Looting or Salvaging?

[va32h]

I was watching some footage of people looting in New Orleans, and I started thinking...

Now of course stealing is wrong - taking advantage of other people's misfortune is wrong. But I kind of struggle with the idea that it is criminally wrong. I mean - yes, if you break the window of an electronics store and take everything inside to sell on ebay, that's terrible.

But on the other hand...if I owned say, a grocery store in New Orleans, and I had evacuated and couldn't come back for weeks, and some of the unfortunate people stuck there were able to get into my store and get bottled water or diapers...I wouldn't mind. It's not as if I would be able to re-sell those things in a month or six months when my store re-opens.

Or if I'm a refugee in one of those towns that is not flooded , and debris is blown into the street, and it's something I could use -- plywood to cover holes in my roof or a tarp or someting I could use for shelter - would it be excusable for me to take it?

I just don't know...and on a practical note, where are they going to take the people they arrest?

 

[Maleficent13]

I see your point, and I think I may agree with you, if what is taken is truly needed by the person taking it (ie, food, water, shelter material).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It is still looting.

When they get rescued by boat--they won't get to take it with them anyway.

Picking up debris--is one thing.

Walking into a facility to take anything. that is another.

We're talking pharmaceuticals and beer in addition to the other stuff.

 

[MosMom]

I see your point, and I think I may agree with you, if what is taken is truly needed by the person taking it (ie, food, water, shelter material).

I agree with this.

 

[MosMom]

Main Entry: 2loot
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 a : to plunder or sack in war b : to rob especially on a large scale and usually by violence or corruption
2 : to seize and carry away by force especially in war
intransitive senses : to engage in robbing or plundering especially in war
- loot·er noun

Main Entry: 2salvage
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): sal·vaged; sal·vag·ing
: to rescue or save especially from wreckage or ruin
- sal·vage·abil·i·ty /"sal-vi-j&-'bi-l&-tE/ noun
- sal·vage·able /'sal-vi-j&-b&l/ adjective
- sal·vag·er noun

I'd almost be willing to say that salvage fits more here. I'm not talking those who break into people's homes or stores just to steal valuables. I'm talking about the people taking things that would help them survive for a few days or longer. I can't even imagine the despair I might feel right now if I were down there. I go into survival mode when the electricity goes out!

 

[Alicnwondrln]

good topic
i was just watching cnn to and my DS6 was like why are those people just taking all that stuff dont they have to pay?
isnt that wrong
and i didnt know what to say
its wrong to steal but people are also homeless with no food adn shelter

kinda a slippery slope

 

[ASFCurly]

but I think that people are taking much more than the necessities, and not just from stores, but from peoples homes also.

 

[julia & nicks mom]

taking necessities seems okay to me - if you need something and there is no one to pay and no other way to get it -

now - taking luxuries or things from someone's home is a whole different story

 

[jrydberg]

If it does not belong to you and you take it for your use, it's looting -- it's irrelevant whether you "need" it or not. It belongs to the hypothetical store. Unless the store owner specifically allows it, taking items from the store is criminal behavior.

 

[wdw4us2]

It may start out as just taking essential food & supplies, but it will escalate as time goes on and people are still homeless.

I just heard a report that a sporting goods store was broken into and guns and ammo were taken. This is just the beginning.

After Frances & Jeanne, the people of our neighborhood took shifts sitting out front with a shotgun. It was necessary because there were so many strangers riding through the neighborhoods for no good reason. We later learned that people who fled the storms returned home to find their homes cleaned out.

It's disgusting how some people function during a tragedy. They become animals.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If it does not belong to you and you take it for your use, it's looting -- it's irrelevant whether you "need" it or not. It belongs to the hypothetical store. Unless the store owner specifically allows it, taking items from the store is criminal behavior.

exactly.

given that these storms can be prepared for--they were told to prepare, they were told to get out. Those who couldn't get out were given refuge of last resort. EVERYONE for the most part who is in their home is there by choice.

They didn't crash a plane and find a place to salvage supplies--they allowed themselves to be open to a very dangerous situation.

In most cases---it isn't "Oh crap, what are we going to do now". It is "boo-ya---let's go get us some stuff".

yes these are poor people.....but if they did this same action the day before--it would have been stealing. It is ONE day later....it is taking advantage of the situation.

