long term maternity leave (debate)

[DIZNYFAN]

Very well said septbride.

 

[jmmom80]

I don't think that MILLIONS of Canadian, French, and Spanish (I think those were the examples given) EXPECT to be paid.

they obviously do when they have children - that's the whole point of this thread. they expect the government, through taxes (conveniently called 'premiums') to pay for them to stay home after they have children.

Instead the systems are in place so that if your world comes crumbling down around you that you don't fall through the cracks.

having a baby equates to the world crumbling down around you? this is, after all, a thread about long term paid maternity leave. the thread was begun because you didn't want the subject discussed in your health care thread. being as that is the case, why are you now bringing other issues (crumbling worlds and people falling through cracks) into the thread? isn't that what you didn't want done on your thread?

I'm not saying I EXPECT you to understand this because you have made it perfectly clear that for you it is all about "ME."

as i've said, it's about personal responsibility. let me keep more of my money so that i can meet mine, and you do the same when it comes to yours. but don't EXPECT me to pay for the choices that you make. you want to stay home after you have a child? be my guest, have at it. but don't be under the impression that it is anyone's responsibility other than yours to make that happen.

 

[hpsauce]

Originally posted by jmmom80
they obviously do when they have children - that's the whole point of this thread. they expect the government, through taxes (conveniently called 'premiums') to pay for them to stay home after they have children.

Not taxes. EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. Who pays for your car to be fixed when you wreck it? Who pays for your brain surgery when you have a tumor? Who pays for your house when it falls down? Is it me? Is it your friend down the street? Surely you understand the concept of insurance.



In fact -- let me put it this way -- you choose to have a child. You CHOOSE to do so. I guess you shouldn't expect your health insurance to pay for your labour and delivery and your baby's health care. Because then I'M paying for it! Right?

 

[jmmom80]

Originally posted by hpsauce
Not taxes. EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. Who pays for your car to be fixed when you wreck it? Who pays for your brain surgery when you have a tumor? Who pays for your house when it falls down? Is it me? Is it your friend down the street? Surely you understand the concept of insurance.



In fact -- let me put it this way -- you choose to have a child. You CHOOSE to do so. I guess you shouldn't expect your health insurance to pay for your labour and delivery and your baby's health care. Because then I'M paying for it! Right?

yes, i understand the concept of insurance, and i also understand the concept of taxes. when the government sets the rate and collects the money, and you have no choice but pay the money, it isn't a premium, it is a tax.

and if my insurance didn't cover maternity, then i certainly wouldn't expect it to pay my expenses. that's a choice that people make when they decide which insurance policy to buy. note the difference...people choose an insurance policy and decide whether they want to pay it or not (premium). when government tells people what they will pay, with the people have no choice whatsoever to pay or not, that is a tax.

 

[DIZNYFAN]

Look at it this way it is kinda like paying for your car insurance. You may never crash it or have it stolen unmlike some people but yet you keep paying for it and your paying for it covers the cost of other people smashing up their cars and your premiums do continue to rise unlike Employment insurace whish has actually gone down. So if somone steals your car then maybe you should tell your insurance company not to bother compensating you for it you will just take all your extra money and go buy a new one. Employment insurance in Canada is there for all these situations pregnancy included.

 

[hpsauce]

Well, all I can say is that Canadians seem to be pretty happy about it. I guess you shouldn't move to Canada, jmmom! All the better for me -- I won't have to "pay" for your next maternity leave!

 

[Beth76]

Originally posted by DIZNYFAN
Look at it this way it is kinda like paying for your car insurance. You may never crash it or have it stolen unmlike some people but yet you keep paying for it and your paying for it covers the cost of other people smashing up their cars and your premiums do continue to rise unlike Employment insurace whish has actually gone down. So if somone steals your car then maybe you should tell your insurance company not to bother compensating you for it you will just take all your extra money and go buy a new one. Employment insurance in Canada is there for all these situations pregnancy included.

No because insurance protects you from things that are generally out of your control. Having a baby is a choice and leaving work to stay at home with the child is a CHOICE. Others shouldn't have to pay for that choice. That's why insurance premiums rise when one person has many claims.

