Letter to my son's Asst. Principal re: paddling UPDATED Pg 14!

[LuvCuteBoys]

A spanking doesn't equal a beating.

It does if you don't believe in it and think that it's abuse. And there's a difference between a parent swatting a kid on the butt and a brute of a principal threatening to paddle a child.

Respect is given where respect is due and I don't have an ounce of it for this loser. Being terrified of someone doesn't equal respect.

Children are supposed to feel safe in school.

 

[Disney Ella]

I think it's very healthy to have a "respect" for authority figures. As adults we have a "fear/ respect" for our bosses. My children are very respectful of their teachers and principals & do have a fear of being in trouble. They are not afraid of these people but respectful.

I certainly don't fear my boss and I wouldn't want to work anywhere where my supervisor tried to intimidate me. There is a big difference between knowing that your actions have consequences and being afraid that someone will hurt you if you do something they consider wrong.

My kids are well-behaved in school and respectful toward teachers. They have never been hit at home. It seemed like a big contradiction to spend the day saying, "Now, don't hit your sister. Hitting someone because you have a problem with them is wrong," and then turning around and hitting them if they did something I didn't like. With all of the classes that teachers and administrator's take in child behavior and psychology in college, I certainly expect them to be able to come up with better discipline solutions than hitting.

 

[ktink]

I certainly don't fear my boss and I wouldn't want to work anywhere where my supervisor tried to intimidate me. There is a big difference between knowing that your actions have consequences and being afraid that someone will hurt you if you do something they consider wrong.

My kids are well-behaved in school and respectful toward teachers. They have never been hit at home. It seemed like a big contradiction to spend the day saying, "Now, don't hit your sister. Hitting someone because you have a problem with them is wrong," and then turning around and hitting them if they did something I didn't like. With all of the classes that teachers and administrator's take in child behavior and psychology in college, I certainly expect them to be able to come up with better discipline solutions than hitting.

Not sure what your deal is but never once did I say that I agree w/ paddling. Also I don't fear my boss but respect this person as an authority figure. It's my belief that respecting a person in an authority figure role also comes with the a healthy balance of "fear". Take parenting for example, children should know that their actions can result in punishment. Putting a child in timeout is fearful to the child because they know they are "in trouble" and being punished for their actions.

I don't walk around being intimidated or scared in a corner at my job, not the case at all. I wouldn't take well to someone trying to intimidate me as I'm not easily intimidated. My children aren't afraid of their teachers or other authority figures. But they do respect these people. Respect not fear is what I was speaking of. My 13 & 8 year old don't have the problem understanding that, maybe I have now explained so that you can understand as they do.

 

[RadioNate]

It does if you don't believe in it and think that it's abuse. And there's a difference between a parent swatting a kid on the butt and a brute of a principal threatening to paddle a child.

Respect is given where respect is due and I don't have an ounce of it for this loser. Being terrified of someone doesn't equal respect.

Children are supposed to feel safe in school.

When you've know children who are truly abused by their parents. Beaten, scarred, their bones broken by these monsters. Normal spanking doesn't compare.

 

[Disney Ella]

Not sure what your deal is but never once did I say that I agree w/ paddling. Also I don't fear my boss but respect this person as an authority figure. It's my belief that respecting a person in an authority figure role also comes with the a healthy balance of "fear". Take parenting for example, children should know that their actions can result in punishment. Putting a child in timeout is fearful to the child because they know they are "in trouble" and being punished for their actions.

I don't walk around being intimidated or scared in a corner at my job, not the case at all. I wouldn't take well to someone trying to intimidate me as I'm not easily intimidated. My children aren't afraid of their teachers or other authority figures. But they do respect these people. Respect not fear is what I was speaking of. My 13 & 8 year old don't have the problem understanding that, maybe I have now explained so that you can understand as they do.

I did understand what you said. You clearly said "respect/fear" in your original post. Respect means to "hold in high regard." I can't imagine holding someone in high regard if you fear them. They are very different things.

 

[RadioNate]

Not sure what your deal is but never once did I say that I agree w/ paddling. Also I don't fear my boss but respect this person as an authority figure. It's my belief that respecting a person in an authority figure role also comes with the a healthy balance of "fear". Take parenting for example, children should know that their actions can result in punishment. Putting a child in timeout is fearful to the child because they know they are "in trouble" and being punished for their actions.

