Lifeboat Capacity

[DCSWO]

The number of lifeboats on cruise ships is highly regulated by SOLAS, an acronym referring to the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea. Each ship must have lifeboats situated along each side of the ship, with a minimum of 37.5% of the ship’s passenger capacity accommodated on each side.

This means that a minimum of 75% of the full human capacity of the ship is accommodated in lifeboats, with the other 25% permitted to be accommodated in life rafts (usually of the inflatable kind) should the need arise.

Ships will exceed this number in most cases, usually accommodating around 150% of the total number of souls on board. And all of that extra space does not sit idle. Typically, a cruise ship will use its own lifeboats as tender boats when it needs to tender passengers to shore. (If you’re not sure what a “tender” is, check out our tips for first-time cruisers.)

 

[DCSWO]

Not from a Disney ship but inflatable rafts look something like this. All cruise ships have them. They hold around 25-50 people each on average depending on size. They have hydrostatic releases so if a ship were to sink and the rafts were not deployed, at a preset depth of water, they will automatically release from their racks and inflate.

 

[princessmommyx3]

This means that a minimum of 75% of the full human capacity of the ship is accommodated in lifeboats, with the other 25% permitted to be accommodated in life rafts (usually of the inflatable kind) should the need arise.

To me, this is saying that 100% of the full human capacity of the ship is required to have a seat in a boat or raft. So I guess it comes down to the meaning of full human capacity. I take this to mean the total number of beds onboard. But, maybe I am interpreting it wrong and it means the number of beds that DCL is allowed to sell? Thoughts?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

To me, this is saying that 100% of the full human capacity of the ship is required to have a seat in a boat or raft. So I guess it comes down to the meaning of full human capacity. I take this to mean the total number of beds onboard. But, maybe I am interpreting it wrong and it means the number of beds that DCL is allowed to sell? Thoughts?

It means the total number of passengers they can book (maximum capacity). That number is less than the total number of beds onboard.

As noted, a 2 bed room can sleep 2 or 4. They monitor the number of passengers being booked on any given cruise, not the number of beds being used.

 

[DCSWO]

My guess is the total lifeboat & liferaft capacity is based on the largest number of people that would ever sail on the ship but I don’t know if they use beds or some other metric to determine that number. The issue is likely seats in the lifeboats but not total capacity of lifeboats and rafts. They have plenty of capacity to put people in things that float in the event they were needed, but they wouldn’t put paying customers in an inflatable life raft. In most instances, you have to enter a life raft from the water, accommodation ladder, or a very low point on the ship. Not a preferred guest experience, so those would be for the crew who are not assigned as an officer or ”driver” of a lifeboat.

 

[Marc D]

OP question and comments assume that the only way to make sure a cruiseline respects SOLAS is to limit the number of beds to the number of places on the lifeboats. But, as we all know, cruiselines do not manage their capacity or apply the different rules ‘in theory’ but in real time. The rule states they cannot go over capacity for every muster station, so they don’t allow extra guests to be added to them once they are filled, and they go to GTY bookings once they come near to capacity. The booking engine is programmed to manage that legal restriction automatically.

They also apply the PVSA rules so if you book an illegal route, they’ll cancel your trip. There are other ‘behind the scenes’ rules they also apply, for example regarding immigration. They are checked at every port by the local government agencies and must submit ship manifests every time they port.

The rooms on DCL are designed with extra beds, compared to other cruise lines, to allow families to book them. But it certainly does not mean that they will sell all those places if they can. This board is full of testimonies concerning rooms sailing empty and families not being able to add a guest even if there is an empty bed in their room

 

[Dug720]

It’s just like there’s a number of adjoining rooms on a boat and for every cruise the two rooms are not necessarily related to each other so the joining doors never get opened.

Technically in travel speak, the ships have MANY adjoining cabins as that simply means next to, across the hall, or diagonally from each other. They have fewer connecting cabins - which have the internal door between them. DCL generally has a much higher percentage of connecting cabins than other lines, but there are some that do not connect to another. They do however adjoin the cabin they are next to.

 

[scroogie]

OP, you're obviously trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and I think you know it. A lot of your posts seem as if you're implying DCL has some inherent safety flaw, as far as so to say you'll confront an officer about it for an explanation? If DCL didn't have their stateroom capacities set the way they are, you wouldn't be able to have many rooms that sleep as many as they do, and that's not going to attract families - now, you'd probably complain about that too if it was the case, right?

