Line etiquette - holding spots

[FosterA]

Original Poster,
I hear ya! We've never been before either so don't feel dumb. Sometimes this board forgets that not everybody is going on their 18th trip to WDW. I figured it would be wrong to have one person stand in line and then 40 more show up obviously but at one time I THOUGHT it was ok to have like my whole family start standing in the fastpass line while I sent my husband (just one husband, lol) over to the machine thing to get the actual passes and then we let him pop in when he got them. In a nutshell, all but one stand in line. BUT.....Oh boy, did I see how wrong I was about that These people are hard core about their rides and parades. That's really really ok and I get it, really I do, but as a complete newbie I honestly didn't know. I guess I thought of it like a movie theatre. Sometimes hubby dumps me and the kids off at the door and we get tix and start lining up for popcorn and stuff and then he just meets us in there. Not trying to argue at all but I just wanted some of you regulars to remember that some of us are new and are not trying to rip you off, but we just really don't know.

 

[Belle & Ariel]

Original Poster,
I hear ya! We've never been before either so don't feel dumb. Sometimes this board forgets that not everybody is going on their 18th trip to WDW. I figured it would be wrong to have one person stand in line and then 40 more show up obviously but at one time I THOUGHT it was ok to have like my whole family start standing in the fastpass line while I sent my husband (just one husband, lol) over to the machine thing to get the actual passes and then we let him pop in when he got them. In a nutshell, all but one stand in line. BUT.....Oh boy, did I see how wrong I was about that These people are hard core about their rides and parades. That's really really ok and I get it, really I do, but as a complete newbie I honestly didn't know. I guess I thought of it like a movie theatre. Sometimes hubby dumps me and the kids off at the door and we get tix and start lining up for popcorn and stuff and then he just meets us in there. Not trying to argue at all but I just wanted some of you regulars to remember that some of us are new and are not trying to rip you off, but we just really don't know.

There is a rule at TSM that you can do the family line up/ one get FP thing. The cms allow one to join family as long as they are lined up outside the building. You will see parties at the door letting people ahead until their FP runner returns. Usually they have plenty of time to get back while the line is still outside.

I have not heard of Disney stating a policy on this on other rides, though.

We're not all hard core. I just follow the golden rule and hope those visiting do too.
Enjoy your first trip.

 

[Sorahana]

Here's the way I see it.

If your kid or self needs to use the bathroom, fine, one or two people making their way in and out of line I can deal with.

If one person waits in line and their 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 2, 3, 100 friends/family meet up in line later by cutting through everyone else who'd been waiting. Well that I can't handle so well. Depending on the amount of people trying to get through, either my eyes or voice do a lot of talking about it.

That's my thinking.

I agree with this comment. I also feel it's ok if it's 1 or 2 people because nature calls, but if you have a huge group then no way you need to wait in line together. Also if you're already in a group and waiting and 1 or 2 of you leaves the line, fine. But if half the group leaves, that is not cool.

OP, I understand it's your first time going and that in some places holding places in line is possible, but Disney is another place, and much bigger/more people so there's a different view on it from people.

 

[amystevekai&bump]

Well if your line in for Lets say fantasmic & someone leaves to get food/drinks I dont think thats rude at all, as long as its just one person leaving/coming back.

I must admit that I thought it was ok to let my DH take the children off to get a hot dog whilst I waited for fantasmic - but is that a no no too?? (I am worried that my two small boys will be a nightmare queueing too long for fantasmic and thought eating might take their mind off of it!!)

I haven't done it - but thought it would be ok to do in Dec - if not I won't!!!

 

[mariepapa]

Sure, have someone hold your place, while the rest of you go pool hopping and using old, expired refillable mugs.

Then jump in your ECV's and throw your kids in their heelies and head on through the line.

Just so everyone knows, this response was tongue in cheek, I'm just trying to get all the other taboos mentioned on page one.

And, yes, we all know that this is just going to start the debate about holding the line for someone taking their kid to go potty, even though that was never stated in the OP.

Some of these threads are too predictable.

You forgot they have to do this all while taking their kids out of school!!

 

[JimmyV]

I will accept the fact that the general consensus here is that it shouldn't be done. But I must say, the logic is flawed. The point that everyone seems to be making is: "how would you feel if 10 additional people all of a sudden jumped in front of you and put you further behind in the line?" Well...you would be in EXACTLY the same place if those 10 people had been in front of you all along. You are not negatively impacted by their presence, irrespective of whether they appear one minute before you join the line or whether they appear one minute before the line starts to move.

