Let's Debate Over-Protecting Our Kids

[knitster]

With my kids, the only negative message they got was that their mother was a PITA.

LOL this made me snort

 

[badblackpug]

So then why accuse someone of being 'argumentative' if you were looking for debate.

I actually don't have a problem questioning a parent who felt the need to drive a child 5 houses but I also don't know that parent and what was going on in her head/in her life when she decided to drive them. I also don't know if there are loads of other things she does that might be viewed as overprotective or if this is somewhat out of character. I'm not all that comfortable with people bashing someone who's not even here to defend themselves. To be honest, any thread that centers around inflammatory accusations tends to push my buttons.



I think a lot of people on the DIS feel they have a right to say anything they want without ever having it challenged. To them challenging is simply rude because it's implying you disagree which by definition means you think they are wrong. I just don't get. Challenging another point of view is precisely what debate is all about. As long as the challenge is based on reason (or indisputable facts, as in the case of the poster who used her belief that only the most rural of areas of this country had no public transportation in an effort to support her opinion), it's not rude.

And, where was the name-calling? Did I name call? If I did I'd like to apologize. I must've lost my head.

(referring to the bolded)

A bigger problem that I see is that too many people have been led to believe there is this recipe for success. They use this way of thinking to criticize others and solve society's problems yes, but they also use it when making decisions re: how to raise their own kids. They bury their heads in how-to books from the time their child is conceived. If I do 'this', then 'this will happen. If I don't do 'this', then 'this' will happen. And then if I'mi wrong, and my kid screws up, I can blame the experts.

I don't know, perhaps it's simply too scary to accept the true complexity of it all.

I don't know that it's a matter of being literal. When you say something on the DIS, you are generally going to be expected to own it You 'said' this child was overprotected and provided the following examples of overprotection: mom chaperoned school events and dances, didn't allow sleepovers, didn't allow her to stay alone until high school. You then went on to say it 'backfired' because she went to school and become a wild drunk. The implication was that the parent's behavior which you defined as 'overprotection' somehow led to the child's irresponsible behavior as a college student.

I can only speak for myself, but I was just using your last post as a jumping off point because it seemed to fit the example of yet another poster who seemed to define 'overprotection' in an overly broad manner and then used it as a reason, wth examples, that children are ill-prepared for life as a young adult.

This whole discussion centers around the topic of overprotective parents and how they are doing their children a disservice. Do I disagree? No and I'm betting that most probably don't. The problem comes when people use such a broad brush to define overprotectiveness (i.e. driving a child to the mall). And make connections between things that have nothing to do with one another (i.e. the belief in Santa at 11 and sexual activity at 15).
i
And really what does it all boils down to? Nothing more than some people wanting to 1) criticize others for not following their blueprint for success and 2)wanting to blame society's ills on everybody else's inability to 'see the light'. What else is new?

All of this is rather inflammatory. No one was "bashing" anyone. I thought it was a little ridiculous to drive 2 14 year old girls 75 ft in a school zone. Actually my response was, "It's her gas."

...and no one is criticizing anyone or trying to assign blame to anyone or anything.

It doesn't always have to be an "us or them" situation.

Now if you would like, I will "own" my thoughts: I think that parents have, in recent generations, become much more overprotective and coddling. We hear constantly about how kids grow up too fast, and we expose them to very adult things in some areas, yet try to keep them babies in others. I think that over parenting can be just as dangerous as underparenting. A child who never learns any measure of independence is just as at risk to have problems as the child that has no guidance. When you are constantly hovering over a child and controlling every aspect of their lives the message you are sending them is either: 1) the world is a dangerous place, and with this you are teaching them to be afraid, or 2) I don't trust you... and this builds resentment.

Just because I disagree with your (general "you") methods doesn't mean I am "bashing" or "criticizing" or trying to "blame" you.

 

[dogluva]

A woman I know asked me if I knew anyone that babysits after school for a few hours. I recommended my daughter who was 12. She had taken the course and babysat for her younger brothers (not for a dayl, but a few hours here and there.) Turns out the kid needing babysitting was a 13 year old girl (not special needs).

I found that weird. My kids at 13 watched themselves. If you don't want that, some type of program afer school (YMCA or Boys/Girls club) would be ok but really? A babysitter? I don't know, maybe I am not over protective enough.

I have six kids and they are all very independent. I think it is from having to be a little more so than the kids that come from smaller families. They are more than capable than some of their peers.

I don't believe in stifling a kids's development.

 

[Coconut36]

A woman I know asked me if I knew anyone that babysits after school for a few hours. I recommended my daughter who was 12. She had taken the course and babysat for her younger brothers (not for a dayl, but a few hours here and there.) Turns out the kid needing babysitting was a 13 year old girl (not special needs).