 

[princessmommyx3]

OP question and comments assume that the only way to make sure a cruiseline respects SOLAS is to limit the number of beds to the number of places on the lifeboats. But, as we all know, cruiselines do not manage their capacity or apply the different rules ‘in theory’ but in real time. The rule states they cannot go over capacity for every muster station, so they don’t allow extra guests to be added to them once they are filled, and they go to GTY bookings once they come near to capacity. The booking engine is programmed to manage that legal restriction automatically.

They also apply the PVSA rules so if you book an illegal route, they’ll cancel your trip. There are other ‘behind the scenes’ rules they also apply, for example regarding immigration. They are checked at every port by the local government agencies and must submit ship manifests every time they port.

The rooms on DCL are designed with extra beds, compared to other cruise lines, to allow families to book them. But it certainly does not mean that they will sell all those places if they can. This board is full of testimonies concerning rooms sailing empty and families not being able to add a guest even if there is an empty bed in their room

This is the type of information that I was hoping someone might be able to provide when I started this thread. Thank you for answering in a polite, non-condescending manner. One of the great things about this board is that there are people who know things that I don't and I enjoy learning from them.

My guess is the total lifeboat & liferaft capacity is based on the largest number of people that would ever sail on the ship but I don’t know if they use beds or some other metric to determine that number. The issue is likely seats in the lifeboats but not total capacity of lifeboats and rafts. They have plenty of capacity to put people in things that float in the event they were needed, but they wouldn’t put paying customers in an inflatable life raft. In most instances, you have to enter a life raft from the water, accommodation ladder, or a very low point on the ship. Not a preferred guest experience, so those would be for the crew who are not assigned as an officer or ”driver” of a lifeboat.

Thank you for providing your opinion about how they determine maximum capacity (i.e. the meaning of "full human capacity". It is different than my original assumption and now I can see how that wording likely means something different than I originally thought.

OP, you're obviously trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and I think you know it. A lot of your posts seem as if you're implying DCL has some inherent safety flaw, as far as so to say you'll confront an officer about it for an explanation? If DCL didn't have their stateroom capacities set the way they are, you wouldn't be able to have many rooms that sleep as many as they do, and that's not going to attract families - now, you'd probably complain about that too if it was the case, right?

This is absolutely not what I am saying and why I am always hesitant to post on these boards. I am 100% not implying that DCL is not following the rules - I am honestly wondering if the "muster station being full" theory is just a myth or if someone actually knows the specifics behind the rules/laws and such. And accusing me of wanting to confront an officer is bizarre! Many people, myself included, have discussions with officers while onboard about technical or behind the scenes issues that the general public are not privy to.

Can a mod please close this thread now?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

OP, you're obviously trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and I think you know it. A lot of your posts seem as if you're implying DCL has some inherent safety flaw, as far as so to say you'll confront an officer about it for an explanation? If DCL didn't have their stateroom capacities set the way they are, you wouldn't be able to have many rooms that sleep as many as they do, and that's not going to attract families - now, you'd probably complain about that too if it was the case, right?

And what would that poor captain/crew member be expected to do about it for OP?

 

[princessmommyx3]

And what would that poor captain/crew member be expected to do about it for OP?

Why would it be so wrong of me to approach an officer onboard and say, "You know, I've always been curious about the muster station capacity and lifeboat situation onboard. Could you please share the details of that with me?" I have asked officers questions several times and they always seem eager to discuss things about their ship.

 

[dwg]

Why would it be so wrong of me to approach an officer onboard and say, "You know, I've always been curious about the muster station capacity and lifeboat situation onboard. Could you please share the details of that with me?" I have asked officers questions several times and they always seem eager to discuss things about their ship.

I think you should absolutely ask an officer your question if it something that you are curious enough about and will make you feel more comfortable.

I think one thing to remember is that when Disney or any other cruise line designs their ships I am sure that they are well aware of what percentage of passengers in a room will be one or two people and what percentage will be more up to the design capacity of the room. So when designing the cabins they will design them in a way that allows a "family" booking a cruise to have choices of where they would like their cabin. I would assume if the number of passengers in a family looking for a cabin exceeds the capacity of that cabin or if the group of cabins for a specific muster station can not accommodate the number of passengers in the family, those rooms would not even be an option when booking.

When booking a Disney cruise in the past I have asked about adding my adult son a later date if needed and the answer has always been it depends on the capacity of that lifeboat station assigned to the room regardless of the fact that the ship it self was not fully booked.

 

[Marc D]

Before the thread gets closed, I’ll just add that if you want to read the basic rules, that are all supplemented by technical documentation, you need to seek out the SOLAS convention. It’s the international rules setup first after Titanic sank and that have been updated over the years. It regulates in fine details how all ships are built, engine placement, fire prevention rules, the training of crew, the number of crew, even down to the floor space that must be made available for each passengers near the lifeboat they are assigned to (it’s 0,35 sq. meter btw) or the lights installed in the hallways.