 

[jmmom80]

Originally posted by DIZNYFAN
Look at it this way it is kinda like paying for your car insurance. You may never crash it or have it stolen unmlike some people but yet you keep paying for it and your paying for it covers the cost of other people smashing up their cars and your premiums do continue to rise unlike Employment insurace whish has actually gone down. So if somone steals your car then maybe you should tell your insurance company not to bother compensating you for it you will just take all your extra money and go buy a new one. Employment insurance in Canada is there for all these situations pregnancy included.

nope, if i'm paying the premiums, then i want the benefits. but my whole point is that i don't want the u.s. to go down the road of making me pay these taxes in the first place. if i'm forced to pay them, then of course i'll expect to get the benefit. but i would rather forego the benefit, take the responsibility myself for maternity leave or not, and not be forced into paying the tax.

i'm of the opinion that social security is a huge scam and that it should be reformed as soon as possible. but if it isn't reformed, and i'm forced to continue paying social security taxes to fund everyone else's retirement, then you bet i expect to get some of that money back when i'm 62. but given the choice, i would much rather save for my own retirement and not expect anything from the government when i retire.

same with the long term maternity leave. if countries want it, great, but i sure don't want to see it implemented here. i don't have any desire to pay for someone else's year off of work.

 

[hpsauce]

Originally posted by Beth76
No because insurance protects you from things that are generally out of your control. Having a baby is a choice and leaving work to stay at home with the child is a CHOICE. Others shouldn't have to pay for that choice. That's why insurance premiums rise when one person has many claims.

See my post on health insurance. Surely it pays for health care when you CHOOSE to have a baby!

 

[jmmom80]

Originally posted by hpsauce
Well, all I can say is that Canadians seem to be pretty happy about it. I guess you shouldn't move to Canada, jmmom! All the better for me -- I won't have to "pay" for your next maternity leave!

don't worry - canada is a beautiful country, but i wouldn't want to live there for any amount of money, and my baby days are long over.

 

[DIZNYFAN]

Oh come on jmmom we don't have snow all the time like some poeple believe LOL we do get summer up here to and actually do have real cars not dog sleds and igloos LOL sorry couldn't help myself. Mind you income tax was implemented during one of the wars can't remember which one think first and it was to be temporary hmm still here.

 

[septbride2002]

having a baby equates to the world crumbling down around you? this is, after all, a thread about long term paid maternity leave. the thread was begun because you didn't want the subject discussed in your health care thread. being as that is the case, why are you now bringing other issues (crumbling worlds and people falling through cracks) into the thread? isn't that what you didn't want done on your thread?

It is simply that black and white to you isn't it? The reason I didn't want to get into this on the National Healthcare threat for this reason exactly. Things are not black and white. People can get pregnant by accident - ya know. Even with the best of intentions God does not let you plan your life down to the tinest details and things do happen. So yes if you are going along in life and then SURPRISE you become pregnant - now you have to quit your job so you can stay home to raise your child only to have to start all over again. For a career oriented person such as myself - yes I would equate this to my world starting to crumble. I can't afford to quit my job and take care of a baby but I wouldn't want a 2 month old child in day care either. So what am I to CHOOSE to do? Do you not see the gaping CRACK!

Accidents happen.

~Amanda

 

[Tetley]

Hi, I work at the EI office....

In Canada, Maternity leave is for 15 weeks, only the mother can draw these weeks.
Parental leave is for 35 weeks, mother, father or adoptive parents can draw out these weeks and share them between them.
The rate is 55% of your gross earnings up to a maximum of $413/week
You need 600 hours to qualify for these benefits.
If needed, the mother can also draw out 15 weeks of sickness benefits. (for example, the mother becomes ill before the birth of the baby, she can draw 15 weeks sickness, then 15 weeks maternity and then 35 parental for a total of 65 weeks.)

 

[jmmom80]

It is simply that black and white to you isn't it?

yes, it is. i'm responsible for my choices, and you are responsible for yours.

of course "baby accidents" happen. i still don't see why your "accident" is my responsibility. if you become pregnant by accident, then you have to make a choice about either working or staying home. but to then turn around and say that you want the best of both worlds, at someone else's expense, is just wrong imo.

