Long wait lines.

[GeorgiaHoo]

We went to MK late afternoon this past Saturday and rode Space Mtn, Buzz and Jungle Cruise using FP then after Wishes rode Mermaid, Pirates and Astro Orbiter with no wait. Were there for maybe 3 hours total (went to Wave for dinner after we arrived at the park and used FP) and rode 6 rides plus had a great spot for Wishes (though we got rained on).

 

[wisblue]

Here is a post from Josh at EasyWDW that discusses the effect that the priority boarding FP+ riders receive was observed to be having on rides that did not previously have FP.

Link

Josh's ending summary quote:


(And I'm aware that Josh points out that waits for headliners have either remained constant or gone down..especially at MK. This discussion was about rides that did not previously have FP, not headliners).

Josh's analysis also includes this point:

"Magic Kingdom is perhaps the most interesting, where median and peak waits have actually gone down significantly at the headliners and up considerably at several of the secondary attractions, most notably it’s a small world, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, and Pirates of the Caribbean. It’s hard to say how much of an effect FP+ has had at Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise in particular. It might seem obvious that FP+ is directly responsible for the uptick, but those two attractions had oddly increasing wait times over the months leading up to the initial implementation of FP+. Nonetheless, expect to wait a lot longer at both in the afternoon."

Josh has a lot of data to analyze and present, but he stops far short of absolute statements like "Longer wait times are because of FP+".

It's also worth noting his data about median and peak wait times. For most of the attractions with increases, those median increases are in the range of 10-15 minutes. So, it isn't like wait times that used to be 5 minutes are now routinely at 45 minutes. For someone who wants to do a ride, an extra 10 minutes of wait time shouldn't be that big a deal. And, if the standby wait times are more inflated than they used to be, that difference in actual wait may be even less than 10-15 minutes.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Josh has a lot of data to analyze and present, but he stops far short of absolute statements like "Longer wait times are because of FP+".

How can you say that when his ending statement in that post was this:

Overall, FP+ is causing wait times to increase at most secondary attractions, while having a less substantial impact at the most popular attractions with the longest wait times.

That is a direct quote from Josh. I'm not making that up. The bolded is all I was providing "proof" of by linking his post. I read the point about Jungle Cruise and Haunted Mansion, but 2 rides does not constitute "most secondary attractions," which is what the conversation was about.

It's also worth noting his data about median and peak wait times. For most of the attractions with increases, those median increases are in the range of 10-15 minutes. So, it isn't like wait times that used to be 5 minutes are now routinely at 45 minutes. For someone who wants to do a ride, an extra 10 minutes of wait time shouldn't be that big a deal. And, if the standby wait times are more inflated than they used to be, that difference in actual wait may be even less than 10-15 minutes.

I wasn't commenting about how long the SB waits have increased. The person I was speaking with was wondering *how* FP+ could have increased SB waits. Not how could they have increased them by a certain amount, but how FP+ could be *at all* responsible for increasing wait times at secondary attractions.

I provided a link that provided an explanation to that question. I'm not giving commentary on whether or not it's a "big deal".

 

[mesaboy2]

Josh's analysis also includes this point:

"Magic Kingdom is perhaps the most interesting, where median and peak waits have actually gone down significantly at the headliners and up considerably at several of the secondary attractions, most notably it’s a small world, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, and Pirates of the Caribbean. It’s hard to say how much of an effect FP+ has had at Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise in particular. It might seem obvious that FP+ is directly responsible for the uptick, but those two attractions had oddly increasing wait times over the months leading up to the initial implementation of FP+. Nonetheless, expect to wait a lot longer at both in the afternoon."

Josh has a lot of data to analyze and present, but he stops far short of absolute statements like "Longer wait times are because of FP+".

It's also worth noting his data about median and peak wait times. For most of the attractions with increases, those median increases are in the range of 10-15 minutes. So, it isn't like wait times that used to be 5 minutes are now routinely at 45 minutes. For someone who wants to do a ride, an extra 10 minutes of wait time shouldn't be that big a deal. And, if the standby wait times are more inflated than they used to be, that difference in actual wait may be even less than 10-15 minutes.

No matter Josh's conclusions, I think it is obvious to most that "longer wait times are at least in part because of FP+".

"Oddly increasing wait times" by itself does not explain 55 minutes all stinking afternoon yesterday at HM. Yeah, I'm bitter.

 

[PEC]

No matter Josh's conclusions, I think it is obvious to most that "longer wait times are at least in part because of FP+".

"Oddly increasing wait times" by itself does not explain 55 minutes all stinking afternoon yesterday at HM. Yeah, I'm bitter.