There are thousands of rules. An entire chapter concerns lifeboats, training of crew for abandonment of ship, etc. There is a subsection of chapter III related specifically to passenger ships. With so many rules, it’s a wonder that they can still build cruise ships that are beautiful and not simply floating metal boxes.

It is governed by the IMO (International Maritime Organization), the equivalent for ships to the IATA for planes and airports.

 

[princessmommyx3]

I think you should absolutely ask an officer your question if it something that you are curious enough about and will make you feel more comfortable.

I think one thing to remember is that when Disney or any other cruise line designs their ships I am sure that they are well aware of what percentage of passengers in a room will be one or two people and what percentage will be more up to the design capacity of the room. So when designing the cabins they will design them in a way that allows a "family" booking a cruise to have choices of where they would like their cabin. I would assume if the number of passengers in a family looking for a cabin exceeds the capacity of that cabin or if the group of cabins for a specific muster station can not accommodate the number of passengers in the family, those rooms would not even be an option when booking.

When booking a Disney cruise in the past I have asked about adding my adult son a later date if needed and the answer has always been it depends on the capacity of that lifeboat station assigned to the room regardless of the fact that the ship it self was not fully booked.

Thank you. This whole time I have time just trying to reconcile in my mind why 3 different websites say that a ship must have 125% lifeboat/raft capacity and posters here say that DCL has more beds than spaces on lifeboats/rafts. I have never once thought that DCL was breaking the rules or that the passengers weren't safe, I just realized that it was a complicated situation that I wanted to have more clarity on and now I realize that it likely has to do with me misinterpreting the meaning of "full human capacity". I appreciate you and the other posters who offered me information in a polite way and helped lead me to an answer and am disappointed that I have been accused of "confronting an officer" onboard.

Can a moderator please close this thread now?

 

[lanejudy]

This whole time I have time just trying to reconcile in my mind why 3 different websites say that a ship must have 125% lifeboat/raft capacity and posters here say that DCL has more beds than spaces on lifeboats/rafts.

You were stuck on "lifeboat/raft capacity = beds" which was your interpretation - no illogical but incorrect and apparently not clearly defined by your research. Capacity is not defined as number of beds; DCL has more beds than capacity/lifeboat capacity. Passenger capacity has been determined by some other measure - probably some combination of size of the ship, space in the MDRs, ability to manage sanitary (toilet) needs and fresh drinking water availability, how many lifeboats/liferafts the ship can carry and deploy, amount of storage space for food supply, number of CMs needed to run the ship and passenger operations effectively, etc. It's likely an intricate balance of various factors.

 

[princessmommyx3]

You were stuck on "lifeboat/raft capacity = beds" which was your interpretation, apparently not clearly defined by your research. Capacity is not defined as number of beds; DCL has more beds than capacity/lifeboat capacity. Passenger capacity has been determined by some other measure - probably some combination of size of the ship, space in the MDRs, ability to manage sanitary (toilet) needs and fresh drinking water availability, how many lifeboats/liferafts the ship can carry and deploy, amount of storage space for food supply, number of CMs needed to run the ship and passenger operations effectively, etc. It's likely an intricate balance of various factors.

Yes, you are exactly right! Thank you!!!

 

[princessmommyx3]

You were stuck on "lifeboat/raft capacity = beds" which was your interpretation - no illogical but incorrect and apparently not clearly defined by your research. Capacity is not defined as number of beds; DCL has more beds than capacity/lifeboat capacity. Passenger capacity has been determined by some other measure - probably some combination of size of the ship, space in the MDRs, ability to manage sanitary (toilet) needs and fresh drinking water availability, how many lifeboats/liferafts the ship can carry and deploy, amount of storage space for food supply, number of CMs needed to run the ship and passenger operations effectively, etc. It's likely an intricate balance of various factors.

I apologize if my responses seemed argumentative, that was not my intent. I am an architect, and in my industry, full capacity means how many seats are in a lecture hall, or how many beds are in a hotel, or how many seats are in a stadium, and we must make sure that our designs comply with codes that use these numbers. I wrongly assumed that cruise ships did the same, and now I understand that.

 

[princesscinderella]

I also think it’s 125% lifeboat capacity because in the case of a true emergency not all lifeboats might be able to be reached or used so extra is for that worst case scenario. Look at how bad the Concordia was listed in the water it had to be hard to launch a lifeboat from that one whole side.