Let's look at an example. You choose to see two consecutive performances of F!. At the first performance, you arrive two hours before the show and get in line. A group of 10 people arrived 5 seconds before you and are immediately in front of you, and they are the first ones in line. You are the 11th person in line. For the second performance you arrive two hours before the show and get in line. A group of 10 people arrived 5 seconds before you but they leave only one "scout" to hold their place and he is immediately in front of you. He is the first person in line. Had the entire group stayed, you would be 11th. But because 9 of them left, it appears that you are now second. However, 15 minutes before the line begins to move, the other 9 reappear and you are now 11th in line, same as you would have been had the other people stayed. Your place in line hasn't changed. Only your perception of it.

Now, for those of you who say: "Yeah, but those 9 people got to have fun while I didn't." That argument only works if you are traveling solo, which most people do not do. Everyone has an equal opportunity to engage in the same behavior. If it were "generally acceptable behavior" and everyone did it, no one would mind. It is only the people who think that this is wrong and refuse to participate who do not benefit. The better solution is for everyone to have a "gentleman's agreement" that standing in lines for hours at a time is an inefficient use of time and that place holding is acceptable. Once everyone came to that consensus, we would all come to realize that place holding is actually far preferable to line waiting, especially when children are involved.

We do this every day. When we go to the movies, one person waits in line and buys all the tickets. Otherwise, the lines would wind themselves out the door of the theater. While one person waits in line for tickets, another person goes to the concession stand and buys all the food. No one has ever complained about this system. In many situations, the entity in charge of the line will hand out placeholder numbers or wristbands and tell everyone to come back at a specific time, lining up in accordance with their number. This would work just fine with F!. People could appear any time up to 2 hours before the show and get a number. Then, 30 minutes before the show, everyone would reappear and line up in order. "What number are you? 57? Oh. OK. I'm 62, so I must be just a little bit behind you." My guess is that no one here would complain about such a situation. But the "scout" placeholder system is EXACTLY the same thing, only it is self-implemented and not "sanctioned by the park" and as a result, people seem to think it is wrong.

I would suggest that we use the power of this board to shift the way we all think. If we ALL could reach the consesus that placeholding is more efficient and more enjoyable, and everyone did it, then no one would feel offended or cheated when it happended.

 

[SaraJayne]

I will accept the fact that the general consensus here is that it shouldn't be done. But I must say, the logic is flawed. The point that everyone seems to be making is: "how would you feel if 10 additional people all of a sudden jumped in front of you and put you further behind in the line?" Well...you would be in EXACTLY the same place if those 10 people had been in front of you all along. You are not negatively impacted by their presence, irrespective of whether they appear one minute before you join the line or whether they appear one minute before the line starts to move.

Let's look at an example. You choose to see two consecutive performances of F!. At the first performance, you arrive two hours before the show and get in line. A group of 10 people arrived 5 seconds before you and are immediately in front of you, and they are the first ones in line. You are the 11th person in line. For the second performance you arrive two hours before the show and get in line. A group of 10 people arrived 5 seconds before you but they leave only one "scout" to hold their place and he is immediately in front of you. He is the first person in line. Had the entire group stayed, you would be 11th. But because 9 of them left, it appears that you are now second. However, 15 minutes before the line begins to move, the other 9 reappear and you are now 11th in line, same as you would have been had the other people stayed. Your place in line hasn't changed. Only your perception of it.

Now, for those of you who say: "Yeah, but those 9 people got to have fun while I didn't." That argument only works if you are traveling solo, which most people do not do. Everyone has an equal opportunity to engage in the same behavior. If it were "generally acceptable behavior" and everyone did it, no one would mind. It is only the people who think that this is wrong and refuse to participate who do not benefit. The better solution is for everyone to have a "gentleman's agreement" that standing in lines for hours at a time is an inefficient use of time and that place holding is acceptable. Once everyone came to that consensus, we would all come to realize that place holding is actually far preferable to line waiting, especially when children are involved.

