Line etiquette

[3girls4me05]

It's a line. You wait in it, from beginning to end. The rules apply to everyone. It's really that simple.

Ok I'll bite. So say you are at the grocery store. The person in front of you in line remebers they need eggs. The eggs are about 20 ft away. Do you tell them...sorry, you wait in line from beginning to end? Or do you let them out and back in? I would let them out and back in without a second thought. After all they were there first. I will do the same at Disney. Someone has to leave to go potty then of course they can come back in. After all they were there before me.

 

[MNWDWMANIAC]

OK, let me try it this way. My first response to this part of this thread was to a person who was concerned by other posters who were advocating line blockades. The poster was concerned that if he/she had to leave line to go to the bathroom, he/she wouldn't be let back in.

I do understand your bigger picture and it makes the most sense out of anything else in this thread except for one important thing - it completely ignores reality. The reality is that there will always be people who leave line, expecting to get back in. Whether they were adults who didn't plan properly or whether they were adults who hve irratable bowel syndrome or whatever else they may be - it doesn't make a difference. The reality is that these people exist and that expect the same courtesy they would give - to let somebody back in line. These aren't people who should be blockaded from their families.

Yes, it would be a wonderful world if everybudy stayed in line from beginning to end, or alternatively, got a CM to assist them. But I don't live in a perfect world, I live in a world where people leave the line, so I'm just doing my part to try to convince people that creating blockades isn't appropriate.

I agree blockades are not a mature manner to deal with the situation.

But because it's not a perfect world that doesn't mean we should continue on recklessly pushing our way through this world.

I'm just doing my part to convince people that avoid conflict from the beginning would be the best thing for everyone involved.

We can all see where this whole issue can start and it seems that starting at the beginning of the issue would be the easiest way to keep everyone happy.

We can't argue that because people don't do something "like get a CM to help" that it means they shouldn't.

 

[MNWDWMANIAC]

I didn't miss them, I just didn't address them because I was trying to argue against blockading. Perhaps if you implored the blockaders to go get a CM too, I wouldn't have argued with you at all.

Did the blockaders leave the line?

Do the blockaders know this person isn't just trying to cut?

Why do the blockaders have to be put in this position?

Go get a CM and get back in line the common sense way.

Again.. I don't support people who resort to making it a physical but why are they being put in the position in the first place?

 

[BostonRob]

Oh believe me...I am FAR from worried what you teach your children...what is important to me is that I teach MY children the rules of society and to obey rules at a given location. As far as "THE RULES"...do me a favor, next time you are at WDW go to guest services and ask if you are allowed to leave a line and return OR have a member of your party get in line and the rest join them later...I bet you get the same answer I have given you. Again, it is a common sense, given "rule" at any theme park on the face of the earth. I am SURE it is in writing someplace in each park...whether it be a pamphlet, a sign, etc. Personally, I have never actually looked for one because I do not have any intention of being a line cutter for any reason. Although I think it is okay to leave with a child who is potty training and return, I have never done so...if someone has to potty, we all get out of line and return to the end of the line when we are finished...I am not going to make 50 children (and adults, for that matter) angry at me and my family...WDW IS the Happiest Place on Earth....right???

It seems like neither of us has actually gone to guest services to ask if its OK to return to your place after leaving the line to go to the bathroom, so maybe we shouldn't argue it. And regardless of what we decide, people will still do it, right? The biggest point I'm trying to make is that when somebody does it, other people shouldn't be building "line blockades."
Can you agree with that?

 

[MNWDWMANIAC]

It seems like neither of us has actually gone to guest services to ask if its OK to return to your place after leaving the line to go to the bathroom, so maybe we shouldn't argue it. And regardless of what we decide, people will still do it, right? The biggest point I'm trying to make is that when somebody does it, other people shouldn't be building "line blockades."
Can you agree with that?

I agree there shouldn't be Line Blockades. This has been true from the start.

But would you agree that people should try to find a better, safer easier way to get to their families further up the line then pushing in from the back?

 

[mkycrzy1971]

MNWDWMANIAC....I agree with your logic 100%....you have done a marvelous job of explaining yourself and the common sense rules everyone should understand. However, I think our logic in the midwest (I am from Indiana) must be a little different than that in the "bostonish" area...there is another poster on these boards from the "bostonish" area that is doing the same kind of unreasonable arguing on other threads...it just does not me sense, they argue non-sense, cut-and-dry areas until the thread is closed. Personally, I am finished arguing this topic...I use my head and my heart to know what is right and what is wrong and no one will change my mind on this topic...the rules are the rules, plain and simple folks. Once again, I am not saying there is not room for an occasional exception...the potty training child, but other than that, no way!