I found that weird. My kids at 13 watched themselves. If you don't want that, some type of program afer school (YMCA or Boys/Girls club) would be ok but really? A babysitter? I don't know, maybe I am not over protective enough.

I have six kids and they are all very independent. I think it is from having to be a little more so than the kids that come from smaller families. They are more than capable than some of their peers.

I don't believe in stifling a kids's development.

Did she explain further? I am wondering if she was having issues with the girl while alone doing things she wasn't supposed to do or something along those lines and wanted someone older/an adult figure around to keep her in line?

 

[PeterPan09]

Now if you would like, I will "own" my thoughts: I think that parents have, in recent generations, become much more overprotective and coddling. We hear constantly about how kids grow up too fast, and we expose them to very adult things in some areas, yet try to keep them babies in others. I think that over parenting can be just as dangerous as underparenting. A child who never learns any measure of independence is just as at risk to have problems as the child that has no guidance. When you are constantly hovering over a child and controlling every aspect of their lives the message you are sending them is either: 1) the world is a dangerous place, and with this you are teaching them to be afraid, or 2) I don't trust you... and this builds resentment.

There's also a 3rd message: "you're not capable".

My cousin's son had medical issues as a young child and was coddled in the extreme by his grandfather. The kid couldn't even cut his own meat or eat with a fork when he was in 4th grade!! No sharp objects!! Grampa did everything for him, so he really believed that he couldn't do anything. Finally his dad stepped in and said-"enough". The boy wanted to go out for football in 7th grade and Dad overruled grandpa and said yes. It was a tough year, but he did it. He played for 2 years and loved it. When he got to HS he joined hockey and loved that, making friends and coming out of his shell. Now he's 28, has a good job and a pretty new wife-and he will tell you that although he worshiped his grandpa, the best thing that ever happened to him was to have his Dad stop the coddling and let him try things.

When you're allowed to fail, you learn to succeed. When you're allowed to persist and work hard, you're rewarded with a skill you've acquired on your own.

I'm old enough to remember disappearing for an entire sunny Saturday afternoon and only coming home when the streetlights came on. I remember taking a glove, a ball and a bat to the ball field and playing with whoever showed up and adjusting the rules as necessary. Pickup basketball in the driveway with only ourselves to call fouls, and of course, the famous summer of the go-carts built with old baby carriage wheels and scrap wood from my uncle's shop. Today's kids won't have those memories and maybe it's better and they're safer-but I'm really glad I grew up in the time I did.

 

[dogluva]

Did she explain further? I am wondering if she was having issues with the girl while alone doing things she wasn't supposed to do or something along those lines and wanted someone older/an adult figure around to keep her in line?

Why are you confused?


She wanted a babysitter to babysit her 13 year old. I didn't know the girl, maybe that was the case. I just found it strange that a 13 needed BABYSITTING. I can see going to an after school program or something. My own daughter babysat at 12 and worked as a cashier at 14. Not braggng, that is just the case.

 

[talulabelle]

Disclaimer: I just read the first page of this post....

I'm not disagreeing with it - although, I do appreciate anyone I know in the community looking out for my kids, even if it is a situation when I don't necessarily think they need looking after. No harm done from someone being overprotective of my kids.

My only comment about the overprotective parent thing is this: where is the line? The reason I ask is our high school posts all grades electronically. Parents (and their children) have and individual password to see their own kids grades as assignments are graded. This was built up by the school as a wonderful tool for parents to be "involved" in their kids education. So my 10th grade boy posts a 0% for a homework assignment that he did not do one night. It brought his grade down from an A to a B. He is a straight A student, and I like to think that my husband and I paying attention and being involved to motivate him have something to do with it. How often do you hear that parents need to be involved for a kid to succeed? So my kids fully admits that he blundered, didn't hand in the HW and it's his fault and he takes the consequences. So I ask my kid if the teacher accepts late homework for partial credit and he says "no he doesn't". Now in the past, my children have been known to confuse one teachers policies with another - so I want to confirm that late HW is not accepted for myself. The teacher has his classroom policies posted online as well. He had a whole page of policies posted but nothing said about accepting or not accepting late assignments. So I email him to confirm that my son is correct. I am his parent and legal guardian, I care about his grades, and I want him to do what ever he can (even if it is for partial credit) to get good grades. I got back the most condescending and nasty email from the teacher. Pretty much blasting my son because he should have known as he was told in class. I emailed back that "no, my kid knew, I just like to confirm for myself" again a nastier email back. Pretty much accusing me of being a helicopter parent. So what is the line? We are told to be involved, and when you get involved, you get an over-sensitive teacher that just thinks you are a helicopter parent.

 

[Coconut36]

Why are you confused?


She wanted a babysitter to babysit her 13 year old. I didn't know the girl, maybe that was the case. I just found it strange that a 13 needed BABYSITTING. I can see going to an after school program or something. My own daughter babysat at 12 and worked as a cashier at 14. Not braggng, that is just the case.