We do this every day. When we go to the movies, one person waits in line and buys all the tickets. Otherwise, the lines would wind themselves out the door of the theater. While one person waits in line for tickets, another person goes to the concession stand and buys all the food. No one has ever complained about this system. In many situations, the entity in charge of the line will hand out placeholder numbers or wristbands and tell everyone to come back at a specific time, lining up in accordance with their number. This would work just fine with F!. People could appear any time up to 2 hours before the show and get a number. Then, 30 minutes before the show, everyone would reappear and line up in order. "What number are you? 57? Oh. OK. I'm 62, so I must be just a little bit behind you." My guess is that no one here would complain about such a situation. But the "scout" placeholder system is EXACTLY the same thing, only it is self-implemented and not "sanctioned by the park" and as a result, people seem to think it is wrong.

I would suggest that we use the power of this board to shift the way we all think. If we ALL could reach the consesus that placeholding is more efficient and more enjoyable, and everyone did it, then no one would feel offended or cheated when it happended.

Yes, "holding" places in line is rude. If a CM sees a bunch of people cutting in line (because that is what you are doing), they may send you to the back of the line.

And if you do plan on doing it regardless, prepare to be stopped by others in line.

 

[JimmyV]

Yes, "holding" places in line is rude. If a CM sees a bunch of people cutting in line (because that is what you are doing), they may send you to the back of the line.

And if you do plan on doing it regardless, prepare to be stopped by others in line.

See? You are proving my point. First of all, it is rude only because we have declared it to be such. We could just as easily declare it to be efficient and proper. Second, cutting a line, by definition, is when one jumps in line to secure a place that was not theirs to start with. But if the person who is getting in front of you actually got to the line before you did, and is simply re-establishing their prior positon, then it is not cutting. See the second example I cited above. Those people could have been in front of you all along, so you lose nothing.

Look. I am not saying that I do this at F! (I've seen the show once and that was enough for me.) I am simply pointing out the very real psychological and sociological behavioral points that we, as a group, have the power to change things for the better and make everyone's day a little bit better by shifting away from the self-appointed conclusion that something is "rude" when in fact, it is actually more efficient. We don't have to be tethered to the Puritanical notion that we must suffer in order to be rewarded.

 

[Princess Sleepy]

I will accept the fact that the general consensus here is that it shouldn't be done. But I must say, the logic is flawed. The point that everyone seems to be making is: "how would you feel if 10 additional people all of a sudden jumped in front of you and put you further behind in the line?" Well...you would be in EXACTLY the same place if those 10 people had been in front of you all along. You are not negatively impacted by their presence, irrespective of whether they appear one minute before you join the line or whether they appear one minute before the line starts to move.

Let's look at an example. You choose to see two consecutive performances of F!. At the first performance, you arrive two hours before the show and get in line. A group of 10 people arrived 5 seconds before you and are immediately in front of you, and they are the first ones in line. You are the 11th person in line. For the second performance you arrive two hours before the show and get in line. A group of 10 people arrived 5 seconds before you but they leave only one "scout" to hold their place and he is immediately in front of you. He is the first person in line. Had the entire group stayed, you would be 11th. But because 9 of them left, it appears that you are now second. However, 15 minutes before the line begins to move, the other 9 reappear and you are now 11th in line, same as you would have been had the other people stayed. Your place in line hasn't changed. Only your perception of it.

Now, for those of you who say: "Yeah, but those 9 people got to have fun while I didn't." That argument only works if you are traveling solo, which most people do not do. Everyone has an equal opportunity to engage in the same behavior. If it were "generally acceptable behavior" and everyone did it, no one would mind. It is only the people who think that this is wrong and refuse to participate who do not benefit. The better solution is for everyone to have a "gentleman's agreement" that standing in lines for hours at a time is an inefficient use of time and that place holding is acceptable. Once everyone came to that consensus, we would all come to realize that place holding is actually far preferable to line waiting, especially when children are involved.

We do this every day. When we go to the movies, one person waits in line and buys all the tickets. Otherwise, the lines would wind themselves out the door of the theater. While one person waits in line for tickets, another person goes to the concession stand and buys all the food. No one has ever complained about this system. In many situations, the entity in charge of the line will hand out placeholder numbers or wristbands and tell everyone to come back at a specific time, lining up in accordance with their number. This would work just fine with F!. People could appear any time up to 2 hours before the show and get a number. Then, 30 minutes before the show, everyone would reappear and line up in order. "What number are you? 57? Oh. OK. I'm 62, so I must be just a little bit behind you." My guess is that no one here would complain about such a situation. But the "scout" placeholder system is EXACTLY the same thing, only it is self-implemented and not "sanctioned by the park" and as a result, people seem to think it is wrong.

