Letter to my son's Asst. Principal re: paddling UPDATED Pg 14!

[GEM]

Do you know the laws of your state regarding parental permission? I would think that there would be a requirement for the school to follow the instructions of parents who do not allow it. There may be a form that you must fill out and have on record so an email may not be enough. I hope that at least parents have some rights in these types of situations.

Nope....nothing like that. Here's what I found as far as state law on the subject goes....


(b) (1) A school district that authorizes use of corporal punishment in its discipline policy shall include provisions for administration of the punishment, including that it be administered only for cause, be reasonable, follow warnings that the misbehavior will not be tolerated, and be administered by a teacher or a school administrator and only in the presence of a school administrator or his designee, who shall be a teacher or administrator employed by the school district.

No parental permission needed at all.

 

[SpecialK]

Thanks everyone for all the comments. They were very interesting and helpful.

Here's my question, though...if paddling is allowed by our school district and parental permission is not required (which is the case here), does it really matter if I expressly say, "I forbid you to paddle my child"? I mean, do they have to listen to that? Everything I've looked up seems to indicate that they don't have to pay any attention to that at all.

I'm just wondering because so many have said to say "my child is not to be paddled" or something similar, but I'm wondering if there's any reason they would have to follow my wishes in that regard. It doesn't seem like there is, which is very upsetting.

I've spent the last six years teaching my child that it is never ok for anyone to hurt someone....to hit or kick, etc...and here is a grown school official telling him just the opposite.

I think it would make a difference. I would send a written note stating your position and ask that it be placed in his file. Administrators will not go looking for trouble with parents.

I thought your letter was a good one. I would not, however, include the line about supporting any and all other disciplinary measures without question. Don't deal in absolutes.

 

[Jennasis]

What is this? Nineteen-diggety-two? Who still "paddles" kids?? Much less SIX YEAR OLDS? For razzing another kid's belly?

IF a-paddlin' was going to be used, save it for something worth paddlin' over.

Anyhoo. OP, your letter sounds fine. Good luck with this.

 

[AshleyW]

Okay, I am apparantly on the opposite side of the coin as most of you.

My dad was paddled by the nuns. And, he turned out just fine. Not only did he turn out just fine, he raised two of the most well-mannered, polite young women you will ever meet. Sure, we may have behaved out of fear half the time, but I guarantee you we never caused any trouble in school, and our parents were NEVER called because of disciplinary issues.

And, I feel we are better young women because of it. Sometimes a little healthy fear is the best thing you can give a child.

Now, I would not want my kids taken out back behind the school and whipped bare bottom. But, if my child did something so bad that it warranted discipline, I would have NO problem with the teacher smacking my kid's wrist with a ruler. I also would not have a problem with him or her being verbally admonished in front of the class. Whatever it takes...

I actually agree with you, minus the part about being in front of the class. My DFi grew up in Mississippi and got paddled a couple times in school, and honestly, from the stories he told me - he deserved it, and he'll admit that he deserved it.

On the other hand, it's everyone's right not to agree with that. If it was me, and I lived in a school district that practiced paddling, I would just send a letter at the beginning of each school year explaining that I would prefer alternate forms of discipline for my children.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

Okay, I am apparantly on the opposite side of the coin as most of you.

My dad was paddled by the nuns. And, he turned out just fine. Not only did he turn out just fine, he raised two of the most well-mannered, polite young women you will ever meet. Sure, we may have behaved out of fear half the time, but I guarantee you we never caused any trouble in school, and our parents were NEVER called because of disciplinary issues.

And, I feel we are better young women because of it. Sometimes a little healthy fear is the best thing you can give a child.

Now, I would not want my kids taken out back behind the school and whipped bare bottom. But, if my child did something so bad that it warranted discipline, I would have NO problem with the teacher smacking my kid's wrist with a ruler. I also would not have a problem with him or her being verbally admonished in front of the class. Whatever it takes...

How did your dad's getting smacked by nuns make you and your sister better women? You lost me on that.

