Little girl on DS's ice hockey team and locker room question

[KatheeME]

I find it odd that you would expect her to give the boys 10 extra minutes when she is given none for her needs. Maybe if your son was the only boy on the team you would see things differently. I still find your comments to be a bit one sided. No offense intended.

I agree with you Sleepy. The solution is simple, if there is one locker room, EQUAL time is given to the boys and the girls, regardless of how many of either sex are on a given team. If there are 2 locker rooms, both get ready in their own, but the coach talks to them OUTSIDE of either locker room. It's sime for the old boys club ideas to go away.

And, yes, I know of what I speak, I have 2 dds that played many sports from nursery school age. all the way through college, and the old stereotypes are still rampant, even with Title 9.

 

[LadyBears]

Wow!!!

I have lots of thoughts on this, but putting them into words that are not confusing to everyone (or myself!)...

I want to preface this by saying that I am the mother of a DD8 who has played ice hockey since she was 3 & has been on travel teams for the last 4 years...My DH is one of her coaches & he is also on the Board of Directors. So I do understand ALL sides to this.

Please understand you are looking at this from the perspective of a mother of one young son. When my DD first started, "I" felt the same way as you. Now, after all these years, we are used to it.

Our hockey league is just one of many ice hockey teams/ice skating groups that RENTS the ice time from one of our state owned rinks. We do NOT own the facility. We have rules we as a league must follow to use this facility. Our "home" facility has 5 dressing rooms - 4 for teams & 1 for the officials.
Of the 4 for teams, each is usually being used by a team so therefore can NOT be used for an individual.

When it comes to your team, the coach is just a coach. He most likely does not own the ice rink. He does not make the rules. We have to follow the rules set by the league which in turn needs to follow the rules of the rink they are renting from. If the rink says "no" when we ask for the key to the officials room, we have no choice but to use the general locker room.


For our league (yes, it is co-ed), the Mites & Squirts will get dressed in the same locker room as they do not take showers after the games at this level.
All of the kids will either come already in uniform OR will have on shorts/thermal bottoms/pj bottoms & a shirt or under armor on. We have just as many Moms in the locker room as we do Dads. It is extremely rare to have a boy strip down to his undies. Actually at this point - the boys think of my DD as a sister so probably wouldn't even think anything of it!! At this age, DD is so used to seeing them that she isn't "seeing" them, KWIM??? She thinks of them as brothers.


When we have the girls in the locker room getting ready to go on the ice immediately after the "big boys" (any male who has hit puberty & will be taking a shower after their game) come off the ice, the coaches of the "big boys" will hold them in the locker room until our team has left the dressing room to get on the ice. When the locker room is "female free" the "big boys" are free to to handstands while naked if they want....

With that being said, as I have previously mentioned, my DD plays travel hockey. Not every rink has the option of a separate dressing area for the girls. I have been to many rinks where Girls literally get dressed in the public bathroom. Most of these public bathrooms are MUCH smaller than the locker room. Imagine being 1 of 4 girls on a coed team who are getting dressed in a tiny corner of a bathroom while it is being used by the general public just because you happen to be of the same sex as the minority. I prefer my DD where comfy clothes under her clothes. I HATE HATE HATE it when she wants to get FULLY changed & has to use the public bathroom to do so (yes, even just to change her shirt - boys could do that in the middle of the lobby & it is no big deal!). I personally feel that most bathrooms in the rinks my DD has skated in are worse than those in more public places such as the mall or a concert venue!!!!! As long as I am venting about bathrooms - ever notice the bathrooms at an ice rink are right near the rink in the cold part of the building???? They are rarely heated in the same way as the main locker rooms are! I can't imagine being half naked in the cold in public!!

Here is a scenario:
I am sure your son is pretty comfortable in running around the inside of his "home rink". Now imagine that you are on the travel team & are at a new rink or school. You don't know where the bathrooms are, you have a hard time finding the correct locker room. I am sure you do not feel as comfortable at this place, correct? Now try to find a perfect stranger - but which one you don't know, who works at this other rink to ask them where you could find a key or a separate changing area.... great you found this spare room. You get your kid changed. Now... where is the rest of the team? Are they on the total opposite side of the arena? Did they start their team meeting yet? Are they aware that you are even there??

It gets much harder for the girls as they get older & travel more - doesn't it??!!!!

