letting newborns cry it out

[sbell111]

That makes me sad! 8 weeks? Poor baby.

More like happy baby given that she is now falling asleep quickly with little or no fuss.

Newborn baby, assuming I am not busy with a "need to do" task, yes I would pick it up at any hour.

A baby who is a few months old I might make wait a little longer.

Once I feel like they are old enough to CIO, then at bedtime/naptime that's what happens...They CIO.

I completely agree with this. Most people do, I suspect. Certainly it seems like a match to the woman in the blog.

I do. She's over a year and I still would pick up up immediately if crying. Fortunately she has slept through the night since she turned 4 months.

Wow. Our little princess and prince wouldn't hesitate to cry if I did that. They are savvy enough to equate crying with getting attention.

A few? Maybe I read a different blog than you. I thought it said 20 minutes? That's more than a few. For an 8 week old, that is 19 minutes and 59 seconds too long.

You never were more than a second away from picking up your baby? Really?

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

My son did not. And speaking just for our family, I think in the beginning it was about 20 minutes, and we would take turns every 5-7 minutes going in the room to rub his back for a few moments. The 20 minutes only lasted a few days. It gradually got less and less, and we monitored him very closely.

He is/was very close to us. Very loving, and was always independent and happy. I know some people like to pass sweeping judgements that a baby who had to CIO won't feel loved and can't learn to be independent, but that just isn't the case. Maybe if the family isn't particularly loving or attentive the rest of the day then CIO will just add fuel to that fire, but if a parent loves and dotes and cares for their child, 2 weeks of crying it out at bed time (not all night every night) just won't change that.

Same here.

 

[VAfamily1998]

You never were more than a second away from picking up your baby? Really?

It never took me more than a second to decide to pick up my baby and start taking action on it.

Taking the few seconds to walk across the room/down the hall/up the stairs/whatever is totally different from sitting in a chair, listening to a baby cry for 20 minutes, while you do nothing to help.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Many babies vomit after crying too long. I know this because I've had several friends tell me with a HUGE grin and a giggle "Sometimes he'll cry and scream for over an hour before he falls asleep. And it's so sad because when I go in later to check on him.." (after the crying has stopped for several minutes, so they are sure he's given up and is asleep) "there's vomit all over the place because he cried so hard" giggle giggle. "it's so gross, but what else can I do?" Huge smile.

No kidding. I've had multiple people tell me "how sad" it is with HUGE smiles on their faces that they make their baby so hysterical with grief that they vomit. On a regular basis. Vile.

I would never let my child cry for an HOUR without checking on him/her.

MOST of us who used the CIO method wouldn't do that...So, I don't know why "several" of your friends are okay with that happening. I cannot name ONE person I know who would think that is okay.

 

[mjkacmom]

The only part I have a problem with is her attempting to sleep train (and using CIO as part of the training) at 8 weeks old. That's just too young... both IMO & from what I read when trying to get a handle on my daughter's horrible sleeping habits.

We used CIO as part of our sleep training with DD starting at 4 months old. We used the methods described in Dr. Weissbluth's book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Babies. It was a pretty extensive, gradual approach that didn't start out with just putting her in her room, closing the door & not opening the door again until the morning but we DID let her CIO after we got to a certain point in the training. And I have nothing but good things to say about it. She went from being an awful sleeper & generally unhappy baby to having a great routine and being a happy child.

Even though I did CIO with DD, I'm not dead set on doing it with my next babies. I think every baby needs a different approach to parenting and sleep training (if they need "training" at all). If the twins don't need it or will respond better to other methods, then that's what I'll do.

Different strokes for different folks... different approaches for different babies.

Ah, sleep training twins... My oldest slept through the night at 8 weeks (12 hours), my ds was still waking twice a night for bottles at 6 months. It took us 2 nights to Ferberize him, and then he was sleeping for 12 hours straight, plus 2 solid naps. My next dd slept through on her own at 4 months.

Therefore, with my twins, we put dd's crib close to the door, and ds's on the other side, thinking that, because he was a boy, we'd be plucking him up. Turns out he was a great sleeper, his twin not so much. Finally, at 6 months, we realized that we'd have to Ferberize them both (she'd cry, wake him up, they'd both cry). Only took a weekend, and after that, they'd easily sleep through each other's crying, for several years. Turns out ds still needs at least an hour more sleep than dd.

All of mine are great sleepers, even when we travel. Now that they're older, everyone sleeps past 9 on the weekends.

As for the OP, I am a strong CIO supporter, but not at 8 weeks. I don't think one should CIO that young.