My DH was hit with a closed fist in the back of the head by a priest while seated in his classroom . He says he was giggling at something. He blacked out, and nothing was done because no one reported anything back then. This was many years ago.

The OP's son didn't do anything that warranted being smacked with a weapon. Playing the way he did at that age was forgetfulness on his part. Nothing malicious or intended. I'd hate to see what they would about a more serious infraction?

Corporal punishment is something best left at home. At least up to the parent's discretion at school. Then people who feel as you do can agree to it, and those who don't feel that way can opt out. My DS has a super sensitivity to bruising. If he just bumps himself lightly, he will bruise. So a swat by someone who knows nothing about this could cause a huge bruise on him. Then we would definitely be seeing an attorney.

 

[Tinijocaro]

I can NOT believe that there are still schools that will HIT children in this country. How can that be? As soon as I read this post, I immediately thought it must be a southern state. Why is that? I understand that touching is not allowed, but young kids do not necessarily understand this, especially if their is no malicious intent involved. Just silly playing around. It's sad.

 

[4nana]

I would be livid !!! Paddling would never fly in our area . I have been paddled in Catholic school and I have also paddled, but it is not up to our school's adm. to displine a 6yo by threatening to spank as punishment . There is 0 tolerance here, so even if playing hitting, a student is suspended. The Asst. Principal would have been wise to immediately contact you and the girl's parents, and had a meeting concerning your DS's play ground actions and consequences. Altho I feel sorry for the little girl involved also, I can't iimagne how frightened your little boy must have been nor how upset you feel.

 

[luvmy3]

The problem with having no opt out is that for some parents corporal punishment really constitutes abuse, not discipline. We can't force a child to say the pledge if saying "under God" goes against their beliefs, but we can force a child to be abused (according to their parents beliefs), I just don't get it

 

[WebmasterAlex]

I would call, not send a letter- why? to assess who I was dealing with. Some people would respect that letter and some would make sure your son did get paddled just to show how powerful they were. Unless you already know this guy it could have an opposite reaction if he's power tripping.
If you call you can take it slowly and figure him out

 

[sahm1000]

Wow! No parental permission needed - that is crazy!

As a former teacher (I now stay home with my three girls 6, 4, and 1) I have never felt the need for corporal punishment. I am a relatively small person (at least I was before my girls anyway ) and not physically intimidating in any way. I worked in "tougher" school districts (100% free lunch, 99% minority, etc, etc.) and never had a problem. My students were middle schoolers and ranged from ages 11-15 and most were bigger than me. Did I ever want to knock some sense into a student - yes - but it was a passing thought! My students knew that I cared about them and would take care of them and because of that respected me and usually acted appropriate. There were some students who I couldn't reach and unfortunately neither could anyone else. And truthfully I think paddling these students would have made the situation MUCH worse. I truly felt that more than likely these students were psychologically harmed by someone and the last thing they needed was a paddling. On that same note, they also did not belong in my classroom disrupting others. They truly needed a special setting. So I guess I figure that if I could control my students without paddling as a threat I absolutely cannot figure why anyone would paddle a 6 year old! If I just look at my own 6 year old daughter cross eyed, she will start to cry! No paddling or spanking threat necessary! There are many better and more appropriate ways of dealing with these situations, especially silly ones like this. Do your administrators not have anything else to do ????

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I work in a school and I would be fired if I layed a hand on a student. In fact, I am required by law to report any suspicion or evidence that I have of a child being abused. It amazes me how state laws can be so incredibly different in the same country!

 

[disneyfanforever]

Wow! I live in Arkansas as well, and I didn't know it was legal. I just checked my district's handbook, and it states corporal punishment in any form will not be used as a disciplinary measure. I guess it is up to the individual district. I would be furious if someone paddled my child without my permission. I think the letter sounded very well written.

 

[pixie921]

I agree with everyone else who is stunned that corporal punishment still exists in schools. In no way do I think it is acceptable. OP, I hope you'll let us all know how things turn out.

