Liberty Tree Tavern, bad experience and we didnt even get to the food!

[Disneylover99]

The part that boggles the mind is that in this specific case it was to be expected and shouldn't be a surprise that there was a wait or a fee.

Right. I think everyone would agree that the host/hostess putting the blame on the guest for not realizing there would be delays because of a new menu is crossing the line.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

They are doing this in some cases. It doesn't happen at every location, or even every time in the locations that can do it. I don't know the parameters for it or even the locations. It is needed anytime you aren't seated as soon as you arrive. That way, folks can walk off a bit, not stand there clogging the entry. Some of those are quite small.

I was thinking they did that for us at Cape May Cafe when we were there in August, but I wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly. Our wait then was only 5 minutes, but it was nice to be able to get out of the way of other people and not worry that we'd miss our name being called. It would be nice if they would do this more consistently, especially if they are running 40 minutes behind.

 

[wilkeliza]

No, many restaurants will place a reserved sign on a table for you and not seat other guests at that table if it will make it unavailable for you. For example if you book a table for 8pm, the table might sit empty from 7:15 as they know they cannot seat more guests as you have a reservation. Whereas with Disney's system they might seat someone at a table at 7:15 without worrying about the people booked at 8pm.

I've never been in a restaurant that uses reserved table signs still. Most have a computer system. What they will do is know their average table turn over and how many times they need to seat a table to make profit. If they have a table that sits empty from 7:15pm until 8pm they are losing money on that table. A good restaurant manager will know how long an average dinner takes and then add a little wiggle room (not 45 minutes by any means as that is too long) and then open booking windows that way and also stagger seating by 10-15 minutes to make sure the chef isn't swamped. I have actually been in several restaurants with a situation you describe here in NYC where they will say you can sit but we have a reservation for the table at 8 so you'll have to be done by then. It works if it is a restaurant you are use to and know exactly what you want. Again if a restaurant is letting a table sit empty for 45 minutes their wait staff and bottom line is hurting the entire time.

 

[wilkeliza]

Right, there are reservations that work in such a way they only take them for the number of tables available at a given slot. If they have 10 tables and have reservations for 10 tables at 7:00 they won't take another reservation at 7:30. Maybe they'll take one at 8:30 (I have no idea how much time is usually allocated to a meal). If one of the 7:00 guests leave at 8:15, the table will remain empty until 8:30, or whenever the 8:30 guest arrives. They won't seat someone if it would take away a table for an 8:30 reservation.

8:15 to 8:30 would be fine as that gives bussers time to turn the table and have it reset for the next guest. 7:15 to 8 is way more time then a restaurant would ever hope to pass. The average restaurant meal should be 90 minutes but the nicer the place the longer it takes. Some restaurants can only do 2 seating in one night where others can do 4. The average seems to be 3 with maybe squeezing in a few tables in the 4th slot but not a full restaurant.

 

[jon18uk]

I've never been in a restaurant that uses reserved table signs still. Most have a computer system. What they will do is know their average table turn over and how many times they need to seat a table to make profit. If they have a table that sits empty from 7:15pm until 8pm they are losing money on that table. A good restaurant manager will know how long an average dinner takes and then add a little wiggle room (not 45 minutes by any means as that is too long) and then open booking windows that way and also stagger seating by 10-15 minutes to make sure the chef isn't swamped. I have actually been in several restaurants with a situation you describe here in NYC where they will say you can sit but we have a reservation for the table at 8 so you'll have to be done by then. It works if it is a restaurant you are use to and know exactly what you want. Again if a restaurant is letting a table sit empty for 45 minutes their wait staff and bottom line is hurting the entire time.

Yes my 45 minutes of empty table was a deliberate extreme example just to show the opposite end from Disney's system. But you are right, most places will plan better than that. But I think it can happen, particularly when it is reserrved for a big party, If you have a group of 12 then it might be three 4-tops pushed together, but one of the fours becomes available before the other but a good manager would know they can't seat a four there as they have the group of 12 arriving in half an hour. I'm not sure Disney's system allows for that sort of thinking often enough.

 

[AngiTN]

Yes my 45 minutes of empty table was a deliberate extreme example just to show the opposite end from Disney's system. But you are right, most places will plan better than that. But I think it can happen, particularly when it is reserrved for a big party, If you have a group of 12 then it might be three 4-tops pushed together, but one of the fours becomes available before the other but a good manager would know they can't seat a four there as they have the group of 12 arriving in half an hour. I'm not sure Disney's system allows for that sort of thinking often enough.

I get the impression Disney runs their system more like a Doctor's office runs their appointment system. They allocate X number of guests per time slot, assuming some won't show (even with a no show fee). When they all show, they are behind. The more all show, the more they are behind so the longer in to the day they go, the worse it gets.

 

[wilkeliza]

Yes my 45 minutes of empty table was a deliberate extreme example just to show the opposite end from Disney's system. But you are right, most places will plan better than that. But I think it can happen, particularly when it is reserrved for a big party, If you have a group of 12 then it might be three 4-tops pushed together, but one of the fours becomes available before the other but a good manager would know they can't seat a four there as they have the group of 12 arriving in half an hour. I'm not sure Disney's system allows for that sort of thinking often enough.

I get the impression Disney runs their system more like a Doctor's office runs their appointment system. They allocate X number of guests per time slot, assuming some won't show (even with a no show fee). When they all show, they are behind. The more all show, the more they are behind so the longer in to the day they go, the worse it gets.

I just wanted to be clear I think Disney's system is awful because they book for 100% capacity at all times so if 1 thing goes wrong restaurant management has little room to make it work.

