LeBron James Opens First 'I Promise' School

[Gumbo4x4]

Not only do I not, since I asked the question, but someone else on this thread seems to agree with that interpretation.

Disneyjunky, in attempting to understand you, asked if you thought that profiting off of atrocities is fine. You quoted her and said everyone does, even Native Americans living on reservations. So, by specifying those who live on reservations, you are indicating that those locations are benefits of atrocities. I'm not the only person who read your post that way.

I gave the example of ALL, and went on to add the Native Americans as an aside.

It’s really pretty simple. Some atrocity or series of them has lead to where we are today. Your very existence, not to mention your ability to earn a living and speak on a discussion board are owed, at least in part, to past atrocities.

The native Americans alive today (on or off reservations) only exist because their ancestors were the conquerors of their time. That means they benefit today from those ancient atrocities. And yes, those on the reservations (and some not) are obviously victims of more recent atrocities. It is possible to be both victim & beneficiary.

Disneyjunky is taking issue with the notion that today’s generation of South African whites is benefiting from the atrocious acts of prior generations. Fair point. But, my point is that’s how it works everywhere. Some places are just further removed from that generation than others. And that doesn’t justify new atrocities against the current beneficiaries.

 

[luvsJack]

I'll make a note to watch for evidence of that in your future discussions.

That I can think for myself? LOL Okaaaay. Or that my two sons are on opposite sides of any issue? Well, I can't explain that one to you, not here. Or that dd can think for herself? Which one of these do you plan to watch for?

 

[monsterkitty]

I gave the example of ALL, and went on to add the Native Americans as an aside.

It’s really pretty simple. Some atrocity or series of them has lead to where we are today. Your very existence, not to mention your ability to earn a living and speak on a discussion board are owed, at least in part, to past atrocities.

The native Americans alive today (on or off reservations) only exist because their ancestors were the conquerors of their time. That means they benefit today from those ancient atrocities. And yes, those on the reservations (and some not) are obviously victims of more recent atrocities. It is possible to be both victim & beneficiary.

Disneyjunky is taking issue with the notion that today’s generation of South African whites is benefiting from the atrocious acts of prior generations. Fair point. But, my point is that’s how it works everywhere. Some places are just further removed from that generation than others. And that doesn’t justify new atrocities against the current beneficiaries.

Thank you for explaining. I understand what you were saying.

 

[cabanafrau]

There's simply no realistic way of going back and undoing most of the wrongs of the past -- particularly without inflicting harm on people who weren't personally responsible/let alone alive. Not to mention doing so by forceful or punitive means runs the risk of bringing about further conflict and needlessly fanning the flames of past grudges best left in the past.

Hopefully humanity lives and learns from our mistakes -- and both aspires and attempts to do better in the present so that the future only looks brighter. It seems as if that's the intention behind the school that's the subject of this thread.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

There's simply no realistic way of going back and undoing most of the wrongs of the past -- particularly without inflicting harm on people who weren't personally responsible/let alone alive. Not to mention doing so by forceful or punitive means runs the risk of bringing about further conflict and needlessly fanning the flames of past grudges best left in the past.

Hopefully humanity lives and learns from our mistakes -- and both aspires and attempts to do better in the present so that the future only looks brighter. It seems as if that's the intention behind the school that's the subject of this thread.

You put this much better than I did.

And strictly from a practical POV, there’s no real way to go about “harming” the beneficiaries in such a way that will benefit the victims. And there’s no way to help the victims that isn’t going to benefit in some way those who are currently at the top. That’s just how it is and it’s hard for some people to accept. I get that.

 

[cabanafrau]

You put this much better than I did.

And strictly from a practical POV, there’s no real way to go about “harming” the beneficiaries in such a way that will benefit the victims. And there’s no way to help the victims that isn’t going to benefit in some way those who are currently at the top. That’s just how it is and it’s hard for some people to accept. I get that.

Those viewed as the beneficiaries or in wrongful possession of land or other resources can and have been stripped of the bounty many times in the history of humanity. It's usually outlined in history books under the chapter where the cause of X, Y or Z war is enumerated.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Those viewed as the beneficiaries or in wrongful possession of land or other resources can and have been stripped of the bounty many times in the history of humanity. It's usually outlined in history books under the chapter where the cause of X, Y or Z war is enumerated.

True, everything is temporary.

 

[cabanafrau]

True, everything is temporary.

Except apparently stupid grudges and mistrust and all the terrible reasons humans waste so much time harming one another.

I've been called cynical about as many times as I've been called my own name. I prefer to consider myself a realist. I've still got to root for the idea that this school will bring some spark of positive boost to its community, to society, ultimately to humanity. It's not going to solve all of humanity's problems, it's not even going to solve all of its students' problems. If even one of its students benefits it will be a positive for that student's life. That can lead to the student positively impacting other lives -- and those people going on to positively impact others and so on.