I am confused because you don't know her entire story but are standing in judgment of the mother's intentions and reasons for needing a "sitter". You are implying that it is because she is coddling/overprotective but you don't have a clue if the kid was getting in trouble or doing bad things and thus the parent needs someone to keep an eye on her and called it a "babysitter" (because what should she call it? A "person to keep my kid out of trouble"?).

At 13 there can be a "stigma" of going to after school care (being made fun of by other kids) or it might not accommodate children of that age. My DH is a middle school teacher and there is no such program for that age group in his school and my kids school is a K-8 and I don't believe the after care program is available for kids beyond 6th grade. It limits her resources .

ETA-How could you daughter work as a cashier at 14? Most state labor laws and retail policies don't allow that. 16 is generally the youngest they can be.

 

[cornflake]

Disclaimer: I just read the first page of this post....

I'm not disagreeing with it - although, I do appreciate anyone I know in the community looking out for my kids, even if it is a situation when I don't necessarily think they need looking after. No harm done from someone being overprotective of my kids.

My only comment about the overprotective parent thing is this: where is the line? The reason I ask is our high school posts all grades electronically. Parents (and their children) have and individual password to see their own kids grades as assignments are graded. This was built up by the school as a wonderful tool for parents to be "involved" in their kids education. So my 10th grade boy posts a 0% for a homework assignment that he did not do one night. It brought his grade down from an A to a B. He is a straight A student, and I like to think that my husband and I paying attention and being involved to motivate him have something to do with it. How often do you hear that parents need to be involved for a kid to succeed? So my kids fully admits that he blundered, didn't hand in the HW and it's his fault and he takes the consequences. So I ask my kid if the teacher accepts late homework for partial credit and he says "no he doesn't". Now in the past, my children have been known to confuse one teachers policies with another - so I want to confirm that late HW is not accepted for myself. The teacher has his classroom policies posted online as well. He had a whole page of policies posted but nothing said about accepting or not accepting late assignments. So I email him to confirm that my son is correct. I am his parent and legal guardian, I care about his grades, and I want him to do what ever he can (even if it is for partial credit) to get good grades. I got back the most condescending and nasty email from the teacher. Pretty much blasting my son because he should have known as he was told in class. I emailed back that "no, my kid knew, I just like to confirm for myself" again a nastier email back. Pretty much accusing me of being a helicopter parent. So what is the line? We are told to be involved, and when you get involved, you get an over-sensitive teacher that just thinks you are a helicopter parent.

In the case you describe, I think the line was somewhere in your rearview and that the teacher wasn't oversensitive.

He's in 10th grade. Are you checking his grades like, every night? You asked about the 0, he said he didn't do it.

Personally, I think that's where it ends. He was taking responsibility, you kept trying to stop him from doing so. You ask if the teacher accepts late work - why? First, why isn't it your kid's problem to figure it out and second, why not just leave it lie at he screwed up and accepted responsibility.

So the kid says no, the teacher does not accept late work. AGAIN, you can't let him be responsible for anything or be in charge of anything relating to his own work in his own class. Why did you feel the need to 'confirm' that? He told you no, he goes to the class, presumably he should know that information. It reads like you were still trying to find a way around a consequence for him, when he was willing to accept the consequence.

You go look and can't find it so you email the teacher - instead of even telling the kid to ask tomorrow in class? Again, not letting him be responsible or take ownership or deal with it himself and telling him you don't trust him to even know the rules of his own class, you'll check up for him, just in case!

Look at it from the teacher's point of view. He told the kids the deal and the consequences and his rules. The kid didn't hand something in and now, suddenly, mommy is emailing the teacher because even though the kid TOLD HER the rules, she thinks maybe, well, just, you know, wants to check and see if that's really the rule because maaaaybe he could not lose credit for that one homework. How would you have responded besides eye-rollingly?

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Seems that there are several issues. The mother driving the girls could be seen as someone who is overprotective (but of course she may have reasons that we are unaware of). Kids not being assigned age appropriate chores could be seen as being coddled or perhaps the parent doesn't have the patience to teach whatever it is that they want done and/or relinquish control since the job will likely, at least in the beginning, take longer to be done and perhaps won't be done to the highest of standards. There's also the issue of kids being babied and spoiled.

I just started working as a preschool teacher and it's painfully obvious the kids who are babied. They are the ones that at 4yo need ziplocked bags opened for lunch or who expect us to sit with them (and only them) while they work on letters, etc. They are the ones who announce every move they make. They want us to help them find their seat, even if they can sit anywhere. These are "normal", average (or above average) children who don't have a clue how to do simple tasks and expect us to coddle them like their parents do. I believe that part of respecting children is allowing them to do for themselves what they are capable of doing. Like I tell the kids, it doesn't have to be perfect, but they just need to try.