I don't walk around being intimidated or scared in a corner at my job, not the case at all. I wouldn't take well to someone trying to intimidate me as I'm not easily intimidated. My children aren't afraid of their teachers or other authority figures. But they do respect these people. Respect not fear is what I was speaking of. My 13 & 8 year old don't have the problem understanding that, maybe I have now explained so that you can understand as they do.

I get it. You don't screw up and forgo doing your job because you are afraid to get fired. While you aren't afraid of your boss as a person. You are afraid of being without a job therefor there is a bit of fear that goes with the person in a position to fire you.

Being afraid of punishment, whether is be physical or whatever, doesn't necessarily mean you are afraid of the person. Even if that person is the one to carry out the punishment.

I've had bosses I didn't respect. They were jerks and idiots, I certainly didn't hold them 'in high regard' but they had the power to fire me so I did my job.

 

[disneymarie]

Life is such a complicated issue, nothing much is in the area of black and white. There is a huge gray area.

For example, what if this child had downs syndrome.....would we punish differently. As parents would we understand the motive of the little guy more as playing, playing perhaps as his family does with him and he feels great love from it.

I mention the Down's as this precious gift of life was something like 1lb 4 oz when he was born. While very bright to be in a Kindergarten, perhaps SOCIALLY he is going through life on a bit more of a different spectrum.

We certainly would want to nip it in the bud as an inappropriate social behavior. But, if this child was or was not Down's or other diagx would we understand that, and even though hugely upset our little girl was touched,

He had certainly been emotional treated with the trip to the principal:
What was done was done, now regroup, reaccess and see where we could have done a better job as a school...

1. If the teacher interceeded and instructed it is not a good touch to other children outside his home.
2. Contacted the mother and in a team with guidance, assist Principal and teacher, discussed the situation.
3. A sensitive child could spend every day for a very long time trumatized by going to school/being made fun of.

My gut is telling me when we have not only a premmie, but one that was in the hands of Angels or higher authority, is a special little man.
Being that proffoundly premature, while not having cerebal palsey, blindness, etc is a miracal.

There still could, and I could ccept some type of non typical social behavior diagx.
Disciplin has to be a reaction not to humilate a child, it has to be preventive for the future.

I really have to say I am cutting Paul "meaning gift of God" a lot of slack and putting it on the adults he is entrusted with to figure out what is going on and how to both prevent, and do it on an age appropriate social level.

This principal, has something lacking in such an extreme manner to have delt with it like this, and the teacher should learn from it also...

Kids are not made from cookie cutters. We can't force their behavior into one of the molds. Too many factors contribute to what made this 6 year old so loving.

 

[monsterkitty]

The OP knows what her son did was wrong. While it is something that many 6 y/o boys do, his mom knows that he was wrong and she is trying to be proactive so that it doesn't happen again. Yes, he may have had a few other issues with behavior in class, but these are nothing out of the ordinary for children. Heck, I got in trouble in first grade for playing in the water and I am a girl! Does this mean that I had underlying issues as well?

You really think being afraid of your teachers is a good thing? I think it's a terrible thing! I had a 4th grade teacher with anger management issues who used a 1-inch thick paddle often - once when a boy was throwing a pencil in the air and it stuck in the ceiling. I was terrified of her and I know I didn't do as well in math as I could have as I was always afraid I would do something that would set off this woman.

Learning and fear don't go well together and I think it's a shame that any children should have to live in fear of physical abuse if someone doesn't like their behavior at school.

When I was in third grade another little girl threw a pencil at me and it struck me in the eye. The pencil was removed in the ER. She was suspended for a few days, only to return and repeat the pencil-throwing habit. This time, however, the boy who had the pencil thrown at his eye lost the vision in that eye. Obviously she had issues that neither a paddling, suspension, or the expulsion would have changed.