Back OT:

But the thing is...my son doesn't want her in there. He doesn't want to get changed in front of her. Last week she was sitting on the bench right next to him while he was trying to get unchanged and into his uniform - he was very uncomfortable. I can't blame him. Why would her parents dress her at home for a game because they don't want her to feel uncomfortable - but allow her to be in there and watch all the boys get changed and unchanged? I think thats pretty inconsiderate and I want to email the coach about it - am I being unreasonable?

Trust me, with 10 boys & 3 girls in one room, there is a greater chance for one boy to be "watching all the girls get changed & unchanged" than there is for one girl who is too busy talking game or strategy or about a new stick or new skates to be in there and watch all the boys get changed and unchanged.

You are more than welcome to treat your son the same way the girls are - take HIM into the filthy public mens bathroom to get changed - away from the prying eyes of an 8 y/o girl. If you do not want to take him into the mens room to change, be sure you get there first so you can get a corner spot in the locker room that way you can hold up a huge towel around your son as he gets dressed/undressed.

Off my soapbox... I hope I was able to get you to see this through the eyes of the girl!

 

[transparant]

I have been to many rinks where Girls literally get dressed in the public bathroom

.

Sorry your dd has to sometimes get changed in a bathroom. Another reason why I think there should be a changing room for the girls and for the boys. That way she/you wouldn't have to do this.

Trust me, with 10 boys & 3 girls in one room, there is a greater chance for one boy to be "watching all the girls get changed & unchanged"

Another reason why I think there should be a changing room for boy and girls. That way the girls aren't "being watched" or made uncomfortable either. Like I said in an earlier post - the figure skaters have separate boy/girl changing rooms.

You are more than welcome to treat your son the same way the girls are - take HIM into the filthy public mens bathroom to get changed - away from the prying eyes of an 8 y/o girl. If you do not want to take him into the mens room to change, be sure you get there first so you can get a corner spot in the locker room that way you can hold up a huge towel around your son as he gets dressed/undressed.

The girls shouldn't have to be treated that way. If there was a "Girls changing room" this wouldn't be a problem the poor girls wouldn't have to go through this.

I hope I was able to get you to see this through the eyes of the girl!

Last time I checked...I was still a girl.

Thanks for everyones input. I'm over it. I actually didn't put much thought into it until my son and 2 other boys said something last weekend. We do go to church right after some games - so he does have to sometimes get changed down to underwear and than re-dressed into church clothes. This little girl has never been "right next to him" on the bench before either - so that could have triggered his uncomfortableness. For the games that are later on Sundays - I'll just dress him in long johns or something.

 

[Geoff_M]

Ahhh, well color me wrong. My kids were never involved in ice hockey..they used locker rooms for football and swimming, perhaps that is why I haven't encountered these unisex locker rooms. I guess I don't really see the point of a locker room if you don't get changed there, but since that seems to be the case I guess transparent's son will just have to get comfortable with it or not use it.

As others have attested, this scenario is by no means rare and is common at hockey rinks for teams of this level. My 8 year old son is now a Mite and he has a girl on his team. The locker room is unisex at this age level. Moms and even sisters are normally in there too. My son's teammate, Hannah, shows up dressed... as do several other of the boys on the team. If someone's 8 year old son has a problem, they can also put his pants, shin guards, and socks on at at home and put on his skates, shoulder pads, etc. when he get to the rink... or there's usually a bathroom stall in the locker room or down the hall if they can't get dressed at home. This arrangement also was the case last season with my older son's PeeWee team (also co-ed).

BTW... Here's my Mite and Bantam:

 

[Sandy321]

My dd 9 changes at home cause it's easier. Most of the boys on her team are already dressed when they arrive-too crowded to get dressed there. Can your son get dressed at home?

Very, very true!

Well its been a very long time since my son played hockey (He's 22 now!! ) but he always had a girl on his team (and they were alway very good!)

There arent any easy answers, but it seems to me communication is important -

My son also wore underarmour type clothing - and like another poster explained, the equipment is like a Nascar Pit stop getting him ready when he was a mite and a squirt!!

We were very lucky in the respect he started playing hockey at age 4 - through a hockey school for the hearing impaired - it went from age 4 - high school - and the managers of the school (Stan Mikita, and others) arranged that the High School team got off the ice as the beginners were getting ready to get ON the ice...

Imagine my shock that first day when all these high school boys come (stinkin) in and strippin - I wanted out of there - but the boys did have the underarmour type clothes on, and explained they were the younger kids "Big Brothers" and would help teach us and our kids how to get things going!! It was a shock, but a very important lesson on this "brotherhood of Hockey"

Good Luck!

