe optimal, because I'm familiar with WDW, I know how to plan, but there are still new things to see and do (and I can also enjoy vacations to other locations, which I think is important).

Also, while I appreciate the ability to make dining/FP+ reservations, 180/60 days in advance is a little excessive. 60 days for dining, 45 for FP+ (for on site guests) would be plenty.