I just wanted to add -- and I know you absolutely did NOT solicit any advice about this and I hope I don't offend you -- but I felt a little bad that your son is being punished not only at school but also at home by having to miss the birthday party, especially when he had no malicious intent. He's still little -- I kind of feel like missing recess for so many days is hard enough on him, without having to miss a party too. Just my .02 and of course you know your child best and what works for your family.

I hope things work out with the school and that they realize that paddling children is not an "okay" method of school discipline.

 

[GEM]

Wow! No parental permission needed - that is crazy!

As a former teacher (I now stay home with my three girls 6, 4, and 1) I have never felt the need for corporal punishment. I am a relatively small person (at least I was before my girls anyway ) and not physically intimidating in any way. I worked in "tougher" school districts (100% free lunch, 99% minority, etc, etc.) and never had a problem. My students were middle schoolers and ranged from ages 11-15 and most were bigger than me. Did I ever want to knock some sense into a student - yes - but it was a passing thought! My students knew that I cared about them and would take care of them and because of that respected me and usually acted appropriate. There were some students who I couldn't reach and unfortunately neither could anyone else. And truthfully I think paddling these students would have made the situation MUCH worse. I truly felt that more than likely these students were psychologically harmed by someone and the last thing they needed was a paddling. On that same note, they also did not belong in my classroom disrupting others. They truly needed a special setting. So I guess I figure that if I could control my students without paddling as a threat I absolutely cannot figure why anyone would paddle a 6 year old! If I just look at my own 6 year old daughter cross eyed, she will start to cry! No paddling or spanking threat necessary! There are many better and more appropriate ways of dealing with these situations, especially silly ones like this. Do your administrators not have anything else to do ????

That's part of what makes me so sad about this. My little guy is a VERY sensitive kid. He genuinely loves people (all people) soooooo much and is just one of those kids who's desperate to please everyone all the time. The few times this year he's gotten a "thumbs down" report on his daily sheet (for talking during lesson time, playing around in the bathroom, etc) it's just absolutely crushed him. He really does want to make people happy. This whole experience today just absolutely terrified him. He's said like 8,000 times tonight, "I'm sorry Mama. I didn't mean to make Mr. __________ so mad. I told him I could be good next time if he gave me another chance." Breaks my heart because I know he didn't even really realize he was doing something really wrong..... I do want him to respect his teacher and the rules, no question. We absolutely expect that of him.

But, I also don't want him to be afraid of being hit by an adult if he makes a mistake.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

I can NOT believe that there are still schools that will HIT children in this country. How can that be? As soon as I read this post, I immediately thought it must be a southern state. Why is that? I understand that touching is not allowed, but young kids do not necessarily understand this, especially if their is no malicious intent involved. Just silly playing around. It's sad.

I live in Savannah, and our county does not use corporate punishment. However, it is legal in the state of Georgia.




Where the states stand on corporal punishment:
Alabama--Legal
Alaska--Illegal
Arizona--Legal
Arkansas--Legal
California--Illegal
Colorado--Legal
Connecticut--Illegal
Delaware--Illegal
District of Columbia--Illegal
Florida--Legal
Georgia--Legal
Hawaii--Illegal
Idaho--Legal
Illinois--Illegal
Indiana--Legal
Iowa--Illegal
Kansas--Legal
Kentucky--Legal
Louisiana--Legal
Maine--Illegal
Maryland--Illegal
Massachusetts--Illegal
Michigan--Illegal
Minnesota--Illegal
Mississippi--Legal
Missouri--Legal
Montana--Illegal
Nebraska--Illegal
Nevada--Illegal
New Hampshire--Illegal
New Jersey--Illegal
New Mexico--Legal
New York--Illegal
North Carolina--Legal
North Dakota--Illegal
Ohio--Legal
Oklahoma--Legal
Oregon--Illegal
Pennsylvania--Illegal
Rhode Island--Illegal
South Carolina--Legal
South Dakota--Illegal
Tennessee--Legal
Texas--Legal
Utah--Illegal
Vermont--Illegal
Virginia--Illegal
Washington--Illegal
West Virginia--Illegal
Wisconsin--Illegal
Wyoming--Legal

http://school.familyeducation.com/classroom-discipline/resource/38377.html

 

[minniecarousel]

How "backwoods" can someone get? Paddling in school - holy crap!