 

[AngiTN]

I just wanted to be clear I think Disney's system is awful because they book for 100% capacity at all times so if 1 thing goes wrong restaurant management has little room to make it work.

Yes, 100% yes.

 

[Lisa F]

I make ADR's and keep them. I wait if the restaurant is running late. However, in the event I was told 40 minutes at LTT I might have asked to cancel. Your waits were shorter, but not all are. The op did not ask to go ahead of the pack, she wanted to cancel because the restaurant could not accomodate in a reasonable time. I think that is fair.

If the restaurant wants to charge that cancellation fee it better be able to seat me in a reasonable time frame. I understand ADR's are not true reservations but if Disney wants to treat them as though they are, and j support that, Disney restaurants need to manage their time better. If the restaurant reserved the right to cancel an ADR and charge the fee if I am late they better be willing to either seat me on time within reason or let that fee go. If I do not choose to wait.

this this this this this.

the ADR fee is to keep people from making ADRs and not showing up for them. If you show up and are told that there is a ridiculous wait (and I think maybe Disney needs to codify this) you should have the option of cancelling your ADR for no penalty. You kept your end of the bargain and showed up on time... they need to keep their end of the bargain and seat you in a reasonable amount of time and not charge you for their lack of organization.

 

[TeresaWen]

And again - it is not just the length of the wait time. it is the location. Not in a lounge enjoying a relaxing cocktail. Not strolling around waiting for a text. Standing around a crowded lobby. This is completely unacceptable.

 

[Disneylover99]

And again - it is not just the length of the wait time. it is the location. Not in a lounge enjoying a relaxing cocktail. Not strolling around waiting for a text. Standing around a crowded lobby. This is completely unacceptable.

So do you avoid booking restaurants where that is the norm?

 

[gorkt]

I do agree that if you have wait more than 30 minutes past your ADR they should waive the fee. I would bet that they probably do this a lot of the time if people are upset. I have found that generally speaking Disney hates saying no if they can possibly avoid it to any reasonable request even if it is not their "policy".

 

[tcufrog]

If they aren't actually reservations they shouldn't have the word in the name.

 

[Nancyg56]

So do you avoid booking restaurants where that is the norm?

You did not ask me, but I feel the same way. I do not avoid booking ADR's unless I am comfortable with how the restaurant typically runs and have allowed time for waits. I only book 'Ohana if I knwo I have no place to be after. I know Coral Reef runs behind too, so I make sure I dont have any reason to be out of there after dinner.

I have never had an unreasonable wait at LTT, but would be unhappy it I was told 40 minutes there. There really is no way that entryway is comfortable to stand....yes.....stand for 40 minutes. There is no where to sit or even lean, really. I doubt I would hang around there.

If they aren't actually reservations they shouldn't have the word in the name.

Most folks know the drill when it comes to ADR's. Teh issue I have is not what they are called, but that at times there is a double standard in terms of how that fee is handled.

 

[Disneylover99]

I have never had an unreasonable wait at LTT, but would be unhappy it I was told 40 minutes there. There really is no way that entryway is comfortable to stand....yes.....stand for 40 minutes. There is no where to sit or even lean, really. I doubt I would hang around there.

I've eaten at LTT twice. Both times I've had longish waits. 20-30 minutes. I'm really not sure what you mean by having to stand in the entryway. There is a big open space with long benches to sit on in the foyer. It certainly doesn't seat everyone if there are a lot of people waiting. But, as families who are sitting are called, it opens up seating for others. It's really not that bad.

 

[TeresaWen]

So do you avoid booking restaurants where that is the norm?

Actually I do. I would never ever wait for a table in a lobby of a restaurant. At home, the restaurants we patronize keep pretty much to their reservation time so no issue. And others that do not accept reservations have a lounge. X

And if for some reason a restaurant could not accommodate my reservation or there was some other issue that caused me to not wish to dine, I would not be charged a fee to leave.

I do not lower my standards just because I am in Disney. There was a time in fact when I could expect more.

 

[TeresaWen]

So do you avoid booking restaurants where that is the norm?

If your question was specific to Disney restaurants the answer is still yes - I do not book at any restaurant where I would possibility need to waste time standing in a holding pen.

I do not mind waiting. A long as there is a lounge available or I am free to leave and return when texted. And as long as it is not a completely unreasonably time frame. 40 minutes is unreasonable.

 

[JohnDaleswife]

I get the impression Disney runs their system more like a Doctor's office runs their appointment system. They allocate X number of guests per time slot, assuming some won't show (even with a no show fee). When they all show, they are behind. The more all show, the more they are behind so the longer in to the day they go, the worse it gets.

Good analysis. Disney doesn't care how long they make the patrons wait, as long as it is more money in their pocket.

 

[maxiesmom]

I just wanted to be clear I think Disney's system is awful because they book for 100% capacity at all times so if 1 thing goes wrong restaurant management has little room to make it work.

If they didn't book to capacity and people saw empty seats they would gripe. There is no way to win. But yeah I think after 30 minutes waiting there should be the option to leave with no penalty.

 

[Disneylover99]

If your question was specific to Disney restaurants the answer is still yes - I do not book at any restaurant where I would possibility need to waste time standing in a holding pen.

I do not mind waiting. A long as there is a lounge available or I am free to leave and return when texted. And as long as it is not a completely unreasonably time frame. 40 minutes is unreasonable.

Yes, I was specifically referring to DW. I know some of the newer restaurants have moved to texts, but off the top of my head, I can't think of many overall in DW. Do you find that limiting?