 

[BrerMom]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never dressed a 7 yr old for hockey. The first time I had to get my son dressed I wished I had written instructions on what went where, and how you attached it! Of course, we were dumb bunnies and used sock garters for his socks. That lasted a year, and since then he has the gear with velcro that hold up the socks, and then we tape it top and bottom. However, I digress...

Suffice it to say getting these kids dressed reminds me of a Nascar pit stop. There is a lot of equipment and most of it has straps, buckles, snaps or laces. My son gets dressed himself now, but when we were still helping him he would often be putting elbow pads on while we tied skates, etc. I am sure a 7 yr old could do it...eventually...but the game might be over by the time he was done!

WOW! ... Can't an 8 year old get dressed alone? ...

This is clearly a case of the coach not setting limitations and teaching these kids that dressing out in uniform is a standard thing to do and one must learn how to dress themselves without the help of mommy and daddy.

Well, you're right on one count - my DS8 knows where things go better than I do, but he's not physically capable of doing it himself. And I still can't tie his skates tight enough. If DH is out of town, his brother has to come with me or I ask another dad to help. I don't know of ANY mites or mini-mites that tie their own skates. Our older DS didn't start tying his own until he was Pee-Wee.

Hockey is definitely a different animal. I think I can claim the title of "Hockey Mom" with pride.

The first year had a huge learning curve for me. Our older DS started when he was older, so I had to adapt to a lot of things very quickly. The hugest hurdle for me was the locker room. "Are you sure I'm supposed to come in?" Moms/sisters/female players are still in the locker rooms with PeeWees here. It doesn't seem to bother the boys at all; it bothered me more than them.

I loved DS' team last year and still sit with some of those moms this year because we bonded in the locker room - the coach treated the parents as part of the team and by the end of the season, we felt like it. This year, DS is a Bantam and no more moms in the locker room. I still haven't figured out which parent matches which kid.

Pajama pants are very common. The one-piece jock/shorts combo is also popular. And contrary to others' experiences, there are plenty of 7 & 8-year-olds bouncing around the locker room in their undies in DS' locker room. Not a big deal.

This is the only sport I know where shared locker rooms is the norm. Coming from swimming as the previous sport of choice, it was quite a shock. But there are so many advantages. The entire team AND the parents hear the pre-game or pre-practice speech. More parents volunteer to help here than any other sport I've seen. At some practices, it's a 1 to 3 ratio on the ice. Often times, the parent meetings occur in the locker room while the kids are getting undressed. The parents help get the helmets & skates off, then come to the middle of the room to hear what the coach has to say. That whole concept of a group of adults all helping to guide a group of kids? It's here.

 

[LadyBears]

Another reason why I think there should be a changing room for boy and girls. That way the girls aren't "being watched" or made uncomfortable either. Like I said in an earlier post - the figure skaters have separate boy/girl changing rooms.

Why would her parents dress her at home for a game because they don't want her to feel uncomfortable - but allow her to be in there and watch all the boys get changed and unchanged? I think thats pretty inconsiderate and I want to email the coach about it - am I being unreasonable?

At our rink, we rarely see the figure skaters. We are predominantly hockey. I have only seen figure skaters there on a learn to skate basis from ending at 5pm when hockey starts for the night. All that they have to change is their skates. I know we have figure skaters - I have seen their pictures on the bullitin boards. Our league buys the ice time in blocks - figure skaters wouldn't be in the rink at the same time as hockey players.

If you look at the big picture, the first 5 hockey years (Mites & Squirts) (ages 10 & under) - it is one locker room for all. For the next 4 years on a one sex team - this isn't an issue at all.

You are the one with a problem about the kids "being watched". Your post make it sound like the girl on your sons team is a sexual preditor who is after your son. The kids in our league do not look at each other in that way. They are just team mates. That's it. It is no different than you being a Mom in the boys locker room.

The girls shouldn't have to be treated that way. If there was a "Girls changing room" this wouldn't be a problem the poor girls wouldn't have to go through this.

Most of the rinks around here are many years old. Females did not play hockey in the numbers that they do now. Like I said - usually, when there are multiple locker rooms, they are all being used by multiple teams. Not all rinks are privately run - where are the funds going to come from to build extra locker rooms for just a couple of the odd-sex out players per team??