 

[perkinsrose]

Cultural Issues: Lining up for Mickey

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/18/weekinreview/18fountain.html

excerpts:

"Europeans, Mr. Rasulo added, "have very different attitudes about how they wait for things." At the Disneyland Resort Paris, while British visitors are orderly, French and Italians "never saw a line they couldn't be in front of."

After the French park opened, Mr. Rasulo said, the company made the lines narrower by moving handrails closer together to try to prevent people from pushing ahead of others. He said the Peter Pan attraction at the Paris park was so popular that it is the only Peter Pan ride in all of Disney's parks to have Fastpass, which allows people to come back at a specific time and is an effective way to control pushy crowds."


"And forget cutting in line at Tokyo Disneyland, where people spread out large mats along the parade route to reserve their spot hours beforehand. No one, Mr. Rasulo said, steps on the mats, and children wait patiently there with their parents until the parade begins. "

 

[BostonRob]

We can all see where this whole issue can start and it seems that starting at the beginning of the issue would be the easiest way to keep everyone happy.

Sure it would. But, again, I live in the real world where everything isn't so perfect. So you keep trying to convince people to do it right from the beginning, and I'll keep trying to convince people to be mature and use good judgement when other people don't behave as perfectly as you suggest they should.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

It seems like neither of us has actually gone to guest services to ask if its OK to return to your place after leaving the line to go to the bathroom, so maybe we shouldn't argue it. And regardless of what we decide, people will still do it, right? The biggest point I'm trying to make is that when somebody does it, other people shouldn't be building "line blockades."
Can you agree with that?

NO, I cannot agree...if I have this issue when I am there on my anniversary trip in Sept I will tell the line cutter to ask a CM to okay they line cutting...otherwise, the person is SOL. It simply is not a proper thing to do. HOWEVER, I will not blockade anyone...maybe cause a stir, but not blockade.

 

[MNWDWMANIAC]

Sure it would. But, again, I live in the real world where everything isn't so perfect. So you keep trying to convince people to do it right from the beginning, and I'll keep trying to convince people to be mature and use good judgement when other people don't behave as perfectly as you suggest they should.

So what you mean to say is... because someone chooses to be inconsiderate and shove their way from the back of the line not considering what other people are wondering or having to deal with and because they choose not to ask a CM to grant them access in a safer and easier manner.... that everyone else should "be mature and use good judgment"??

You didn't really mean that, did you?

Why wouldn't you want to start trying to convince people to "be mature and use good judgment" and ask a CM to help them back in the line. Then you have resolved not only the issue with them needed to get back in line, but you haven't affecting anyone else at all. Then everyone can go on enjoying their vacation and not worry about it.

 

[perkinsrose]

Line-cutting editorial

http://alligatorsinahelicopter.blogspot.com/2007/05/line-cutting.html

"When I was a kid, cutting in line was something that was bad. You saw someone slip ahead of you in line, and you pointed. "Hey! No cutting!"

Now it has been institutionalized."

 

[BostonRob]

I agree there shouldn't be Line Blockades. This has been true from the start.

But would you agree that people should try to find a better, safer easier way to get to their families further up the line then pushing in from the back?

Yes, but I'd temper that with a bit of pragmatism. If it's a simple outside queue and somebody can jump right back in where thery were without disturbing anybody, then I wouldn't suggest they go out of their way to find a CM to escort them over a single chain. But yeah, for many other situations it makes more sense to get a CM to help you than go go pushing your way through.

 

[MNWDWMANIAC]

Yes, but I'd temper that with a bit of pragmatism. If it's a simple outside queue and somebody can jump right back in where thery were without disturbing anybody, then I wouldn't suggest they go out of their way to find a CM to escort them over a single chain. But yeah, for many other situations it makes more sense to get a CM to help you than go go pushing your way through.

That would be the bulk of my argument. Don't allow the problem to occur on the first place. If you see you are going to need a ladder and swinging vine to get through the masses of people why wouldn't you want to ask? Not a single person 200 people back is going to have a clue who you are or if you were ever really in the line when you try to move forward.

It's just not something we can expect people to know. But a CM can gladly escort you to an entry point and confirm that you in fact have family waiting for you to join them. No foul looks, no comments just Disney magic and the fun goes on.

 

[BostonRob]

So what you mean to say is... because someone chooses to be inconsiderate and shove their way from the back of the line not considering what other people are wondering or having to deal with and because they choose not to ask a CM to grant them access in a safer and easier manner.... that everyone else should "be mature and use good judgment"??

You didn't really mean that, did you?


Why wouldn't you want to start trying to convince people to "be mature and use good judgment" and ask a CM to help them back in the line. Then you have resolved not only the issue with them needed to get back in line, but you haven't affecting anyone else at all.

Because I didn't get involved in this discussion to try to make everything perfect, I got involved to try to prevent imperfect situations from escalating to violence. And to me, the first step toward violence is when somebody physically blocks another person from getting to their families. In some ways, that itself could be considered an assault.