I'm amazed at the kids who are carried to the door (there's a 3yo and a 4yo program, so no babies or toddlers), who want us to bring their bucket to their seat, etc.

The cool thing is the excitement and empowerment that comes when they learn to do things they've never done.

 

[badblackpug]

Seems that there are several issues. The mother driving the girls could be seen as someone who is overprotective (but of course she may have reasons that we are unaware of). Kids not being assigned age appropriate chores could be seen as being coddled or perhaps the parent doesn't have the patience to teach whatever it is that they want done and/or relinquish control since the job will likely, at least in the beginning, take longer to be done and perhaps won't be done to the highest of standards. There's also the issue of kids being babied and spoiled.

I just started working as a preschool teacher and it's painfully obvious the kids who are babied. They are the ones that at 4yo need ziplocked bags opened for lunch or who expect us to sit with them (and only them) while they work on letters, etc. They are the ones who announce every move they make. They want us to help them find their seat, even if they can sit anywhere. These are "normal", average (or above average) children who don't have a clue how to do simple tasks and expect us to coddle them like their parents do. I believe that part of respecting children is allowing them to do for themselves what they are capable of doing. Like I tell the kids, it doesn't have to be perfect, but they just need to try.

I'm amazed at the kids who are carried to the door (there's a 3yo and a 4yo program, so no babies or toddlers), who want us to bring their bucket to their seat, etc.

The cool thing is the excitement and empowerment that comes when they learn to do things they've never done.

That's interesting. I thought all kids went through an "I do it myself" stage. I thought that was just part of development. My kids are 14, 10, 3, 22m. The last 2 girl/boy are 16m apart. My daughter started preschool at 2 because, honestly, she needed more stimulation than she could get at home with a new baby eating up a lot of time. (and she was destroying my house) She was potty trained and very verbal, so we just put her in school. (she loves it BTW.... but I digress) anyway.... she was very firmly in the "I do it myself" phase and insisted on dressing herself in the morning. One day she went to school with 1 green sock and 1 pink and I got a snarky comment from another mom about it. Heck I was happy she had 2 socks on!

My friend's son had the issue that you describe above. There were some abuse issues with his dad, so she kind of over-compensated by being too lenient as far as rules and discipline and babying him at the same time (before anyone accuses me of "bashing" she is my FRIEND these are problems she openly admits, and issues she went to family counseling with her son to resolve) His kindergarten year was rough. He wouldn't leave the teacher's desk, and wanted her undivided attention all the time. He had a lot of anxiety issues when the teacher wasn't around (such as lunch or gym class) or was showing more attention to other students.

 

[dogluva]

I am confused because you don't know her entire story but are standing in judgment of the mother's intentions and reasons for needing a "sitter". You are implying that it is because she is coddling/overprotective but you don't have a clue if the kid was getting in trouble or doing bad things and thus the parent needs someone to keep an eye on her and called it a "babysitter" (because what should she call it? A "person to keep my kid out of trouble"?).

At 13 there can be a "stigma" of going to after school care (being made fun of by other kids) or it might not accommodate children of that age. My DH is a middle school teacher and there is no such program for that age group in his school and my kids school is a K-8 and I don't believe the after care program is available for kids beyond 6th grade. It limits her resources .

ETA-How could you daughter work as a cashier at 14? Most state labor laws and retail policies don't allow that. 16 is generally the youngest they can be.

Oh, please. Whatever. You must have a babysitter for your 13 year old. Mine (all four) did not require a babysitter for two hours after school. Call me judgemental, I really don't care. I found it weird and I still do. My 12 year old plays outside for two hours at the very least after school. I drag him in to do homework and eat.

My daughter was hired as a cashier at 14. No, the store was not violating labor laws. Some stores hire at 14. She thrived. Her sister did as well. And no, I did not put them to work to support the family. They enjoy working and it is a social thing for both. They both bought their own cars and are very responsible girls. I started working at 14 and I turned out great.

 

[mhsjax]

Oh, please. Whatever. You must have a babysitter for your 13 year old. Mine (all four) did not require a babysitter for two hours after school. Call me judgemental, I really don't care. I found it weird and I still do. My 12 year old plays outside for two hours at the very least after school. I drag him in to do homework and eat.

My daughter was hired as a cashier at 14. No, the store was not violating labor laws. Some stores hire at 14. She thrived. Her sister did as well. And no, I did not put them to work to support the family. They enjoy working and it is a social thing for both. They both bought their own cars and are very responsible girls. I started working at 14 and I turned out great.

I don't know this kid, but maybe there is some unknown circumstance. Who knows, I know mine were staying alone at night when the oldest turned 10 or 11. Cant remember. Also oldest is now 14, and busy with school, but this summer he will b getting a job, at a local grocery store, he will be 15 but this same store does hire at 14, for bag boys, not sure about cashiers though, so yes I agree they can work at 14.