I think for HM, POTC and Jungle Cruise (those 2nd tier major attractions at MK) FP+ is causing an increase in individuals doing the attractions. I believe even with the extra FPs available individuals are not constantly doing the MTNs and spreading out some to these rides. Will see what impact 7 Dwarfs has (short and long term). It could take a share of crowd away from these attactions. Then at the same time it could cause even more people to go to MK instead of other parks.

 

[lugnut33]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people don't even try to ride the major headliners without a FP now. I think a lot of people lowered their expectations to riding an attraction only once per day and you must have a FP.

 

[ShayBells]

I have always noticed posted wait times were over from what I waited. HM is a big one that seems to always say 20-40 minutes that I see and I get on in 10. So whenever I see a higher wait time I usually go for it as the line is moving and time goes by fast to me. It's when lines stop that the time goes slow.

SM was 40 minutes the one time I went on it. I clocked it we were on the ride in 45 minutes. That's never happened to me and we were in the tunnel close to the bend where the ride is and we were at a complete stand still for what seemed like forever because people never stopped coming down the FP lane. We rode this ride four times two on Wednesday and two on Friday. Once with a FP. Maybe we just got unlucky but it seemed during SB the FP lane was always packed and people never stopped coming down it significantly slowing down our SB line.

Overall it wasn't horrible. I never meant to sound like it was. It would just seem to me the lines would move faster if there was less in the FP lane like before I guess.

I do believe it's all about perception and no two people will have the same experience.

I will say we rode CoP twice and People Mover four times and never once waited

Usually we get on a lot of rides. Of the two days I was in MK we barely got on any. I do hold myself accountable on this. Usually I have a plan and follow it. This time I let me 5 year old guide me and we were crisscrossing the park losing time.

I just have come to the conclusion that I will go in Sept from now on except at one time I want to go on my bday which is December 23rd and will go in it that time knowing there will be long lines and I won't get on much lol

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[PEC]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people don't even try to ride the major headliners without a FP now. I think a lot of people lowered their expectations to riding an attraction only once per day and you must have a FP.

IF I had to make a guess that is what I would say. Also explains shorter wait times for MTNs. Now in a few months we can see if extra FPs changes the scenario any. Plus the addition of 7 Dwarfs.

 

[wisblue]

How can you say that when his ending statement in that post was this:



That is a direct quote from Josh. I'm not making that up. The bolded is all I was providing "proof" of by linking his post. I read the point about Jungle Cruise and Haunted Mansion, but 2 rides does not constitute "most secondary attractions," which is what the conversation was about.



I wasn't commenting about how long the SB waits have increased. The person I was speaking with was wondering *how* FP+ could have increased SB waits. Not how could they have increased them by a certain amount, but how FP+ could be *at all* responsible for increasing wait times at secondary attractions.

I provided a link that provided an explanation to that question. I'm not giving commentary on whether or not it's a "big deal".

I am saying what I am saying because I am reading Josh's analysis as a whole and not just picking out a summary statement.

And when people say "longer lines are because of FP+" that comes across as if that is the one and only reason in all cases.

I choose to look at something as a whole instead of just looking at one sentence in a conclusion.

 

[wisblue]

No matter Josh's conclusions, I think it is obvious to most that "longer wait times are at least in part because of FP+".

"Oddly increasing wait times" by itself does not explain 55 minutes all stinking afternoon yesterday at HM. Yeah, I'm bitter.

I wouldn't disagree with that, assuming, of course, that the ACTUAL wait times are as long as the posted wait times.

We are all bitter that you weren't willing to get into that line to give us some real data about how accurate that posted 55 minute wait time was.

 

[mesaboy2]

I have always noticed posted wait times were over from what I waited. HM is a big one that seems to always say 20-40 minutes that I see and I get on in 10. So whenever I see a higher wait time I usually go for it as the line is moving and time goes by fast to me. It's when lines stop that the time goes slow.

SM was 40 minutes the one time I went on it. I clocked it we were on the ride in 45 minutes. That's never happened to me and we were in the tunnel close to the bend where the ride is and we were at a complete stand still for what seemed like forever because people never stopped coming down the FP lane. We rode this ride four times two on Wednesday and two on Friday. Once with a FP. Maybe we just got unlucky but it seemed during SB the FP lane was always packed and people never stopped coming down it significantly slowing down our SB line.

Overall it wasn't horrible. I never meant to sound like it was. It would just seem to me the lines would move faster if there was less in the FP lane like before I guess.

I do believe it's all about perception and no two people will have the same experience.

I will say we rode CoP twice and People Mover four times and never once waited

Usually we get on a lot of rides. Of the two days I was in MK we barely got on any. I do hold myself accountable on this. Usually I have a plan and follow it. This time I let me 5 year old guide me and we were crisscrossing the park losing time.