 

[sbell111]

It never took me more than a second to decide to pick up my baby and start taking action on it.

Taking the few seconds to walk across the room/down the hall/up the stairs/whatever is totally different from sitting in a chair, listening to a baby cry for 20 minutes, while you do nothing to help.

That's not actually what you posted before. Alesia posted that the mom isn't letting her cry for hours, but just for a few minutes. You then replied that twenty minutes is more than a few and 19 minutes 59 seconds too long. In other words, letting the baby cry for more than a second was too long.

Now you are softening your position to basically saying that as long as you have a plan to comfort the baby then you are jake. That's basically every parent's plan regardless of whether they allow a child to cry for a bit before taking action. It's certainly no different than what my wife and I did/do. I can't tell you how many times we have stood just outside my daughter's door watching the clock, knowing that we would go in and soothe her at the stroke of x minutes if she didn't settle down by herself. Usually, she would settle. Sometimes, she wouldn't and we go in. More often than not, our intrusion soothes her while we are in there, but just results in her having a tantrum when we try to get back out. Those nights are not so fun.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

That's not actually what you posted before. Alesia posted that the mom isn't letting her cry for hours, but just for a few minutes. You then replied that twenty minutes is more than a few and 19 minutes 59 seconds too long. In other words, letting the baby cry for more than a second was too long.

Now you are softening your position to basically saying that as long as you have a plan to comfort the baby then you are jake. That's basically every parent's plan regardless of whether they allow a child to cry for a bit before taking action. It's certainly no different than what my wife and I did/do. I can't tell you how many times we have stood just outside my daughter's door watching the clock, knowing that we would go in and soothe her at the stroke of x minutes if she didn't settle down by herself. Usually, she would settle. Sometimes, she wouldn't and we go in. More often than not, our intrusion soothes her while we are in there, but just results in her having a tantrum when we try to get back out. Those nights are not so fun.

Are you talking to her or making eye contact?

Our Pedi told us to try to avaoid the eye contact and don't talk or make any "soothing" noises because it stimulates the baby's want for you. If that makes any sense. Obviously he was better at explaining it.

 

[Sarah_Rose]

Are you talking to her or making eye contact?

Our Pedi told us to try to avaoid the eye contact and don't talk or make any "soothing" noises because it stimulates the baby's want for you. If that makes any sense. Obviously he was better at explaining it.

Yeah - I was never able to do it. DH had to go in to do the "checks" because he was better at settling down DS without overstimulating him. Even now, DS is 18 months and doesn't cry in his crib (unless something is wrong, obviously), but he will sometimes spend a long time playing with and "chatting with" the toys in his crib. If I go in to try to settle him down to sleep, it makes it worse. If it's just me at home, I'm better off letting him play until he drops off to sleep. If DH goes in, DS is normally asleep within a couple minutes. I guess I'm just too entertaining.

We have another baby due in a few months and I hope she is a "calmer" baby than DS. I really really wanted attachment parenting to work for us, but DS just wasn't that type of baby. If we had carried on with what we were doing, none of us would have slept ever again.

 

[sookie]

So apparently, this is her closet.
http://themomuniform.blogspot.com/2011/03/closet-organizing-ninja.html

this lady seems a little full of herself.
anyway, an 8 week old is too little to be crying it out, especially if breastfeeding.

 

[VAfamily1998]

That's not actually what you posted before. Alesia posted that the mom isn't letting her cry for hours, but just for a few minutes. You then replied that twenty minutes is more than a few and 19 minutes 59 seconds too long. In other words, letting the baby cry for more than a second was too long.

Now you are softening your position to basically saying that as long as you have a plan to comfort the baby then you are jake. That's basically every parent's plan regardless of whether they allow a child to cry for a bit before taking action. It's certainly no different than what my wife and I did/do. I can't tell you how many times we have stood just outside my daughter's door watching the clock, knowing that we would go in and soothe her at the stroke of x minutes if she didn't settle down by herself. Usually, she would settle. Sometimes, she wouldn't and we go in. More often than not, our intrusion soothes her while we are in there, but just results in her having a tantrum when we try to get back out. Those nights are not so fun.

Wha...? No, I am not "jake" I don't even know what that means.

And no, I am not "softening my position".

Baby cries.
Parent gets up and starts walking towards baby and it takes 10 seconds= fine in my opinion.

Baby cries.
Parent stays seated, reading a book, playing online, watching tv, whatever thinkning "oh, I'll just let baby cry it out for 20 minutes"= not fine in my opinion.