 

[Coconut36]

Oh, please. Whatever. You must have a babysitter for your 13 year old. Mine (all four) did not require a babysitter for two hours after school. Call me judgemental, I really don't care. I found it weird and I still do. My 12 year old plays outside for two hours at the very least after school. I drag him in to do homework and eat.

My daughter was hired as a cashier at 14. No, the store was not violating labor laws. Some stores hire at 14. She thrived. Her sister did as well. And no, I did not put them to work to support the family. They enjoy working and it is a social thing for both. They both bought their own cars and are very responsible girls. I started working at 14 and I turned out great.

I do call you judgmental because you don't have a freakin' clue why she wanted someone you just make judgmental assumptions about it. You said very clearly you did not know the girl so you don't have a darn clue why the parent needed someone or what the circumstances are.

It's rather sad because I suspect if you then discovered the girl was getting into trouble/doing bad things you would then stand in judgment of the mother for not doing anything..so she is darned either way in your eyes.

Many states have labor laws that prevent 14 year olds from working and most retail places do not hire younger than 16. I didn't say anything or ask about why your kid worked (little defensive about that are we?)...just asked how they were able to as in my experience it is not legally allowed but obviously laws vary by state. I started babysitting at 12 but could not work at a store or other employer until 16.

 

[talulabelle]

In the case you describe, I think the line was somewhere in your rearview and that the teacher wasn't oversensitive.

He's in 10th grade. Are you checking his grades like, every night? You asked about the 0, he said he didn't do it.

Personally, I think that's where it ends. He was taking responsibility, you kept trying to stop him from doing so. You ask if the teacher accepts late work - why? First, why isn't it your kid's problem to figure it out and second, why not just leave it lie at he screwed up and accepted responsibility.

So the kid says no, the teacher does not accept late work. AGAIN, you can't let him be responsible for anything or be in charge of anything relating to his own work in his own class. Why did you feel the need to 'confirm' that? He told you no, he goes to the class, presumably he should know that information. It reads like you were still trying to find a way around a consequence for him, when he was willing to accept the consequence.

You go look and can't find it so you email the teacher - instead of even telling the kid to ask tomorrow in class? Again, not letting him be responsible or take ownership or deal with it himself and telling him you don't trust him to even know the rules of his own class, you'll check up for him, just in case!

Look at it from the teacher's point of view. He told the kids the deal and the consequences and his rules. The kid didn't hand something in and now, suddenly, mommy is emailing the teacher because even though the kid TOLD HER the rules, she thinks maybe, well, just, you know, wants to check and see if that's really the rule because maaaaybe he could not lose credit for that one homework. How would you have responded besides eye-rollingly?

While I can see your point of view - let me explain a couple of things:
First, I was not trying to find a "way around a consequence for him". Believe me, he took his consequence here at home as well as on his grades. This is a kid who is truly on track to go to the Ivy's, yet he lacks a certain attention to detail which will probably end up keeping him from his dream.

I was a straight A student in college and it took me until college to figure out how to do it. I had to change my mindset and run school like it was my business. I had to stop the "oh well, I screwed up and missed as assignment" attitude and stop the "oh well, I studied and did my best" attitude. I had to start paying attention to my grades like never before, and yes I had to be on top of them everyday. I had to hound teachers about details (my son does not do this). When you drop to a B, you need to be doing the math to figure out what grade you need on the next test to bring you up to an A. It is highly motivational. My wanting to confirm the policy, wasn't to try to save my son, it was to teach him how to handle a mistake and try to do everything in his power to fix it. You can't get all A's or get in into a top-notch university without this attitude.

My son's lack of attention detail has bit him in the past. First, it caused him to miss the assignment. In the past, it combined with his shyness had kept him from asking a teacher if he could turn it in late. He has also confused teachers policies in the past. I have been trying to teach him and guide him in how to change the way he handles school in order to get all A's. This is why I went to confirm the policies.To me , being a helicopter parent would have been, that even though the teacher doesn't accept late work, I lobbied the teacher to do so anyway and made excuses for my son. Or to report the teacher to the principal for "unfair" policies. I had no intention of doing that, I just wanted to confirm my son was correct, and yes he has given me reasons in the past to not entirely trust him to keep the policies straight.

Also you need to understand that my husband is an attorney and I am in a field that is highly analytic. When I pulled up the teachers policies online to confirm, there was nothing about this. They were incomplete. Why post the policies at all? In my analytic brain - there must be confusion or else the policy would be included there. So I send a business- like brief, to the point email. "Is my son correct about this policy? I don't see it included on your posted list." All I needed back was a "yes, your son is correct" . Business-like. I am sure the teacher read it in a desperate, whiny tone, thinking I was a helicopter parent. But it wasn't. I still think there is a line between being involved and guiding your kids and being over-protective. I don't think I was over it. I need to be in communication with his teachers to be involved. I need to be involved to guide him and teach him. I was not fighting for him, just confirming with a teacher he was correct so I could determine what guidance he needed ,if any. To me, the teacher was (and is) incredibly unprofessional.