I just have come to the conclusion that I will go in Sept from now on except at one time I want to go on my bday which is December 23rd and will go in it that time knowing there will be long lines and I won't get on much lol

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I don't disagree. But when normal 20-40 minute posted wait times become 55-minute posted wait times, I'm guessing the actual wait time goes up too.

On the positive side, BTMRR was posting 55 most of the afternoon also, then dropped to 40 about 6:00p inspiring a run at it. It popped back up to 50 as we got there, but in actuality was closer to 25. So I can't say it was all bad.

 

[ShayBells]

I don't disagree. But when normal 20-40 minute posted wait times become 55-minute posted wait times, I'm guessing the actual wait time goes up too. On the positive side, BTMRR was posting 55 most of the afternoon also, then dropped to 40 about 6:00p inspiring a run at it. It popped back up to 50 as we got there, but in actuality was closer to 25. So I can't say it was all bad.

Yeah those times get you. We were just getting off HM and my DS said he wanted splash again. Checked my phone it said 20 so I said yes. Walked over it was up to 45 lol. And I wasn't going to walk all that way for nothing.

We did BTMRR in the morning. This lady shoved past us on the way over and it was walk on. We did that first both mornings and once with FP in the afternoon last Wednesday. So I did pay attention to that one during the day Splash though is my DSs favorite. That and HM. We ride those way to many times when we go haha. Just once I'd like time for other rides but I'm a pushover haha

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[mesaboy2]

I wouldn't disagree with that, assuming, of course, that the ACTUAL wait times are as long as the posted wait times.

We are all bitter that you weren't willing to get into that line to give us some real data about how accurate that posted 55 minute wait time was.

See above. I concede it probably wasn't 55, but I would bet good money it was longer than in the past.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I am saying what I am saying because I am reading Josh's analysis as a whole and not just picking out a summary statement.

And when people say "longer lines are because of FP+" that comes across as if that is the one and only reason in all cases.

I choose to look at something as a whole instead of just looking at one sentence in a conclusion.

There was a discussion between myself and another poster happening. He was asking a specific question - *how* could FP+ make longer SB lines happen. I was *answering* that question, and using Josh's post to further illustrate what I was trying to say. That's all.

For someone who says you look at something as a whole, you seem to have ignored the fact that I was answering someone's specific question and instead have taken my post to be just another "FP+ is making lines longer" post, which wasn't the case.

As for the analysis of Josh's post - my reading comprehension skills are just fine. I read his entire post. The 2 rides you used as a counterpoint to my post are not "most secondary rides". I acknowledge that FP+ may not have a part in those lines, just as Josh did. That being true for those 2 rides, doesn't make it any *less* true that FP+ is causing lines to be longer at most other secondary attractions. Again, for someone who is claiming to look at the post as a whole, you don't mention the paragraphs about other secondary rides where Josh does specifically say (aside from his conclusion statement), that FP+ is the cause for the increase in wait time - just the one paragraph about 2 rides. But somehow I'm cherry picking what I'm referring to, and you're referencing the whole...ok.

I've also read many of Josh's posts here. I appreciate his neutrality in pointing out both the good and bad aspects of FP+. I'm certainly not claiming he is anti-FP+ by any stretch. But it really is quite ridiculous to say that he "stops far short of absolute statements like "Longer wait times are because of FP+," when he does in fact actually say "FP+ is causing wait times to increase at most secondary attractions."

 

[BuckeyeBama]

There was a discussion between myself and another poster happening. He was asking a specific question - *how* could FP+ make longer SB lines happen. I was *answering* that question, and using Josh's post to further illustrate what I was trying to say. That's all.

For someone who says you look at something as a whole, you seem to have ignored the fact that I was answering someone's specific question and instead have taken my post to be just another "FP+ is making lines longer" post, which wasn't the case.

That sort of thing happens a lot - folks seem to get their feelings hurt by a post and respond without considering the context.

 

[mickeysgirl17]

Just got back. There was some pretty long lines. Never been at this time before so I don't know if it was the time of year or FP+ but I waited 20 minutes for IASW ... Are you kidding me? I've never had more than a minute wait for this ride. I was shocked. And HM was long. And splash mountain was the worst. An hour. I usually go in september and never wait longer than 30. And the worst part was the FP+ line was ridiculously long and the people never stopped coming down it. And by the end I saw why it was an hour wait. For every 10 ppl in FP+ that went through one for stand by went through and I'm telling you the FP+ line was long and never ending. I thought there was a limit to how many are given out in a day?