If my DD still chooses to play with the boys when she is in high school, we can make arrangements for her to use the officials room. BUT that is ONLY at our rink that she can be guaranteed that. Other rinks won't let players do that.

My DD going to the bathroom to change a shirt is a small price to pay for her being on a co-ed team.

Also, for the record - DD has always been the only girl on her mite team. This is the first year we have 3 girls on the team. At the beginning of the season, I asked the boys if they want the girls to see if they can use the other room. The boys all said no - they are on the team, they should stay with the team.

Once I asked one of the girls who was changing in the public bathroom about it because as a Mom to a DD who plays, I was curious about DD's future. The girl I was speaking with was a senior in high school. (Normally, because of the physical differences & the strength behind the checking, girls & boys don't play together in these upper levels of hockey.) Basically what she told me was - "yeah it sucks to have to change in here, but knowing when I get out on that ice & I'm out skating & out scoring the boys on the other team (& even some of my own team mates) - well that makes being a girl in here for a few minutes all worth it."

Last time I checked...I was still a girl.

Sorry, I knew you were a Mom. I meant through the eyes of a girl hockey player.

 

[declansdad]

I agree with you Sleepy. The solution is simple, if there is one locker room, EQUAL time is given to the boys and the girls, regardless of how many of either sex are on a given team. If there are 2 locker rooms, both get ready in their own, but the coach talks to them OUTSIDE of either locker room. It's sime for the old boys club ideas to go away.

And, yes, I know of what I speak, I have 2 dds that played many sports from nursery school age. all the way through college, and the old stereotypes are still rampant, even with Title 9.

This is not the "old boys club." In most rinks you have dressing rooms and a rink. There is no where else for the coach to talk with the team.

 

[#1hockeymom]

I've skimmed through these comments and looking back on my DH's hockey "career" (he's currently a second year Bantam) lol I have to just laugh at thinking of a coach trying to get all those kids dressed and laced because parents weren't in the rooms at the mite and mini mite level because someone freaked out.

These are kids! They can't get on all the equipment in hockey by themselves at that age. They definitely can't get their skates laced properly. Coaches talk to the parents and the kids while in the locker room. It is where most o the information at that age is passed around whether in verbal or written format.

I have had girls on my son's team over the years. When they were young, they got dressed with the boys. When older, they got dressed in another locker room and then would come into the boy's locker room. It really wasn't considered the "boys" locker room though, but the TEAM'S locker room. The last team he was on with a girl was as a second year PeeWee. The girl was the coach's daughter.

Geoff_m>> cute picture!

Debbie<---- who has to run downstairs again to change the ice out on DS's knee due to a cross check in last night's game.

 

[#1hockeymom]

But there are so many advantages. The entire team AND the parents hear the pre-game or pre-practice speech. More parents volunteer to help here than any other sport I've seen. At some practices, it's a 1 to 3 ratio on the ice. Often times, the parent meetings occur in the locker room while the kids are getting undressed. The parents help get the helmets & skates off, then come to the middle of the room to hear what the coach has to say. That whole concept of a group of adults all helping to guide a group of kids? It's here.

This is one of the reasons we've always been behind DS 100 percent in his hockey! We know the parents, we know the kids. Hockey is a group/village that you know will take care of your kid if for some reason you can't and in almost all cases they have the same versions of the rules of life that you do.

Hockey... the COOLEST game on Earth!

 

[Geoff_M]

These are kids! They can't get on all the equipment in hockey by themselves at that age. They definitely can't get their skates laced properly.

Funny side note, our local university has summer hockey camps. They have camps for Mites through Midgets. For the younger kids they hire college students that (since the kids move back and forth from the ice to the swimming pool and street hockey several times a day) do nothing but dress and undress kids and tie and untie skates ALL DAY!

 

[transparant]

Funny side note, our local university has summer hockey camps. They have camps for Mites through Midgets. For the younger kids they hire college students that (since the kids move back and forth from the ice to the swimming pool and street hockey several times a day) do nothing but dress and undress kids and tie and untie skates ALL DAY!

:: My hands would be bleeding! I hope they get paid nicely!

 

[#1hockeymom]

My son went to a hockey camp up at Ferris at that "in between" lacing stage. I called up there the second day and said, "Why isn't anyone lacing these kids' skates? Of COURSE they're going to say they don't need help. The fact is, they're getting blisters on parts of their feet they never have before because they're trying to save face in front of their idols, the college hockey players!