 

[powellrj]

A woman I know asked me if I knew anyone that babysits after school for a few hours. I recommended my daughter who was 12. She had taken the course and babysat for her younger brothers (not for a dayl, but a few hours here and there.) Turns out the kid needing babysitting was a 13 year old girl (not special needs).

I found that weird. My kids at 13 watched themselves. If you don't want that, some type of program afer school (YMCA or Boys/Girls club) would be ok but really? A babysitter? I don't know, maybe I am not over protective enough.

I have six kids and they are all very independent. I think it is from having to be a little more so than the kids that come from smaller families. They are more than capable than some of their peers.

I don't believe in stifling a kids's development.

Believe it or not, this was an actual Leave It To Beaver episode! June and Ward hired a babysitter to stay with Wally and Beav while they went out, and it turned out to be one of Wallys classmates! Ok, I'm old and loved Leave It To Beaver, but I thought it was funny that the debate was going on 50 years ago!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

That's interesting. I thought all kids went through an "I do it myself" stage. I thought that was just part of development. My kids are 14, 10, 3, 22m. The last 2 girl/boy are 16m apart. My daughter started preschool at 2 because, honestly, she needed more stimulation than she could get at home with a new baby eating up a lot of time. (and she was destroying my house) She was potty trained and very verbal, so we just put her in school. (she loves it BTW.... but I digress) anyway.... she was very firmly in the "I do it myself" phase and insisted on dressing herself in the morning. One day she went to school with 1 green sock and 1 pink and I got a snarky comment from another mom about it. Heck I was happy she had 2 socks on!

My friend's son had the issue that you describe above. There were some abuse issues with his dad, so she kind of over-compensated by being too lenient as far as rules and discipline and babying him at the same time (before anyone accuses me of "bashing" she is my FRIEND these are problems she openly admits, and issues she went to family counseling with her son to resolve) His kindergarten year was rough. He wouldn't leave the teacher's desk, and wanted her undivided attention all the time. He had a lot of anxiety issues when the teacher wasn't around (such as lunch or gym class) or was showing more attention to other students.

I think that most 2yo's have the "I can do it" mentality, but by the time they are 3 or 4 and have had everything done for them, they learn it's easier to let someone else take care of them.

I do know there may be "reasons" a parent coddles and that I don't know what's happening at home. I won't coddle at school, but will lovingly expect the children to do age appropriate things for themselves. Some of these things need to be taught, but I am willing to have it take a little longer in the beginning so they can learn it. Would have been much easier yesterday if I'd done the cutting activity for a few of the kids, but then they would have missed out on their pride at doing it for themselves. And I would have missed out on one boys adorable way of cutting.....every time he opened his scissors, his mouth also opened, like when a person spoon feeds a baby. And yes, I told his mom about it when she picked him up...by me relating this she now knows that he can do for himself and that someone else noticed how precious he is when doing so.

 

[ccgirl]

While I can see your point of view - let me explain a couple of things:
First, I was not trying to find a "way around a consequence for him". Believe me, he took his consequence here at home as well as on his grades. This is a kid who is truly on track to go to the Ivy's, yet he lacks a certain attention to detail which will probably end up keeping him from his dream.

I was a straight A student in college and it took me until college to figure out how to do it. I had to change my mindset and run school like it was my business. I had to stop the "oh well, I screwed up and missed as assignment" attitude and stop the "oh well, I studied and did my best" attitude. I had to start paying attention to my grades like never before, and yes I had to be on top of them everyday. I had to hound teachers about details (my son does not do this). When you drop to a B, you need to be doing the math to figure out what grade you need on the next test to bring you up to an A. It is highly motivational. My wanting to confirm the policy, wasn't to try to save my son, it was to teach him how to handle a mistake and try to do everything in his power to fix it. You can't get all A's or get in into a top-notch university without this attitude.

My son's lack of attention detail has bit him in the past. First, it caused him to miss the assignment. In the past, it combined with his shyness had kept him from asking a teacher if he could turn it in late. He has also confused teachers policies in the past. I have been trying to teach him and guide him in how to change the way he handles school in order to get all A's. This is why I went to confirm the policies.To me , being a helicopter parent would have been, that even though the teacher doesn't accept late work, I lobbied the teacher to do so anyway and made excuses for my son. Or to report the teacher to the principal for "unfair" policies. I had no intention of doing that, I just wanted to confirm my son was correct, and yes he has given me reasons in the past to not entirely trust him to keep the policies straight.