Other than MK I enjoyed FP+ for the other parks. It worked out great and each FP was easily changed on MDE on my phone but the whole day in MK it wouldn't work and I wasn't able to use any of my FPs I had booked just because it didn't work out with what my son wanted to do at the time and like I said I couldn't change them. I didn't try a kiosk. Didn't want to take the time We still had a good time. We missed out on A lot of rides since we were only there four days but dang if the lines were long because of the time of year I'm going to go back to only going in September I can get a lot more done than. If it's cause of FP+ well that's just sad.

Oh and another thing. People seem more rude than I remember. CMs seemed rude as well which is weird. This one was the worst. It was raining and we did have a FP for the parade and we were in the spot and it was 3:05. I asked if it was still gonna go on or not and the CM rolled his eyes looked at his other CM chuckled than looked at me put his hand to his ear and said yeah I hear the music don't you. Like mocking me and rude. The parade didn't go on the rainy day parade thing did. But I was shocked. People around the park and on buses seemed rude too. I usually think people around are so nice and CMs are usually amazing. Anyone else see a change in people's behavior or just me? Is it all about the money and less about the magic these days?

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I have been to WDW in May before and I did notice it is quite busier than the crowds i'm used to in early December. That being said, I know for a fact that my family did ride IASW because we ride it every single trip and I have never ever waited more than 5 min to ride. That does seem ridiculous.

Regarding the rude CM's. You should make a complaint to Disney. It won't stop if they aren't aware of how rude their CM's are being to their guests. If you do make a complaint, be specific of the date and where you were so they can take appropriate action with the CM.

I'm sorry you had these problems, but I do feel as if Disney has lost a lot of magic since my first trip in 2006. My family is likely going to take a break from Disney for a while until the fp+ mess gets straightened out.

 

[ilovemk76]

See above. I concede it probably wasn't 55, but I would bet good money it was longer than in the past.

In the past they were only padded 5-10 minutes. Now it seems to be more like 20-30.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

In the past they were only padded 5-10 minutes. Now it seems to be more like 20-30.

We didn't get in any lines over 35 min, so our experience is limited, but we found that posted times were padded by about five minutes. Except Under the Sea, which always says 20 min when it's a walk-on. I was keeping close track of the time at Pooh because we needed to get a spot for the 9 p.m. electric parade. The posted time was 25 min, and we waited exactly 20 min. When Pirates said 35, I'm pretty sure we waited 30 but it was at least 25 min.

You can't assume that the 55 min HM line was, in reality, a lot shorter. Regardless, that's a huge wait time for HM. We were so afraid that would happen to us that we contributed to the problem and booked a FP+. The posted time was 35-50 all day. But then, we randomly saw the wait drop to 15 min and jumped in line. We were in the building in 10 min. Of course, lots of people got in line behind us and the wait was back up.

It's the unpredictability that drives planners crazy. It was easier when there were a few family favorites I could always count on during the busy hours. Now, we're down to the TTA.

 

[mom2rtk]

I get why they are doing it, but just find it annoying that the wait times are not reliable. On our one evening trip to the MK last summer, we tried all night to get on Space Mountain, but the wait was posted at over 2 hours the entire night right up to the end of EMH). Since that was our only park time that trip, we hated to think of getting stuck in a 2 hour line. I needed my crystal ball to know whether it was really 2 hours, or just the pseudo 2 hours used to discourage us from getting in line. We went by one last time at 12:45 AM and it still said 2 hours. Since we couldn't see the line, we couldn't make a good choice on whether to jump in line or not. In the end, it worked and we passed on it. I have a hunch it was MUCH shorter though.

 

[wisblue]

I get why they are doing it, but just find it annoying that the wait times are not reliable. On our one evening trip to the MK last summer, we tried all night to get on Space Mountain, but the wait was posted at over 2 hours the entire night right up to the end of EMH). Since that was our only park time that trip, we hated to think of getting stuck in a 2 hour line. I needed my crystal ball to know whether it was really 2 hours, or just the pseudo 2 hours used to discourage us from getting in line. We went by one last time at 12:45 AM and it still said 2 hours. Since we couldn't see the line, we couldn't make a good choice on whether to jump in line or not. In the end, it worked and we passed on it. I have a hunch it was MUCH shorter though.

When we've been in that situation, and we can't see the line, my approach is to walk in to see how long the line is and maybe give it 5 or 10 minutes to see how it's moving.

One night a few years ago I walked into Soarin at about 8 PM on a night in January when the posted wait time was 30 minutes. I walked all the way to the FP merge point and there were literally fewer than 10 people there. In other words, the wait time was as short as that ride can possibly be. If the line had looked longer than I had been willing to wait, I would have just walked out.