I asked him how the next day went. He said they had guys in there lacing skates! He never knew mommy called, thank God!

 

[BrerMom]

 

[KatheeME]

This is not the "old boys club." In most rinks you have dressing rooms and a rink. There is no where else for the coach to talk with the team.

I know this. You talk on the bench, the hallway, where ever it takes, to make it equal and no girls are made to feel like they are in the "boys" locker room, when in fact, if there is one locker room, it's the locker room, period. This doesn't work in 2007 with co ed teams.

 

[KatheeME]

I have had girls on my son's team over the years. When they were young, they got dressed with the boys. When older, they got dressed in another locker room and then would come into the boy's locker room. It really wasn't considered the "boys" locker room though, but the TEAM'S locker room.

Why not have the boys go into the girls locker room for the team talk? Still have the team meet in the boys locker room furthers the blarney of boys having "home turf"!

 

[declansdad]

I know this. You talk on the bench, the hallway, where ever it takes, to make it equal and no girls are made to feel like they are in the "boys" locker room, when in fact, if there is one locker room, it's the locker room, period. This doesn't work in 2007 with co ed teams.

I have had girls on my son's team over the years. When they were young, they got dressed with the boys. When older, they got dressed in another locker room and then would come into the boy's locker room. It really wasn't considered the "boys" locker room though, but the TEAM'S locker room.

Why not have the boys go into the girls locker room for the team talk? Still have the team meet in the boys locker room furthers the blarney of boys having "home turf"!

Sorry but I still don't agree. It is a team locker room not a gender locker room. And you have team talks in private, not in hallways or on the bench.

 

[KatheeME]

Sorry but I still don't agree. It is a team locker room not a gender locker room. And you have team talks in private, not in hallways or on the bench.

They can be made private, if they want to. It may be called a team locker room now, but be honest, it's the boys locker room. Don't be afraid of doing things differently, being equal isn't so bad.

 

[LadyBears]

They can be made private, if they want to. It may be called a team locker room now, but be honest, it's the boys locker room. Don't be afraid of doing things differently, being equal isn't so bad.

Sorry - It is impossible to do a team meeting in the narrow hallway or at the bench. It isn't that the coaches are afraid of doing things different - it is a matter of getting the team (& parents if the parents need the info, too) in one place at the same time to give important information. It is hard to yell through a crowded lobby & know that the kids are paying attention to their siblings at the vending machines instead of the coaches. It is hard to give tournament information to the parents while they are at the bench because at some rinks their is just enough room for the players - not the parents too.

It is only the "boys" locker room when the boys have hit puberty & will be taking showers. When we are talking about a bunch of 7-10 y/o kids, you don't need to worry about it - it is strictly "team room".

 

[Sleepy]

Sorry - It is impossible to do a team meeting in the narrow hallway or at the bench. It isn't that the coaches are afraid of doing things different - it is a matter of getting the team (& parents if the parents need the info, too) in one place at the same time to give important information. It is hard to yell through a crowded lobby & know that the kids are paying attention to their siblings at the vending machines instead of the coaches. It is hard to give tournament information to the parents while they are at the bench because at some rinks their is just enough room for the players - not the parents too.

It is only the "boys" locker room when the boys have hit puberty & will be taking showers. When we are talking about a bunch of 7-10 y/o kids, you don't need to worry about it - it is strictly "team room".

Even after the kids reach puberty, unless they have a seperate girls locker room, it doesn't matter how many of each gender you have, it still needs to be considered a locker room (sorry, there is no gender as long as there is only one room) and time has to be SHARED between the genders. I'm sure the girls would like to take a shower too when they hit puberty. Again I keep seeing a lean toward the boys side of this issue. As long as you only have one locker room, there is no "boy's only locker room". There will only be a "boy's alloted time".

Team meetings can still be done in a locker room. Forgive my ignorance, but do sports teams usually have meetings at the same time everyone is getting dresed or do they have them after everyone is settled and can give undivided attention? If it is the later, then I still don't see an issue. Split the time between the genders for everyone to dress, then everyone pile in to the locker room for the talk.

This really is not a complex problem. Just share the time in the locker room so that everyone can comfortably get dressed. Unfortunately, this is not a problem only found in sports. As I said before, I have dealt with this very issue for my son for many years. As long as one has a child with gender in the majority, they just don't seem to understand the concept of sharing TIME in the ONLY dressing room/locker room. It's easier to just say, "Go use the bathroom or the closet."