 

[perkinsrose]

Because I didn't get involved in this discussion to try to make everything perfect, I got involved to try to prevent imperfect situations from escalating to violence. And to me, the first step toward violence is when somebody physically blocks another person from getting to their families. In some ways, that itself could be considered an assault.

Are you kidding me?

 

[BostonRob]

Line-cutting editorial

http://alligatorsinahelicopter.blogspot.com/2007/05/line-cutting.html

"When I was a kid, cutting in line was something that was bad. You saw someone slip ahead of you in line, and you pointed. "Hey! No cutting!"

Now it has been institutionalized."

There's somebody on these boards who hates fast-pass because he feels its institutionalized line-cutting. I don't see how either fastpass or this editorial have anything to do with actual line cutting.

Despite how my arguements here have been interpretted, I'm 100% against line cutting.

But fastpass is a tool for time management - it's a way to start logging your time in line without physically standing in line.

And this guy's editorialy isn't really about line cutting, its really just a rant about businesses offering tiered services for people who pay more. I know a lot of people don't like that sort of thing, but it really isn't line cutting. How about the person who gets on the plane first and off the plane first because he paid 5 times as much to sit in first class - would you say he's cutting in line?

Or, even closer to home - how about EMH for people who have payed more to stay onsite - are they cutting line?

 

[MNWDWMANIAC]

Because I didn't get involved in this discussion to try to make everything perfect, I got involved to try to prevent imperfect situations from escalating to violence. And to me, the first step toward violence is when somebody physically blocks another person from getting to their families. In some ways, that itself could be considered an assault.

Actually the if someone pushed past someone in line who was "blocking" the line that person and made the matter physical would be the person consider the assaulter. But none of this should ever become physical so hopefully it wouldn't need to be addressed.

My post doesn't try to make everything perfect. It paints a big pretty picture of the bigger problem. Simply saying "oh well it's not a perfect world so people don't need to try" isn't really preventing an imperfect situation.

It's the nature of how progress works. Start at the beginning and work your way from there. You can't just skip step 2 and then be unhappy with your options at step 4 because you choose not to stay on task and complete things the best you can for your over all goal. Which in this case would be returning to your family in line as quick and safely as possible.

Step one - leave line take care of business
Step two - Ask Cm to let you back in line
Step three - ride ride and smile

Or... risk arguing, tripping on a chain, stepping on a small kid as you push by, bump and spill someones drink in a tight space, risk getting blocked or even possibly missing your family completely while you are fighting the crowds in back.

Common sense would be the best answer here.

 

[perkinsrose]

Wikipedia excerpt, Interesting definitions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_(in_line)

"Covert cutting
In lieu of following the procedure mentioned above, some will cut in line by joining up with family members or friends already standing in line. This action is usually more acceptable, but can still be considered "cutting". Many times, this action is purely out of convenience, when one member of the group "saves a place" for the other members, especially when the wait is lengthy. However, this is not always the case. It is more acceptable when the two people are simply together to conduct one transaction, however if both people plan to conduct one transaction each, it is particularly disrespectful (especially in queues with slow cycle times due to high individual transaction times)."

 

[BostonRob]

Are you kidding me?

Not at all. Most people don't understand that legally, an assualt is merely a threat of physical violence - nobody has to get hurt for an assault to take place. As soon as you lead somebody to believe they're about to be touched in an offensive way, you've assaulted them.
So what are you saying when you make your blockade? I think you're saying that you're physically going to stop somebody from coming through. That doesn't sound very different from assault to me - its a threat of physical contact.

 

[MikeAidanEoinMom]

This is excatly how I feel. My DH works very hard to be able to pay for a Disney vacation. If he goes and waits he deserves to keep his seat. We do teach our DD to wait as well. When she sees others pushing their children in front she gets upset at how unfair it is. I tell her all the time that we do what is right even when other people dont.

Is it right for me to let a child in front of me? Depends. How long have I been waiting? Is the child and parent being sweet and hanging back or trying to push in front? How tired am I? Do I feel like standing? I can choose to give up my seat but it should be something I offer if I feel like it. Not something that if forced upon me by someone that did not wait.

I look around at all these self indulgent children and I worry about what type of adults they will be. Meanwhile my family will continue to teach our children that if something is that important you have to wait. If you don't want to wait than its not that important.

By the end of Kindergarten children know not to cut in front of others. It is sad that adult cannot seem to grasp that concept.

-Becca-

This deserves repeating. We did not have too many problems with line cutting in July(we FP most things or did them early in the morning) But the parades OMG If we waited 45 min - an hour for our spot (with a 16, 5, and 3 yr old and I think the 16 yr old was the worst ) I am not letting anyone think it is thier right to take our spot. And yes I did move over for some and let them in...these were polite people who did not push and shove in.