Also you need to understand that my husband is an attorney and I am in a field that is highly analytic. When I pulled up the teachers policies online to confirm, there was nothing about this. They were incomplete. Why post the policies at all? In my analytic brain - there must be confusion or else the policy would be included there. So I send a business- like brief, to the point email. "Is my son correct about this policy? I don't see it included on your posted list." All I needed back was a "yes, your son is correct" . Business-like. I am sure the teacher read it in a desperate, whiny tone, thinking I was a helicopter parent. But it wasn't. I still think there is a line between being involved and guiding your kids and being over-protective. I don't think I was over it. I need to be in communication with his teachers to be involved. I need to be involved to guide him and teach him. I was not fighting for him, just confirming with a teacher he was correct so I could determine what guidance he needed ,if any. To me, the teacher was (and is) incredibly unprofessional.

It sounds like that, while smart, your son may not have the same motivation or organizational skills as you. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Personally, if my DD8 (third grader) was unsure of a policy her teacher had, I would tell her to go ask her by herself (and accept the answer she told me). I would not send in a note. So, for a 10th grader I certainly wouldn't. Also, I don't care what the policy is for late homework. If she missed it due to a fault of her own, she accepts the 0. She needs to learn there are consequences of her actions. We obviously disagree on this. I just wanted to show you another side of things.

As for the 13 year old babysitting, I have seen this increasingly more lately it seems. I asked a 13 year old the other day if she could watch my kids while I ran to the grocery store. I know this girl, and her mom. There is not a psychological/physical reason that she can't. She said she couldn't that her mom doesn't let her stay home alone never mind watch children. I asked her mom about it. She said, something could happen if she was home alone. I said it was best to prepare them what to do in those cases rather than hope those cases never happen.

 

[pacrosby]

[/B][/I][/U][/COLOR]

All of this is rather inflammatory. No one was "bashing" anyone. I thought it was a little ridiculous to drive 2 14 year old girls 75 ft in a school zone. Actually my response was, "It's her gas."

...and no one is criticizing anyone or trying to assign blame to anyone or anything.

It doesn't always have to be an "us or them" situation.

Now if you would like, I will "own" my thoughts: I think that parents have, in recent generations, become much more overprotective and coddling. We hear constantly about how kids grow up too fast, and we expose them to very adult things in some areas, yet try to keep them babies in others. I think that over parenting can be just as dangerous as underparenting. A child who never learns any measure of independence is just as at risk to have problems as the child that has no guidance. When you are constantly hovering over a child and controlling every aspect of their lives the message you are sending them is either: 1) the world is a dangerous place, and with this you are teaching them to be afraid, or 2) I don't trust you... and this builds resentment.

Just because I disagree with your (general "you") methods doesn't mean I am "bashing" or "criticizing" or trying to "blame" you.

Sorry I haven't been back before this to reply BUT I'm so glad I did come back eventually because you clearly misunderstood.

Honestly, just because I quote you and then address some of your points doesn't mean that everything I say afterwards is directed at YOU. I'm sorry if you thought that it was, it really wasn't. The word 'people'? You'll just have to trust me, it wasn't intended as a code word for badblackbug

I'm pretty sure I've read what essentially qualifies as bashing on here (or perhaps my mind has just been poisoned by all the bashing that has occured on similar threads in the past) as well as a heck of a lot of assumptions about why other people do the things they do. And when I talk about inflammatory statements I am referrring to the tendency to take singular behaviors and turn them into federal cases. It generally always ends up in 'me vs. them' and having been on the receiving end too many times, it makes my head ache. Were my own comments that you quoted and highlighted inflammatory? I don't think so. I didn't make any grand generalizations. In one post I specifically used the phrase "too many people', in another I used the phrase 'some people'. I don't see how either of those qualify as inflammatory.

What's so funny here is I actually don't disagree with your assertion that helicopter parenting is a problem today. In fact I agree 100% with what you say in the bolded portion above. I just think that people tend to overstate what helicopter parenting actually is. And also make gross assumptions based on singular behaviors. A lot (maybe even most) of the examples of helicopter/overprotective parenting given in this thread are really not some brand new phenomenon. Just because it was not something familiar to some people where they lived when they grew up, doesn't mean it wasn't happening somewhere else. Helicopter parenting is not doing your kids' laundry, or making their breakfast, or disallowing sleepovers, or driving kids' to the mall, or allowing them to 'say' they still believe in Santa Claus at the ripe old age of 11.......... That stuff has been going on for generations.

If truth be told, I think society at large needs to take it's fair share of responsibility for this new generation of parents. They didn't suddenly wake up and coddle their children. They've been fed a message which, in turn, has helped to feed this behavior.

Peace?

 

[cornflake]

While I can see your point of view - let me explain a couple of things:
First, I was not trying to find a "way around a consequence for him". Believe me, he took his consequence here at home as well as on his grades. This is a kid who is truly on track to go to the Ivy's, yet he lacks a certain attention to detail which will probably end up keeping him from his dream.