We are feeling sorry due to their poverty--but if you saw someone carrying groceries back to their mansion on St. Charles right now---it wouldn't be seen the same way.

If their was truly a need at this point---officials would be commandeering the stores and taking needed supplies.

The need we are speaking of--if there is one, is of their own making.

 

[Rhonda922]

I saw the people on the news last nite looting and at first it made me mad. But then when I really thought about it, I said well, if their children are hungry or in need of diapers and they break into a store for food or formula then I don't see a problem. If they're really going overboard, then that's just not right. But where are they keeping these things anyway? Aren't their homes flooded?

 

[minkydog]

It's one thing to take necessities like water, diapers, food and bleach(to kill germs.) Totally another when they're lifting beer & TVs(there's no electricity for God's sake!) I just watch the news and grieve. i can't imagine being in these people's shoes. I have a strong sense of right & wrong, but in the same circumstances would I keep my integrity? Or would it be every man for himself? It's hard for me to stand in judgement of these people. I can hardly bear to look at the devastation.

My sister evacuated from her home in Meridian, Ms, to a Red Cross shelter. She has been caring for 200 people from NO for the last 2 days and she says their stories are heart-breaking. Even that far inland they have no power, no water, food is running short, & one person had to be taken away in an ambulance due to illness. There are 400 trees down, but at least the sun is out. The men at the shelter are working right now to clear a big tree off the playground so the little kids will have a safe place to run around for awhile.

Life somehow finds away.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Even on the news they are saying it is probably survival BUT it is not the way to do it--there is help available.

The looting is appearing to be a concerted effort with "lookouts".

 

[barbeml]

I'm having a hard time condemning the guy I saw on TV running away with a package of toilet paper.

Electronics and jewelry is one thing, but until I've slogged through flood waters in their shoes, I will reserve judgment.

 

[julia & nicks mom]

exactly.

given that these storms can be prepared for--they were told to prepare, they were told to get out. Those who couldn't get out were given refuge of last resort. EVERYONE for the most part who is in their home is there by choice.

The need we are speaking of--if there is one, is of their own making.

while I agree that they put themselves into the situation it does not change that fact that they are in the situation

my DH's 18 year old cousin is pregnant unsure of who the father is - she put herself into this stupid situation - but should I turn my back on her?

 

[Cameo]

I saw the guy with toilet paper too! Then I decided that if you need those items to survive, it becomes a survival of the fittest situation and who knows what I would do to take care of my family in that situation. If you don't have food and shelter, you will resort to survival at all costs. Didn't we study that in school?

Did you wonder what he was going to do with the toilet paper, though, since he was floating it in the water?

It's just horrible and I pray for all those people.

 

[bcvillastwo]

Unless and until you know these people's motives there is no way any of us can explain the reason why any individual is involved in looting. But, what we do know is that it's considered a crime almost everywhere. Therefore, in the eyes of the law it is irrelevant why they are looting. The looters are still stealing the results of another persons labor and taking advantage of their misfortune.

I am sympathetic to someone trying to keep the wolf away from the door and I would probably just slap them on the wrist if it could be determined that they were trying to provide food for themselves or their family. However, to those who are stealing anything else..............I would not be so charitable.

Looting is a criminal act, regardless of the reason.

 

[jrydberg]

my DH's 18 year old cousin is pregnant unsure of who the father is - she put herself into this stupid situation - but should I turn my back on her?

No, but IMO you shouldn't condone her stealing to support herself either. All these items belong to someone else.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

while I agree that they put themselves into the situation it does not change that fact that they are in the situation

my DH's 18 year old cousin is pregnant unsure of who the father is - she put herself into this stupid situation - but should I turn my back on her?

No--you should help her. I would hope that you don't think it right for her to break into a facility and get herself food and maternity clothes since she's in such a state.

I didn't say these people didn't deserve help. They are being helped. They do not deserve to break the law. Search and rescue is taking place.

These people have help coming--they have help at the Superdome. They are taking advantage of a situation--which is what looting is. It isn't judging--it is what it is.

I've been through 3 hurricanes--none that devastating..but certainly the no power--ill prepared supplies (my parents fault!). We didn't go break into the Piggly Wiggly. We made do--and if we didn't......there was help. ETA: No running water either.

Instead of running from the cops--these people could flag down the cops.