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

That's part of what makes me so sad about this. My little guy is a VERY sensitive kid. He genuinely loves people (all people) soooooo much and is just one of those kids who's desperate to please everyone all the time. The few times this year he's gotten a "thumbs down" report on his daily sheet (for talking during lesson time, playing around in the bathroom, etc) it's just absolutely crushed him. He really does want to make people happy. This whole experience today just absolutely terrified him. He's said like 8,000 times tonight, "I'm sorry Mama. I didn't mean to make Mr. __________ so mad. I told him I could be good next time if he gave me another chance." Breaks my heart because I know he didn't even really realize he was doing something really wrong..... I do want him to respect his teacher and the rules, no question. We absolutely expect that of him.

But, I also don't want him to be afraid of being hit by an adult if he makes a mistake.

to your little guy. The way this was handled at your school is way over the top. How is he going to be able to go back to school on Monday? And as someone else said about the little girl, I wonder what she is thinking about how big of a deal is being made of how she and your son were playing.

It really is a crazy world we live in that we need to have these ways of dealing with what used to be considered an innocent act of play.

ETA: Please don't be offended by me either, but I also vote for letting him go to the party. Not that you should listen to me, just my thoughts.

 

[Tinijocaro]

I agree with everyone else who is stunned that corporal punishment still exists in schools. In no way do I think it is acceptable. OP, I hope you'll let us all know how things turn out.

I just wanted to add -- and I know you absolutely did NOT solicit any advice about this and I hope I don't offend you -- but I felt a little bad that your son is being punished not only at school but also at home by having to miss the birthday party, especially when he had no malicious intent. He's still little -- I kind of feel like missing recess for so many days is hard enough on him, without having to miss a party too. Just my .02 and of course you know your child best and what works for your family.

I hope things work out with the school and that they realize that paddling children is not an "okay" method of school discipline.

I totally agree. You know he's not a bad kid-he's being punished at school. Let him know that he must keep hands off, remind him, but let him go to the party.

 

[GEM]

I totally agree. You know he's not a bad kid-he's being punished at school. Let him know that he must keep hands off, remind him, but let him go to the party.

Thanks for all the thoughts, everyone. I'll reconsider the party, maybe find some other consequence to work with at home...no Leapster over the weekend or something. When I told him "no birthday party" I guess my reasoning was that this was clearly a big deal at school and I wanted to make a big impression on him so he would remember it next time and not put himself in a position where he might be hit. But, honestly, the whole thing has already made a big impression on him. So, even though I do feel like we need to reinforce the consequences from school with something at home (no, he didn't mean any harm and it was all just silly play, but he does know that he is supposed to keep his hands off other people's bodies at school) maybe we can find something less drastic. I'm not sure how to handle that. My husband and I will talk it over.

Thanks again for the thoughts and input.

 

[allison443]

Okay, I am apparantly on the opposite side of the coin as most of you.

My dad was paddled by the nuns. And, he turned out just fine. Not only did he turn out just fine, he raised two of the most well-mannered, polite young women you will ever meet. Sure, we may have behaved out of fear half the time, but I guarantee you we never caused any trouble in school, and our parents were NEVER called because of disciplinary issues.

And, I feel we are better young women because of it. Sometimes a little healthy fear is the best thing you can give a child.

Now, I would not want my kids taken out back behind the school and whipped bare bottom. But, if my child did something so bad that it warranted discipline, I would have NO problem with the teacher smacking my kid's wrist with a ruler. I also would not have a problem with him or her being verbally admonished in front of the class. Whatever it takes...

Anecdotes are not evidence. So if I can name someone who was paddled and is a "bad person", does that mean paddling is bad?

My parents were never called to school for disciplinary issues for ANY of their four children. Yet we were never spanked or hit! So do you agree that not spanking/hitting will turn out well mannered, well behaved kids?