No one person or idea is going to fix everything. More people motivated and acting to do something good increases the odds good things will happen, and keep happening. The cynic, the realist and the cockeyed optimist in me have to get behind that idea all day.

 

[goofyernmost]

Absolutely you have the right to express displeasure or “belittle” someone else’s free speech. WBC & KKK have rights. That doesn’t mean you’re in violation of their rights if you try to silence them by expressing your own free speech.

And I’m sorry but yes, your employer has the right to stifle your free speech while you’re at work, and even in some cases when you’re not. And private citizens have the right to campaign in favor of that (see: Jimmy Johns). The government doesn’t have that right. But, the people certainly do.

That is correct. You have the right to stand up and say I don't agree with that and give the reason why, you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT, to advocate any form of punishment to them because you disagree. That is not how the Constitution was written and you cannot interpret it anyway you see fit. Disagree and argue with the point, not the messenger. That is an american guarantee and you have a right to express it. However, if you have two opposing opinions, there is a likelihood that one of you may be wrong, and that might be you.

 

[marlynnp]

OMG has this thread gone left - thinking it really should be closed.

left?
far right.
all the way off the rails.
and the usual suspects have freshly washed laundry...

 

[marlynnp]

Vehemently disagree. I think it's highly unusual, even among families unless there's bullying/brainwashing involved.

it's not that far fetched - ignorance begets ignorance

 

[Gumbo4x4]

That is correct. You have the right to stand up and say I don't agree with that and give the reason why, you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT, to advocate any form of punishment to them because you disagree. That is not how the Constitution was written and you cannot interpret it anyway you see fit. Disagree and argue with the point, not the messenger. That is an american guarantee and you have a right to express it. However, if you have two opposing opinions, there is a likelihood that one of you may be wrong, and that might be you.

Wrong. I can advocate for anything I wish. The government is obligated to NOT comply with my demands if my demands violate someone's rights. The employer is under no such obligation.

 

[luvsJack]

it's not that far fetched - ignorance begets ignorance

So any opinion other than your own is ignorance? Good to know.

By the way, I don’t care one way or the other about kneeling at football games. I think the owners have the right to stop it but if they don’t want to, so be it. What I do believe is that everyone has a right to their opinion of it. Obviously not all think that way.

I believe everyone has the same freedom of speech as everyone else. To not say that anyone who disagrees with this particular protest is doing so because of race is being blind and deaf to what anyone has tried to say.

And, just to let you know, disagreeing with the the method of protest does not equal disagreeing with the reasons behind the protest. But of course in the usual narrow mindedness of this world, one can only possibly think one way or they are wrong or racist or ignorant.

Really sad that it has turned into such a black and white world with not a hint of gray in any subject of discussion.

 

[sunshinehighway]

So any opinion other than your own is ignorance? Good to know.

By the way, I don’t care one way or the other about kneeling at football games. I think the owners have the right to stop it but if they don’t want to, so be it. What I do believe is that everyone has a right to their opinion of it. Obviously not all think that way.

I believe everyone has the same freedom of speech as everyone else. To not say that anyone who disagrees with this particular protest is doing so because of race is being blind and deaf to what anyone has tried to say.

And, just to let you know, disagreeing with the the method of protest does not equal disagreeing with the reasons behind the protest. But of course in the usual narrow mindedness of this world, one can only possibly think one way or they are wrong or racist or ignorant.

Really sad that it has turned into such a black and white world with not a hint of gray in any subject of discussion.

Opinions can be ignorant and clearly some are. Having the right to an opinion doesn't mean that opinion is automatically valid.

 

[Hikergirl]

 

[soccerdad72]

Not to veer back to the original topic but I thought this was kind of funny...

https://sports.yahoo.com/thousands-petition-lebron-james-secretary-education-174618029.html

Apparently, someone started a petition to have LeBron named as Secretary of Education

 

[kaytieeldr]

Hey, he isn't any less qualified than the current patronage apointment!

 

[marlynnp]

So any opinion other than your own is ignorance? Good to know.

No, I think that an extended family that contains members which ALL think the same thing does not require bullying or brainwashing to be so. Many such family groups are that way because of ignorance - the actual opinion being held has absolutely no bearing upon the 'hive mind' thought - the ignorance is NOT having the care or intelligence to form independent opinion.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

No, I think that an extended family that contains members which ALL think the same thing does not require bullying or brainwashing to be so. Many such family groups are that way because of ignorance - the actual opinion being held has absolutely no bearing upon the 'hive mind' thought - the ignorance is NOT having the care or intelligence to form independent opinion.

So, were they to all share the same opinion, but in the opposite direction, that would be an indication of ignorance as well, correct?

 

[L&Lfan]

Group think goes both ways.