If you are walking over to comfort a baby, that is not "letting a baby cry it out".

 

[Dragonfly_34]

I read her blog and there are a few things I don't agree with. The closet situation isn't great, but she said space was limited in their apartment so I can see that being a temporary thing since she did say they were moving soon. However...letting the baby sleep on her stomach and crying it out at 8 weeks? Yikes. IMO, 8 weeks is too early to let a baby CIO. I did do the CIO method with my two older children but they were 8-9 months old. My twins are only 4 months old and the most I do with them is let them fuss for a few minutes if I can't get to them right away.....but it's never for very long.

My twins were born prematurely and spent a month in the NICU. There were babies there who were older than 8 weeks and I know for a fact the nurses never let them CIO. There were times when the assigned nurse was busy with another baby ~ if more than a few minutes had passed, on of the other nurses would step in to comfort the crying baby....whether by giving them a pacifier, picking them up or soothing them in other ways. Also, the longest the NICU nurses would let a baby go between feedings was 3 hours ~ and that was with a mix of formula and fortified breastmilk. As far as sleeping on their stomachs, the NICU nurses ould rotate the positions the babies were in....back, right side, stomach, left side....etc. There was a chart to keep track of which position was next in the rotation. Howeve, the babies were all hooked up with various leads and wires to make sure alarms would sound if they were to stop breathing. During our talks about discharge, they made it very clear not to put them to sleep on their stomachs until they were old enough to roll into that position themselves....and even then it wasn't recommended. Ultimately it's this mother's choice, but I don't think she's making the best choices in some of what she's doing.

 

[sookie]

I read her blog and there are a few things I don't agree with. The closet situation isn't great, but she said space was limited in their apartment so I can see that being a temporary thing since she did say they were moving soon. However...letting the baby sleep on her stomach and crying it out at 8 weeks? Yikes. IMO, 8 weeks is too early to let a baby CIO. I did do the CIO method with my two older children but they were 8-9 months old. My twins are only 4 months old and the most I do with them is let them fuss for a few minutes if I can't get to them right away.....but it's never for very long.

My twins were born prematurely and spent a month in the NICU. There were babies there who were older than 8 weeks and I know for a fact the nurses never let them CIO. There were times when the assigned nurse was busy with another baby ~ if more than a few minutes had passed, on of the other nurses would step in to comfort the crying baby....whether by giving them a pacifier, picking them up or soothing them in other ways. Also, the longest the NICU nurses would let a baby go between feedings was 3 hours ~ and that was with a mix of formula and fortified breastmilk. As far as sleeping on their stomachs, the NICU nurses ould rotate the positions the babies were in....back, right side, stomach, left side....etc. There was a chart to keep track of which position was next in the rotation. Howeve, the babies were all hooked up with various leads and wires to make sure alarms would sound if they were to stop breathing. During our talks about discharge, they made it very clear not to put them to sleep on their stomachs until they were old enough to roll into that position themselves....and even then it wasn't recommended. Ultimately it's this mother's choice, but I don't think she's making the best choices in some of what she's doing.

what is most frustrating is that even if she gets consistent good advice - don't put the baby to sleep on her tummy, make sure she is nursing during the night as baby will digest breast milk more quickly than her formula fed peers - she will ignore it. that's what gets my goat about these parents. they think they are smarter than all the research out there. right now is when that baby is forming attachments and learning to trust. when baby cries and mom responds, that is how baby forms those bonds and trusts that mommy will be there when she is hungry, wet, or overstimulated. but whatever - let your kid suffer - and while your at it, spend more time on that blog instead of taking care of your kid! geezzzz!!

 

[Alesia]

what is most frustrating is that even if she gets consistent good advice - don't put the baby to sleep on her tummy, make sure she is nursing during the night as baby will digest breast milk more quickly than her formula fed peers - she will ignore it. that's what gets my goat about these parents. they think they are smarter than all the research out there. right now is when that baby is forming attachments and learning to trust. when baby cries and mom responds, that is how baby forms those bonds and trusts that mommy will be there when she is hungry, wet, or overstimulated. but whatever - let your kid suffer - and while your at it, spend more time on that blog instead of taking care of your kid! geezzzz!!

You seem to know a lot about this woman's parenting - certainly more than she stated in her bolg. Do you know her personally?