I would suggest that we use the power of this board to shift the way we all think. If we ALL could reach the consesus that placeholding is more efficient and more enjoyable, and everyone did it, then no one would feel offended or cheated when it happended.

They have "place holders" at WDW. They're called Fast Passes. They work on the same logic you just explained. Although you can't use them for something like F!, it is easy to get your food before getting in line and eat while you wait.

 

[Sassagoula Billy]

I can't believe that a) there's a discussion about whether or not this is ethical. Or b) that 18 visits or not, it's even UP for discussion. Imagine you're in line at the grocery store and 10 additional carts pull into line. I'd be pissed. And more to the point, I'd be pissed that I had invested the time in waiting while others hadn't. Bathroom or not.

Call me old fashioned, but that's exactly what I am. Old fashioned.

 

[JimmyV]

They have "place holders" at WDW. They're called Fast Passes. They work on the same logic you just explained. Although you can't use them for something like F!, it is easy to get your food before getting in line and eat while you wait.

Actually, the FastPass is an entirely different animal. It does not get you to a ride at the same time as if you had gotten into the back of the line and waited. In other words, if a standby line is 50 minutes, the FP does not put you on the ride 50 minutes later. It puts you on the ride almost immediately, but at a reserved time. The better analogy would be parent swapping. Parent #2 rides the ride at the same time as if he/she had been in the line the whole time, but that parent didn't actually have to endure the line itself. Instead, parent #2 was out of line attending to a child while parent #1 waited in line. When parent #2 gets to ride the ride, no one seems to mind that it was actually parent #1 who acted as a "scout" and held their place in line.

If you have ever waited in line to by concert tickets and had been given a wristband with a number on it, and told to reassemble at a particular time and place according to your wristband number, you would understand the point. It is common, and no one says that it is rude. It is simply an alternative way of doing something that prevents hoards of people from having to be in one place at one time.

 

[SaraJayne]

See? You are proving my point. First of all, it is rude only because we have declared it to be such. We could just as easily declare it to be efficient and proper. Second, cutting a line, by definition, is when one jumps in line to secure a place that was not theirs to start with. But if the person who is getting in front of you actually got to the line before you did, and is simply re-establishing their prior positon, then it is not cutting. See the second example I cited above. Those people could have been in front of you all along, so you lose nothing.

Look. I am not saying that I do this at F! (I've seen the show once and that was enough for me.) I am simply pointing out the very real psychological and sociological behavioral points that we, as a group, have the power to change things for the better and make everyone's day a little bit better by shifting away from the self-appointed conclusion that something is "rude" when in fact, it is actually more efficient. We don't have to be tethered to the Puritanical notion that we must suffer in order to be rewarded.

I don't care how you try to categorize it or spin it so we all seem out of touch and old fashioned.

It's rude. Period.

If you don't want to stand in line, get a fastpass and use it.

 

[Sassagoula Billy]

I don't care how you try to categorize it or spin it so we all seem out of touch and old fashioned.

It's rude. Period.

If you don't want to stand in line, get a fastpass and use it.

Good lord, I hadn't even read the bit about being tethered to a puritanical notion. That's some good BS if EVER I read it!

 

[JimmyV]

Imagine you're in line at the grocery store and 10 additional carts pull into line. I'd be pissed.

Did those 10 carts belong to people who were already ahead of you, or were they people who were behind you seeking to gain an advantage? That makes all the difference in the world. The supermarket example doesn't really apply because people rarely "hold spots" for other people.

 

[JimmyV]

It's rude. Period.

But only because we have declared it to be. The point here is that we could just as easily "undeclare" it to be. And, yes, it is unwise and rude to go against the consensus and I am not advocating that people do that. I am merely advocating that perhaps the consensus should re-think the point.

 

[Sassagoula Billy]

Did those 10 carts belong to people who were already ahead of you, or were they people who were behind you seeking to gain an advantage? That makes all the difference in the world. The supermarket example doesn't really apply because people rarely "hold spots" for other people.

Your logic just doesn't compute with me. I wish I could understand, but my gut reaction is to resurrect my use of the word "entitlement". And this whole thing stinks of entitlement. People rushing past me, whether part of the same party of shopping carts or individually, is inconsistent with... oh I can't rationalize my point of view because I feel as if i'm arguing with a disgruntled professor.

