LL Premier Pass is here!

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I might splurge a day or 2 for this ....and I do know what I am doing. I just don't want to do it on a couple of days of my trip....i'm a Type A that wants to try and be a Type B for a day or 2. I want to shop and stroll and explore and eat and go wherever I want to in the park at whatever time I want to - and still ride all of the rides. No phones!

I also think Disney kinda made more Type A people over the years because of the products they had. Legacy FP seemed to be the least, of course you had the runners and all that, yes FPs ran out but it didn't seem to carry the same urgency or at least maybe the same amount of people who fell into being that type A person were less. I did not have spreadsheets prior to my 2017 trip lol nor did I even consider planning out what attractions in what order I'd want.

My husband and I do well on flexibility but it's not that easy at the Disney parks to do that when us, who don't go frequently, are more ride focused, sure we decide in that moment if we want to ride that ride with X amount of wait time but it does play into our thoughts that okay maybe that's a bit too long but at the same time will this still be here in 5 years when we go next, that sort of thinking. That said because we've been enough times we know it's NBD if we don't get on Peter Pan for instance.

I didn't even have Express Pass on my prior to 2022 Universal trip but I appreciated far more than I realized at the time that type of product and this is a step in that direction. That's why I think some people are underestimating who would be interested in this. I do think people may be selective in the days, like you said, a day or two you'd like to tour differently.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I just don’t get it. Do people think this is their only option and that’s why they are upset? Or are people upset they can’t afford it and want it?

Instead of having a simple-to-use Express Pass, Disney created an overly complex short-wait system that they keep changing. They can't even keep the name simple. Their system has/had myriad names: Lightning Lane, Genie, Genie+, Fastpass, Individual LL, Multi-Pass LL, Single Pass LL, Boarding Group, Premier, tiers, return time window, etc.

Using each variation of the above has complex rules the parkgoers need to learn and relearn. If you want to book a pass, you have to know to book your first 3 passes seven days in advance. When parkgoers want to book additional passes, they have to go through multiple screens and the return time of the pass keeps changing between each screen. the whole thing is a mess.

Now they are adding a pricey remedy for the monster they created.

If you aren't bothered by this, so be it. Many people don't like paying for things that are unnecessarily confusing just for the purpose of charging them more money.

 

[DisneyFive]

I also think Disney kinda made more Type A people over the years because of the products they had. Legacy FP seemed to be the least, of course you had the runners and all that, yes FPs ran out but it didn't seem to carry the same urgency or at least maybe the same amount of people who fell into being that type A person were less. I did not have spreadsheets prior to my 2017 trip lol nor did I even consider planning out what attractions in what order I'd want.

Great point. Sometimes it's hard to remember back to paper FP. It was a lot less Type A.

The only truly crazy part was the running of the bulls right at rope drop to get your first FP (Toy Story at HS, Soarin at EP, etc...) ...and the all day runners. (count me in that group). I remember having a wallet stuffed with paper FP's for our party of 7 at the time especially since you could bank them for later.

You are right though, I still had a spreadsheet but it wasn't about rides per se it was just our overall week schedule with our top priorities, dining reservations, park schedule, parade times, etc...

 

[mickeyluv'r]

FP has been gone for years now, people need to get over it.

Why?

If people don't want to buy what Disney is currently selling, they are free to dislike it. They are free to express their opinion as they choose.

And as I said, many are simply laughing over the absurdity of WDW's decision to change FP over and over.

 

[angelmav]

I mean, people said no Magic Express would impact attendance, charging for FP would impact attendance, Dining plans going up in price, removing tips, etc would have an impact. I’ll say it right now, if this becomes the only line skip it still won’t impact attendance.

Once a few TR come out about how magical day the Mucho Dinero family had because of the LLP while so many people looked glum waiting in line it will be the hot new thing that is a must have.

 

[DisneyFive]

I mean, people said no Magic Express would impact attendance, charging for FP would impact attendance, Dining plans going up in price, removing tips, etc would have an impact. I’ll say it right now, if this becomes the only line skip it still won’t impact attendance.

Once a few TR come out about how magical day the Mucho Dinero family had because of the LLP while so many people looked glum waiting in line it will be the hot new thing that is a must have.

Death by a thousand cuts. The cost of WDW today does seem to be having an impact. Disney themselves has stated that they expect future attendance/bookings to be soft. One article:
https://www.wdwmagic.com/other/walt...tinue-at-walt-disney-world-and-disneyland.htm

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Great point. Sometimes it's hard to remember back to paper FP. It was a lot less Type A.