Many of our students today have no fear of any punishment they receive in school. Granted, I teach in an area that is well known for its gang activity. Many of the kids just don't care that they are suspened (vacation!), given detention (which they will not show up for), or even expelled (really long vacation!). There is no fear in these kids for whatever reason. They have little to no respect for those in authority, such as teachers, administrators, or sadly even their own parents. They know no boundries because they don't care about what consequences they may receive. Paddling isn't going to change that. But neither are other forms of discipline. They also know that mom or dad is going to come up and "yell" at the school because the child is going to get punished. There is always an excuse for the behavior so the consequence means nothing other than the child is being picked on by the school.

I'm lucky in that I am respected by the kids and they do know that if they get in trouble in another class, in the halls, or at lunch I am going to be very disappointed in them. So does that mean they fear me?

What consequences should kids have?

 

[JerseyJanice]

When I was in third grade another little girl threw a pencil at me and it struck me in the eye. The pencil was removed in the ER. She was suspended for a few days, only to return and repeat the pencil-throwing habit. This time, however, the boy who had the pencil thrown at his eye lost the vision in that eye. Obviously she had issues that neither a paddling, suspension, or the expulsion would have changed.

The pencils at your school must have been like rockets! Either that or the little girl should have become an NFL quarterback.

Many of our students today have no fear of any punishment they receive in school. Granted, I teach in an area that is well known for its gang activity. Many of the kids just don't care that they are suspened (vacation!), given detention (which they will not show up for), or even expelled (really long vacation!). There is no fear in these kids for whatever reason. They have little to no respect for those in authority, such as teachers, administrators, or sadly even their own parents. They know no boundries because they don't care about what consequences they may receive. Paddling isn't going to change that. But neither are other forms of discipline. They also know that mom or dad is going to come up and "yell" at the school because the child is going to get punished. There is always an excuse for the behavior so the consequence means nothing other than the child is being picked on by the school.

I'm lucky in that I am respected by the kids and they do know that if they get in trouble in another class, in the halls, or at lunch I am going to be very disappointed in them. So does that mean they fear me?

What consequences should kids have?

Around here, there are programs for alternatives to school suspension. The kids go there instead of their usual school and are "tortured" with boring lectures all day. It does seem to help if for no other reason than kids hate being away from their regular social circle.

Unfortunately, there will always be some incorrigible kids. I don't believe the threat of being paddled can change that. Even if I believed in physically punishing children (and I don't), I wouldn't want the school doing it, and frankly, I would scorch the Earth if any adult struck my child with a paddle.

 

[monsterkitty]

The pencils at your school must have been like rockets! Either that or the little girl should have become an NFL quarterback.



Around here, there are programs for alternatives to school suspension. The kids go there instead of their usual school and are "tortured" with boring lectures all day. It does seem to help if for no other reason than kids hate being away from their regular social circle.

Unfortunately, there will always be some incorrigible kids. I don't believe the threat of being paddled can change that. Even if I believed in physically punishing children (and I don't), I wouldn't want the school doing it, and frankly, I would scorch the Earth if any adult struck my child with a paddle.

The girl did know how to throw! While the pencil stuck in the corner of my eye, it didn't with the boy. It just hit in the right spot to cause significant damage. I did read about the girl in the paper about 10 years ago. The article wasn't a good one.

We have alternative schools as well. They just don't mean much to our kids. Let's be honest, some of our kids are just putting in seat time until they are old enough to drop out. They don't see the need for a good education and they could careless about rules.

Physical punishment is not the answer to any discipline problem. While it is legal in my state, none of the school boards allow physical punishment. I'm just not so sure what the answer is any more.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

The girl did know how to throw! While the pencil stuck in the corner of my eye, it didn't with the boy. It just hit in the right spot to cause significant damage. I did read about the girl in the paper about 10 years ago. The article wasn't a good one.

We have alternative schools as well. They just don't mean much to our kids. Let's be honest, some of our kids are just putting in seat time until they are old enough to drop out. They don't see the need for a good education and they could careless about rules.

Physical punishment is not the answer to any discipline problem. While it is legal in my state, none of the school boards allow physical punishment. I'm just not so sure what the answer is any more.

If the parents are not on your side there is no punishment that will ever be effective, it's pretty hopeless.
Expulsion is effective. It doesn't help that student but it does remove them from the other kids and allows their learning to continue without the disruption.
"No child left behind" are just words.