 

[sookie]

You seem to know a lot about this woman's parenting - certainly more than she stated in her bolg. Do you know her personally?

uh, did you read the blog? the whole darn thing is open. she openly says this stuff! then of course, i added my commentary - i especially got upset when she says basically that she just has to trust that jesus will save her baby from sids. *sigh*

 

[NYEmomma]

Ah, sleep training twins... My oldest slept through the night at 8 weeks (12 hours), my ds was still waking twice a night for bottles at 6 months. It took us 2 nights to Ferberize him, and then he was sleeping for 12 hours straight, plus 2 solid naps. My next dd slept through on her own at 4 months.

Therefore, with my twins, we put dd's crib close to the door, and ds's on the other side, thinking that, because he was a boy, we'd be plucking him up. Turns out he was a great sleeper, his twin not so much. Finally, at 6 months, we realized that we'd have to Ferberize them both (she'd cry, wake him up, they'd both cry). Only took a weekend, and after that, they'd easily sleep through each other's crying, for several years. Turns out ds still needs at least an hour more sleep than dd.

All of mine are great sleepers, even when we travel. Now that they're older, everyone sleeps past 9 on the weekends.

As for the OP, I am a strong CIO supporter, but not at 8 weeks. I don't think one should CIO that young.

Yeah, I'm pretty terrified of twin sleeping habits. The babies "got" me the Weissbluth book on sleeping habits of multiples for Christmas, lol, and I read through it but I'm still afraid it's going to just be a grin-and-bear-it kind of thing for a while.

But at least I'm going into it better educated this time. I'm better at looking for sleepy signs, better at encouraging sleep at regular intervals, have more knowledge about typical infant sleep habits, etc. I hope that'll help me start off on the right foot with these two, compared to how things went down with DD.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Yeah, I'm pretty terrified of twin sleeping habits. The babies "got" me the Weissbluth book on sleeping habits of multiples for Christmas, lol, and I read through it but I'm still afraid it's going to just be a grin-and-bear-it kind of thing for a while.

But at least I'm going into it better educated this time. I'm better at looking for sleepy signs, better at encouraging sleep at regular intervals, have more knowledge about typical infant sleep habits, etc. I hope that'll help me start off on the right foot with these two, compared to how things went down with DD.

If it makes you feel any better I never really had a problem with either of my kids.

They would each have little windows of time where they would give me a little trouble, but it never lasted more than a week.

AND they never woke eachother up. DS is a REALLY light sleeper(like me), but if it is his SISTER talking or making noise(beside toy generated noise), he sleeps right through it.

I know it SOUNDS so SCARY! But it really isn't that bad. (Then again, I never had a singleton to compare it to.)

 

[NYEmomma]

what is most frustrating is that even if she gets consistent good advice - don't put the baby to sleep on her tummy, make sure she is nursing during the night as baby will digest breast milk more quickly than her formula fed peers - she will ignore it. that's what gets my goat about these parents. they think they are smarter than all the research out there. right now is when that baby is forming attachments and learning to trust. when baby cries and mom responds, that is how baby forms those bonds and trusts that mommy will be there when she is hungry, wet, or overstimulated. but whatever - let your kid suffer - and while your at it, spend more time on that blog instead of taking care of your kid! geezzzz!!

I read her blog post and she didn't say that she didn't attend to her daughter if she woke up in the middle of the night, though it could have been in another post -- the one in question is the only one that I read. But I wouldn't assume that she's ignoring the baby at night when she is hungry. Perhaps the baby just sleeps through the night once she goes down.

My DD started sleeping through the night at 2 weeks (our issues were with napping and soothing to sleep at bedtime) and I didn't wake her to nurse. Initially I thought I needed to FORCE her to nurse every 2 hours but after spending a good 45 minutes trying to rouse her enough to latch, I gave up and said she'll eat when she's hungry. And she ended up being 18lb by 4 months, exclusively breastfed.

Like I said, the woman could be ignoring the baby at night when she wakes up hungry and letting her cry then... I just didn't read it in that specific post.

 

[NYEmomma]

If it makes you feel any better I never really had a problem with either of my kids.

They would each have little windows of time where they would give me a little trouble, but it never lasted more than a week.

AND they never woke eachother up. DS is a REALLY light sleeper(like me), but if it is his SISTER talking or making noise(beside toy generated noise), he sleeps right through it.

I know it SOUNDS so SCARY! But it really isn't that bad. (Then again, I never had a singleton to compare it to.)

Thanks for the encouragement!

I figured DD's infancy was abject misery thanks to all her problems & my lac of knowledge about what she needed in terms of sleep that I'm due for a laid back, happy baby.... or 2.