The only truly crazy part was the running of the bulls right at rope drop to get your first FP (Toy Story at HS, Soarin at EP, etc...) ...and the all day runners. (count me in that group). I remember having a wallet stuffed with paper FP's for our party of 7 at the time especially since you could bank them for later.

You are right though, I still had a spreadsheet but it wasn't about rides per se it was just our overall week schedule with our top priorities, dining reservations, park schedule, parade times, etc...

I just called up a spreadsheet from April 2014, back when MK had EMH every morning from 7-8am, regular MK hours were 8am-midnight, plus there was 3 hours of PM EMH 3 times that week (MK, HS, and Epcot). It had our dining and Fastpasses listed, but mostly we just toured as we pleased in the moment.

But also, back then we used to go to WDW with our extended family as a group of 10+, so my travel notes have everyone's travel information and hotel reservations.

If someone slept late, it was easy to have them just join up with the group. If they missed out on a free FP, nobody gave it a second thought. If someone missed an entire park day, the loss was less than $5!

That was just 10 years ago, but it feels like a lifetime ago.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I mean, people said no Magic Express would impact attendance, charging for FP would impact attendance, Dining plans going up in price, removing tips, etc would have an impact. I’ll say it right now, if this becomes the only line skip it still won’t impact attendance.

On what basis are you reporting this?


According to the AECOM TEA report, attendance in thousands for 2023:
MK was 17,720 - still #1, but US Tokyo is getting closer - in 2019 MK was 20,963
Disneyland was ranked #2
Universal Tokyo was 16,000 - up 30% - now ranked #3, was at #5 in 2019
Epcot was ranked #8 worldwide- down from #7 in 2019
HS was ranked #10, down from #9 in 2019
AK was ranked #16 - down from #6 in 2019.

 

[Minnie1222]

It's absolutely ludicrous.

What is the price for AK?

 

[StarCruzer]

Instead of having a simple-to-use Express Pass, Disney created an overly complex short-wait system that they keep changing. They can't even keep the name simple. Their system has/had myriad names: Lightning Lane, Genie, Genie+, Fastpass, Individual LL, Multi-Pass LL, Single Pass LL, Boarding Group, Premier, tiers, return time window, etc.

Using each variation of the above has complex rules the parkgoers need to learn and relearn. If you want to book a pass, you have to know to book your first 3 passes seven days in advance. When parkgoers want to book additional passes, they have to go through multiple screens and the return time of the pass keeps changing between each screen. the whole thing is a mess.

Now they are adding a pricey remedy for the monster they created.

If you aren't bothered by this, so be it. Many people don't like paying for things that are unnecessarily confusing just for the purpose of charging them more money.

This sounds very much like the conclusion of the two hour long FastPass documentary on Youtube it was predicted way before the pandemic that Disney would monetize all of the line issues that they accidentally created

 

[scrappinginontario]

It was predicted years ago by many that Disney would continue to raise prices until they found the sweet spot for that moment.

In the latter teen years (2016 - 2019) the parks were CROWDED! Guests complained that they paid a ton of money and could do only a fraction of what they wanted.

Podcasts back then pridicted
- increased prices
- paid fastpasses
- anything needed to decrease the attendance so that guests could enjoy parks with less people in them.

We're seeing this. Disney will always change things. Many things I will like, some things I won't but, I'm continuing to go back so for now, the changes they are making are still working for me.

I still plan a trip that works for our family. We go in the heat of the summer to lessen the crowds. We stay value and no longer purchase the DDP and rarely eat at TS locations. LLMP occasionally. LLPP is nothing but a pipe dream for us but, I'm still happy to go to Disney and do what I can within my budget. I could go elsewhere but, for now it's still Disney for us the majority of vacations.

LLPP is here for those who want it but nobody HAS to purchase it. We have options and for that I am thankful.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

Regarding comparing this to VIP tours, I actually prefer this Premier Pass a lot more.

I just don't like the idea of some random person (as nice as they may be) involved in our family time all day. It's just not our style. Making small talk, being paraded around, figuring how much of a gratuity they deserve at the end...

With this Premier Pass, it's a set price and a known benefit that we can do at our own pace and schedule. We're park veterans and have our own touring style and don't need to be led around.

Do I ever see us purchasing this? No, but I like the concept more than VIP.