 

[JerseyJanice]

The girl did know how to throw! While the pencil stuck in the corner of my eye, it didn't with the boy. It just hit in the right spot to cause significant damage. I did read about the girl in the paper about 10 years ago. The article wasn't a good one.

Too bad she didn't channel that throwing ability into something productive, like sports. She must have some powerful arm to be able to lodge a pencil into someone's eye from across a room. And she did it not once, but twice. Once I'd say was a freak accident; twice seems like a Herculean feat.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

When you've know children who are truly abused by their parents. Beaten, scarred, their bones broken by these monsters. Normal spanking doesn't compare.

The fact that they're different doesn't make either one okay. This isn't a discussion on whether parents should be allowed to spank their children.

That this is legal (and OKAY with people) has had my stomach in knots in all day. That poor child I think I'm going to write some letters because no child should have to live in fear of the people who are supposed to be protecting them and keeping them safe.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Well if the Principal thinks it is okay to paddle (and legal in that state) because the child did something wrong then he should have no problem with me paddling him because there is zero tolerance in schools and hitting is not allowed.
Kind of stupid isn't it?

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Good punishment takes into account the individual child. I don't know how it works at other schools, but at ours we have what is called a Student Action Team and anytimes we have a "chronic kiddo" we meet and go over what has worked and what hasn't. We did that with a student in my room. We had to get a little bit creative, but the end result has been I haven't had an aggressive incident in over a week from this kid! All without the use of corporal punishment.

If schools adopt a one size fits all approach, of course there will be kids who won't respond. We can't always help every single kid, but we certainly have much better success after we implement individual plans for thsoe who need it.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

I know that we're all talking about this and discussing, which is good... but let's not forget that the child in question is a six-year-old and he didn't purposely do something hurtful. The whole thing makes me feel so sad.

 

[ktink]

I get it. You don't screw up and forgo doing your job because you are afraid to get fired. While you aren't afraid of your boss as a person. You are afraid of being without a job therefor there is a bit of fear that goes with the person in a position to fire you.

Being afraid of punishment, whether is be physical or whatever, doesn't necessarily mean you are afraid of the person. Even if that person is the one to carry out the punishment.

I've had bosses I didn't respect. They were jerks and idiots, I certainly didn't hold them 'in high regard' but they had the power to fire me so I did my job.

exactly

 

[luvsJack]

Why does everyone assume that children who are paddled at school or spanked at home live in fear? Its like you think they sit around cringing thinking they are going to be beaten at any chance. That's just not the way it is.


6 years old is not a baby. I taught 4 year olds for years. One of the first lessons we learned and one we went over on a constant basis was "keep your hands to yourself". This was something they knew when they started Kindergarten. I am sorry, but 6 is plenty old enough to know not to do this.

 

[texaslover]

As a

teacher here is my short response.

Admins and teachers walk a find line. In a nut shell: If we don't discipline one we don't protect another. Think about it. Many parents would have a problem with a boy putting his lips on their daughter's bare skin under clothes whether he "meant" anything by it or not.

I teach 3rd grade and spend lots of time on discipline that takes away from learning. Kinder teachers take so much more than me. I get emails every day from parents that say 1) My kid was called a name why didn't you stop it 2) My kid was touched why didn't you stop it 3) My kid is overwhelmed/bored/sad/upset/lazy why don't you fix it

Kinder teachers have to teach and be parents. How much could anyone teach if they are constantly teaching hands to ourselves, potty behavior, walking in line, cutting with scissors, not destroying property, proper penciland glue behavior, and "nice" words. (not cussing, putting others down, or otherwise hurting others feelings)

Teachers and admins struggle every day and we really just want to love the kids and TEACH! Discipline and self control have to be present for kids to reach their true potential and for us to be able to help them be all they can be.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Why does everyone assume that children who are paddled at school or spanked at home live in fear? Its like you think they sit around cringing thinking they are going to be beaten at any chance. That's just not the way it is.


6 years old is not a baby. I taught 4 year olds for years. One of the first lessons we learned and one we went over on a constant basis was "keep your hands to yourself". This was something they knew when they started Kindergarten. I am sorry, but 6 is plenty old enough to know not to do this.

I agree that 6 is plenty old enough to know that but if they are taught to keep their hands to themself then what are you (a general you) teaching them when they don't and you padddle them? Seems very contradictory.