We didn't take her out in public until she was 6 months old because of how horrible everything was and I remember the 2nd time we went out (because the first ended in disaster, lol) we were near a couple with a newborn in an infant carrier... and they were sitting there eating their dinner in peace with the baby happily sitting next to them at the table. DH & I just looked at each other like we'd seen a ghost -- babies like that actually EXISTED?? Lol. I want two of those!

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Thanks for the encouragement!

I figured DD's infancy was abject misery thanks to all her problems & my lac of knowledge about what she needed in terms of sleep that I'm due for a laid back, happy baby.... or 2.

We didn't take her out in public until she was 6 months old because of how horrible everything was and I remember the 2nd time we went out (because the first ended in disaster, lol) we were near a couple with a newborn in an infant carrier... and they were sitting there eating their dinner in peace with the baby happily sitting next to them at the table. DH & I just looked at each other like we'd seen a ghost -- babies like that actually EXISTED?? Lol. I want two of those!

Mine were good babies, but it wasn't all roses once they hit about 2.

THEN the sleep issues started. They still didn't last long though, and it's really only been DS.

DD is 4 going on 17, but she SURE likes to SLEEP.

DS's internal clock is set to wake up between 5:30am and 6am EVERY...SINGLE...DAY....No matter what time he goes to bed, or how wore out he was the day before. I've finally just accepted it.

 

[horseshowmom]

I let my kids "cry it out"...BUT I would go in every 5 to 10 mintues and reassure them that they weren't abandonded. That was how my pedi told me to do it. No talking or eye contact when you go in.You just rub their back or whatever to let them know you're there and then leave again.

When my daughter was born (about 100 years ago! ), she would sleep a hour and play two hours around the clock. After a couple of weeks, I was exhausted. My husband told me that she needed to cry it out if nothing was wrong (he came from a large family with lots of kids, I didn't). Of course, I thought he was a jerk.

Finally, we agreed to talk to the pediatrician and do what she said. Note, that I said "she". I had no doubt that she was going to agree with me. I was wrong. She gave pretty much the same advice as SS detailed above.

I forced myself to do it (probably cried as much as my daughter did and was VERY annoyed with my husband! ) and in a couple of weeks she was actually sleeping through the night except for waking up for her bottle (yeah, I'm really bad, I didn't BF either ). She went to bed at about 9 p.m. and got up at about 9 a.m. It was wonderful!

I just went back and re-read the whole blog entry. She's harmless IMO. She dotes on her babies. Evening bed routines, lavender night time lotion, music. The fan is white noise for the baby, not the parents. At the end of the entry she even talk about how the cry it out method didn't work for her son so they stopped it.

I'm not really seeing how mom is such a monster.

Have to agree with this...

Eight weeks old is too young to let a child "cry it out." And I'm against the cry it out method, in general.

Someone on Huffington Post wrote this synopsis of the article...

In her recent piece for Psychology Today, Darcia Narvaez, an associate professor of psychology at Notre Dame, writes that when babies are stressed, their bodies release cortisol into their systems -- a toxic hormone that kills brain cells. Considering their brains are only 25 percent developed when they're born full-term and grow rapidly in their first year, killing off baby brain cells is a huge no bueno. Narvaez notes that studies out of Harvard, Yale, Baylor and other institutions show that said killing off of baby brain cells can lead to the higher probability of ADHD, poor academic performance and anti-social tendencies, and that human babies are hardwired for hands-on comfort and care.

"Babies are built to expect the equivalent of an 'external womb' after birth... being held constantly, breastfed on demand, needs met quickly," Narvaez writes. "These practices are known to facilitate good brain and body development. When babies display discomfort, it signals that a need is not getting met, a need of their rapidly growing systems."

The researchers are probably glad they didn't interview me or study my daughter. We don't fit the mold. She's a recently graduated pharmacist - with honors - received the highest academic award her university offered. OTOH, who knows what she might have been if I hadn't let her cry it out...

He is/was very close to us. Very loving, and was always independent and happy. I know some people like to pass sweeping judgements that a baby who had to CIO won't feel loved and can't learn to be independent, but that just isn't the case. Maybe if the family isn't particularly loving or attentive the rest of the day then CIO will just add fuel to that fire, but if a parent loves and dotes and cares for their child, 2 weeks of crying it out at bed time (not all night every night) just won't change that.

Of course not...

I talk to my daughter daily. She calls me when she gets off work and often texts several times a day. It's unheard of for her to go more than a day or so without hearing from her. Very independent and happy (as MM said) - always handled things herself and was the one in college that others went to for direction. In fact, her husband likes to say that she's very independent (what he actually means is bullheaded though! ).