This is us. We got off the waitlist for a VIP tour for our one-day trip last week and I honestly considered it for a hot second before realizing that the price is preposterous, especially for our touring group of 4. Ultimately, it's the same cost as a whole additional 5 day trip, which we're now taking in December. I did see a bunch of plaids out that day, though, some who only had couples in their charge. And I know families who go to WDW rarely but who only ever go with a VIP guide, so this offering is unlikely to appeal to them. But for us, it's a perfect if costly in-between offering for when we choose WDW over UO/IOA. I prefer the privacy and the ability to pop into shops or meals, or deal with longer than average lightning lanes or pre shows without feeling like a 500/hr meter is running.

Instead of having a simple-to-use Express Pass, Disney created an overly complex short-wait system that they keep changing. They can't even keep the name simple. Their system has/had myriad names: Lightning Lane, Genie, Genie+, Fastpass, Individual LL, Multi-Pass LL, Single Pass LL, Boarding Group, Premier, tiers, return time window, etc.

Using each variation of the above has complex rules the parkgoers need to learn and relearn. If you want to book a pass, you have to know to book your first 3 passes seven days in advance. When parkgoers want to book additional passes, they have to go through multiple screens and the return time of the pass keeps changing between each screen. the whole thing is a mess.

Now they are adding a pricey remedy for the monster they created.

If you aren't bothered by this, so be it. Many people don't like paying for things that are unnecessarily confusing just for the purpose of charging them more money.

In tech there is a term for this that I can't print here, in PG terms it's "enpoopification". In other words, intentionally making a system or UI overly complex, onerous, or time-consuming, and then offering users a way to buy their way out of dealing with it. TSA Precheck lines are a good example. FP+ required advance knowledge and research, but the system was user-friendly when it didn't glitch. Boarding passes for ROTR were a bit trickier because you had to be scanned into the park, but they were still free and right there on the loading screen. Whoever designed Genie+ and now LLMP/SP, on the other hand, deserves to be fired. But they're probably getting a raise instead for designing something so aggravating people will pay $400 per person not to have to use it. Talk about failing up.

 

[jennab]

Instead of having a simple-to-use Express Pass, Disney created an overly complex short-wait system that they keep changing. They can't even keep the name simple. Their system has/had myriad names: Lightning Lane, Genie, Genie+, Fastpass, Individual LL, Multi-Pass LL, Single Pass LL, Boarding Group, Premier, tiers, return time window, etc.

Using each variation of the above has complex rules the parkgoers need to learn and relearn. If you want to book a pass, you have to know to book your first 3 passes seven days in advance. When parkgoers want to book additional passes, they have to go through multiple screens and the return time of the pass keeps changing between each screen. the whole thing is a mess.

Now they are adding a pricey remedy for the monster they created.

If you aren't bothered by this, so be it. Many people don't like paying for things that are unnecessarily confusing just for the purpose of charging them more money.

But the new one isn’t necessarily confusing right? Pay their high fee and enjoy your day. Your examples are talking about the passes you need to pre-book. So again, I don’t get why people are mad about the new one other than they don’t like the price.

 

[jennab]

Why?

If people don't want to buy what Disney is currently selling, they are free to dislike it. They are free to express their opinion as they choose.

And as I said, many are simply laughing over the absurdity of WDW's decision to change FP over and over.

Because it’s not coming back. That’s what people need to get over. Some people seem to think if they hold out Disney will bring back FP…. People dont need to buy anything Disney is selling, but they also need to let go of the past.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Because it’s not coming back. That’s what people need to get over. Some people seem to think if they hold out Disney will bring back FP…. People dont need to buy anything Disney is selling, but they also need to let go of the past.

I'm under no illusions it's coming back, that ship sailed when MaxPass was introduced and it was well received, but it has become frustrating to learn a new system every time I've gone, it's just a lot of layers there.

2011-Legacy FP
2017 FP+
2019 MaxPass
2022 Genie+ and ILL
didn't even get another trip in between that when they switched from Genie+ and ILL to LLSP and LLMP and oh now there's LL Premier Pass.

People are talking about the constant changes and Disney not being able to pin down a system and stick with it for long enough. For some people that go frequently this may not seem as big of an issue as you're going to go anyhow you'll figure it out but for people who go infrequently (which comprises of a lot of people outside the DIS world) it's an irritation point.