I was a straight A student in college and it took me until college to figure out how to do it. I had to change my mindset and run school like it was my business. I had to stop the "oh well, I screwed up and missed as assignment" attitude and stop the "oh well, I studied and did my best" attitude. I had to start paying attention to my grades like never before, and yes I had to be on top of them everyday. I had to hound teachers about details (my son does not do this). When you drop to a B, you need to be doing the math to figure out what grade you need on the next test to bring you up to an A. It is highly motivational. My wanting to confirm the policy, wasn't to try to save my son, it was to teach him how to handle a mistake and try to do everything in his power to fix it. You can't get all A's or get in into a top-notch university without this attitude.

My son's lack of attention detail has bit him in the past. First, it caused him to miss the assignment. In the past, it combined with his shyness had kept him from asking a teacher if he could turn it in late. He has also confused teachers policies in the past. I have been trying to teach him and guide him in how to change the way he handles school in order to get all A's. This is why I went to confirm the policies.To me , being a helicopter parent would have been, that even though the teacher doesn't accept late work, I lobbied the teacher to do so anyway and made excuses for my son. Or to report the teacher to the principal for "unfair" policies. I had no intention of doing that, I just wanted to confirm my son was correct, and yes he has given me reasons in the past to not entirely trust him to keep the policies straight.

Also you need to understand that my husband is an attorney and I am in a field that is highly analytic. When I pulled up the teachers policies online to confirm, there was nothing about this. They were incomplete. Why post the policies at all? In my analytic brain - there must be confusion or else the policy would be included there. So I send a business- like brief, to the point email. "Is my son correct about this policy? I don't see it included on your posted list." All I needed back was a "yes, your son is correct" . Business-like. I am sure the teacher read it in a desperate, whiny tone, thinking I was a helicopter parent. But it wasn't. I still think there is a line between being involved and guiding your kids and being over-protective. I don't think I was over it. I need to be in communication with his teachers to be involved. I need to be involved to guide him and teach him. I was not fighting for him, just confirming with a teacher he was correct so I could determine what guidance he needed ,if any. To me, the teacher was (and is) incredibly unprofessional.

I really appreciate your reasoned response. However.... heh...

As for not trying to keep him from a consequence, I think you're contradicting yourself. You were in fact trying to find a way for him to not lose the credit on the assignment he'd lost credit on. You say he does stuff like this sometimes. What way is he going to learn not to - by getting a 0 or by figuring out a way to get partial credit anyway, thus this kind of mistake won't affect him or his grades much (if he knows he can just do it later for partial).

The way you figured out school and found yourself highly motivated? That's you. That may not motivate anyone else, including your child. He's an entirely different person and personality than you and trying to make him realize that what worked for you is THE answer I don't think is going to work. Also, just btw, not having perfect straight As will not keep him out of an Ivy. They've moved far away from wanting a class full of perfect grades, perfect scores, cello playing, Guatemala volunteering neurotics. As well, considering the acceptance rate at some schools, even if they DID want that, they'd still be rejecting a metric ton of students WITH that profile. I digress...

You say because of things in the past you don't entirely trust him to keep the policies straight. Again, why is that your issue and how is it not trying to help him avoid consequence? If he doesn't keep the policies straight, his missing out on partial credit would be a consequence of that. Also, not for nothing, but the kid is in 10th grade. That level of micromanaging and not being able to trust him to keep a teacher's policies straight... what're you going to do in a year and a half when he's got to do ALL of it his own and you can't even begin to check up? If, in your view, he needs this level of micromanagement now, and presumably has in the past, what will suddenly change to where he does not, in your eyes? What if he never accepts your method or never finds it motivating? What if he keeps doing this stuff sometimes? How are you just suddenly going to be fine being totally hands off? More to the point, how is he going to be fine if he knows no one is looking over his shoulder daily to check if he's done his work? Is that going to be motivating or freeing from micromanagement and he'll blow stuff off easier?

Your explanation about you being analytical and thus wanting clarification because when you looked at the policy you didn't see the info (that he'd already told you), you had to further explore to make sure he was right.

I know you said the school provided the grade link so parents could be involved - I don't think this is the type of involved they meant, checking every day to see homework grades. I realize to your way of 'school as business' thinking, that makes sense, but to, I dare say, many other people, it'd mean 'you can check periodically to make sure their grades are in general up to par and don't have to wait for the end of the semester.'

Again, again, why could you not just leave it to him? Why could you not ask him to confirm or let him take the zero? Because... you couldn't let him live with the consequence if you could find a way out of it for him and cannot let him be responsible or take ownership of his own grades? Because I know you've explained it and I do appreciate that you did but it doesn't actually sound any different, though maybe that's just me.