 

[JimmyV]

Your logic just doesn't compute with me. I wish I could understand, but my gut reaction is to resurrect my use of the word "entitlement".

OK. Let me try it from another angle. Suppose a cast member with a megaphone announced to everyone in line for F! that today they were going to try something different, as long as everyone agreed. She offered that "if everyone in line was in agreement, we will allow one member from each party to remain in line and the rest of each group could go enjoy the park. 20 minutes before the show, everyone would be expected to be back in line right where they were before. By a show of hands, is there anyone here who thinks that this is a bad idea?" If offered this opportunity, there is no logic to refusing the offer and no benefit to be derived from turning this down. Everyone, unanimously, would take the CM up on her offer. Why? Because all of these people, collectively, decided that if everyone was to benefit equally, then it is not "rude" to enjoy this benefit. "Rude" is merely a state of mind that can be overcome if everyone participates equally and no one is getting hurt.

In the same vein, if you were next to last in line and the people behind you who were dead last tapped you on the shoulder and said: "I wouldn't mind if your family got out of line and enjoyed the park as long as one person stayed to save a place in line." If that offer were made, it would not be "rude" to take the person up on the offer because you have his permission. To share the pixie dust, you tap on the shoulder of the person in front of you and make the same offer. That person takes you up on it and taps the person in front of them, and so on and so on until this reaches the very front of the line. Every person has given every other person in front of them permission to engage in the behavior. So you see, rudeness is simply a function of permission. And if everyone in the world gave everyone else in the world permission to do something, then doing that thing ceases to be rude. If every Disney visitor agreed in advance with every other Disney visitor that having one person in line for F! is sufficient, then it wouldn't be rude to do so. So while I am in no way advocating that people act rudely, what I am suggesting here is that if everyone agreed to "virtually" tap each other on the shoulder and say: "I wouldn't mind if you took your family out of line to enjoy the park as long as you extend the same courtesy to me", then we would all improve our day at the park.

(Sorry. I really should have made this point in my first post as I think it is the most simple and noncontroversial way of looking at this. But I didn't think of phrasing it this way until now.)

 

[Sassagoula Billy]

OK. Let me try it from another angle. Suppose a cast member with a megaphone announced to everyone in line for F! that today they were going to try something different, as long as everyone agreed. She offered that "if everyone in line was in agreement, we will allow one member from each party to remain in line and the rest of each group could go enjoy the park. 20 minutes before the show, everyone would be expected to be back in line right where they were before. By a show of hands, is there anyone here who thinks that this is a bad idea?" If offered this opportunity, there is no logic to refusing the offer and no benefit to be derived from turning this down. Everyone, unanimously, would take the CM up on her offer. Why? Because all of these people, collectively, decided that if everyone was to benefit equally, then it is not "rude" to enjoy this benefit. "Rude" is merely a state of mind that can be overcome if everyone participates equally and no one is getting hurt.

In the same vein, if you were next to last in line and the people behind you who were dead last tapped you on the shoulder and said: "I wouldn't mind if your family got out of line and enjoyed the park as long as one person stayed to save a place in line." If that offer were made, it would not be "rude" to take the person up on the offer because you have his permission. To share the pixie dust, you tap on the shoulder of the person in front of you and make the same offer. That person takes you up on it and taps the person in front of them, and so on and so on until this reaches the very front of the line. Every person has given every other person in front of them permission to engage in the behavior. So you see, rudeness is simply a function of permission. And if everyone in the world gave everyone else in the world permission to do something, than doing that thing ceases to be rude.

You keep using Fantasmic as a model. But try applying this thinking to actual rides.

 

[nytimez]

You keep using Fantasmic as a model. But try applying this thinking to actual rides.

I think it actually works as a model for Fantasmic where there is a long non-moving line for a lengthy period... but would never work for a ride with a moving line, ropes, etc., it would just be chaos.

 

[SFRN97]

I was thinking of doing the same for our upcoming trip for Fantasmic. I was hoping to have DH walk around with DD who is 13 months and has been walking for almost 2 months and does not like to sit still. I was hpoing DH could walk around with her and meet up with DS and I at Fantasmic close to the start of the show. Is this also frowned upon so I know for our upcoming trip. Would not like a bunch of people upset with us. Hate tension!!!