I know you've mentioned the "just get over it" mentality over on the DAS thread and I didn't disagree with you there, however, at the same time I think you employed understanding there in why people were upset, whereas here you're just repeating get over it to a point that I'm not sure many are even saying they feel. I wish I could have free FPs again but don't we all wish we didn't have to pay for something and just got it included? I don't feel like that's crazy talk there.

 

[angelmav]

On what basis are you reporting this?


According to the AECOM TEA report, attendance in thousands for 2023:
MK was 17,720 - still #1, but US Tokyo is getting closer - in 2019 MK was 20,963
Disneyland was ranked #2
Universal Tokyo was 16,000 - up 30% - now ranked #3, was at #5 in 2019
Epcot was ranked #8 worldwide- down from #7 in 2019
HS was ranked #10, down from #9 in 2019
AK was ranked #16 - down from #6 in 2019.

Reporting? I’m not a newscaster, lol. I’m just saying if you go back and look at any of those changes people said that was their deal breaker, that attendance would surely suffer.

The parks are literally Disney Companies bread and butter right now, papering over other problem areas. This just follows their goals of making as much off 1 guest as 10.

I don’t even think only having the LLPP as the one and only would be a bad thing. Pay a premium price for a magical day or have much more manageable standby lines. The weird thing will be the amalgamation of systems. I’m not sure that will work all that well depending on crowd flow at any particular time, especially if the anytime pass exceeds expectations.

I for one am very curious to see the rollout/demand/reports.

 

[Disturbia]

I just watched a vlogger and them seem to think LL single pass and LL multi pass will go eventually and it will just be this expensive premium one

Does anyone think this will be the case?

That will be my family priced out from going and unfortunately my 3 year old twins aren’t going to wait in long queues all day. Hopeless this

I don’t think they will get rid of the LLMP and LLSP. They’re big money makers.

 

[Disturbia]

I think all of us Type As who want to try to be Type B on vacation -- for our own benefit and our families/friends' benefit -- are a prime market for this. I have been both on vacation, and we all are happier when I am more chill.

Try is the key word

 

[Disturbia]

I just called up a spreadsheet from April 2014, back when MK had EMH every morning from 7-8am, regular MK hours were 8am-midnight, plus there was 3 hours of PM EMH 3 times that week (MK, HS, and Epcot). It had our dining and Fastpasses listed, but mostly we just toured as we pleased in the moment.

But also, back then we used to go to WDW with our extended family as a group of 10+, so my travel notes have everyone's travel information and hotel reservations.

If someone slept late, it was easy to have them just join up with the group. If they missed out on a free FP, nobody gave it a second thought. If someone missed an entire park day, the loss was less than $5!

That was just 10 years ago, but it feels like a lifetime ago.

I have the free souvenir maps they used to give. I used to print a park map and chart which direction we would be going and what rides were a priority. We rarely looked at our phones which was a welcome break.

 

[jennab]

I'm under no illusions it's coming back, that ship sailed when MaxPass was introduced and it was well received, but it has become frustrating to learn a new system every time I've gone, it's just a lot of layers there.

2011-Legacy FP
2017 FP+
2019 MaxPass
2022 Genie+ and ILL
didn't even get another trip in between that when they switched from Genie+ and ILL to LLSP and LLMP and oh now there's LL Premier Pass.

People are talking about the constant changes and Disney not being able to pin down a system and stick with it for long enough. For some people that go frequently this may not seem as big of an issue as you're going to go anyhow you'll figure it out but for people who go infrequently (which comprises of a lot of people outside the DIS world) it's an irritation point.

I know you've mentioned the "just get over it" mentality over on the DAS thread and I didn't disagree with you there, however, at the same time I think you employed understanding there in why people were upset, whereas here you're just repeating get over it to a point that I'm not sure many are even saying they feel. I wish I could have free FPs again but don't we all wish we didn't have to pay for something and just got it included? I don't feel like that's crazy talk there.

I just feel like people keep bringing up FP and how they want it back over and over again. I believe that was a comment I initially responded to. I get comparing new to old, but at some point people need to let go.

Same with DAS, it changed. Deal with it and move on to something new or don’t . I am probably more empathetic there because we are talking about people with disabilities who already have a harder time in life and I can relate. But in general, I find it best with most things to try to look forward rather than stay in the past. However, maybe I’m just reading people’s comments about FP differently than they mean them (definitely can happen with written text vs verbal conversations). I also don’t mean to come off as harsh as I sound. More like, stop waiting for something to come back that never will