 

[septbride2002]

of course "baby accidents" happen. i still don't see why your "accident" is my responsibility. if you become pregnant by accident, then you have to make a choice about either working or staying home. but to then turn around and say that you want the best of both worlds, at someone else's expense, is just wrong imo

Are we all reading the same thread? How many times to residents of Canada have to explain - it is called employment insurance - you pay into it for the benefit of yourself - that way should you have to use it - there ya go. I'm not asking you to pay it for me! I will have already been paying into the dang system and therefore at that time collecting the benefit. Then when I go back to work - guess what! I start paying into it again.

Again I'm not asking you to take care of my accident. I would however like more choices then just quit a job and stay home or work and try to afford day care. Lets not forget that if I quit my job my family no longer has health insurance either! I'm glad you don't have to worry about this stuff but there are a lot of Americans that do. And I think that is the point - I don't think we should do an exact copy cat of the Canadian system but I definately think that there are alternatives that need to be considered in regards to health care and child care. Of course with the American mentality of "Whats in it for me" I don't see how we will ever get there.

I really do think you are coming off very rude by using the word EXPECT all the time. It says to me that you think Canadians and other various countries are just a bunch of lazy individuals that EXPECT you to take care of them all the time.

~Amanda

 

[DIZNYFAN]

Nicely put Septbride

 

[totalia]

Originally posted by Beth76
So, what happens if you never get laid off or never go on maternity leave? You paid all that money for someone *else* to use and you got no benefit. I am a SAHM and I'm against maternity leave. It was my choice to stay home and lose my income. We live without a lot of things because of my lost income---and that's fine with us. I don't think it's fair for others to pay for someone to NOT work. If you get a year's worth of paid maternity leave, that's like a year's worth of vacation. You are getting paid to NOT work--that's vacation. Just because you're not traveling doesn't mean it's not "vacation time".

I have no problem with that. At least I know that someone got the benefits of it.

hpsauce, you have such a great way of putting things. I agree with you completely.

Originally posted by septbride2002
It is simply that black and white to you isn't it? The reason I didn't want to get into this on the National Healthcare threat for this reason exactly. Things are not black and white. People can get pregnant by accident - ya know. Even with the best of intentions God does not let you plan your life down to the tinest details and things do happen. So yes if you are going along in life and then SURPRISE you become pregnant - now you have to quit your job so you can stay home to raise your child only to have to start all over again. For a career oriented person such as myself - yes I would equate this to my world starting to crumble. I can't afford to quit my job and take care of a baby but I wouldn't want a 2 month old child in day care either. So what am I to CHOOSE to do? Do you not see the gaping CRACK!

Bravo. Exactly.

Originally posted by septbride2002
Are we all reading the same thread? How many times to residents of Canada have to explain - it is called employment insurance - you pay into it for the benefit of yourself - that way should you have to use it - there ya go. I'm not asking you to pay it for me! I will have already been paying into the dang system and therefore at that time collecting the benefit. Then when I go back to work - guess what! I start paying into it again.

Again I'm not asking you to take care of my accident. I would however like more choices then just quit a job and stay home or work and try to afford day care. Lets not forget that if I quit my job my family no longer has health insurance either! I'm glad you don't have to worry about this stuff but there are a lot of Americans that do. And I think that is the point - I don't think we should do an exact copy cat of the Canadian system but I definately think that there are alternatives that need to be considered in regards to health care and child care. Of course with the American mentality of "Whats in it for me" I don't see how we will ever get there.

I really do think you are coming off very rude by using the word EXPECT all the time. It says to me that you think Canadians and other various countries are just a bunch of lazy individuals that EXPECT you to take care of them all the time.

Another extremely well put post and a very good argument.

 

[clutter]

Isn't the bumper sticker "It's a CHILD, not a CHOICE"??

 

[Jenn Lynn]

OK, so if I am understanding the Canadian Employment Insurance. When a Mom goes on maternity leave the employer is no longer paying her salary OR the EI. So they can afford to hire a temp with the unused salary? Is that how it works?

I think the problem some are having is that it is Government mandated payment. Although, according to the law, you have to have car insurance also.

I personally would not mind an Employment/Maternity insurance that I could choose to pay if I was working. I think it is a good idea.

 

[DIZNYFAN]

You are essentially correct and when the year is up the mother goes back to the job at full salary/wage and seniority.