Lawsuit over Disneyland's Magic Key Passport

[MakiraMarlena]

yes it is mentioned a few times - the allegation is that the fine print is not clear (by itself, without resorting to outside information) in saying that holders of this AP could be denied admission while there is still capacity in the park - that capacity will just be allocated to guests with different types of admission. the court, among other things, will determine how clear Disney is required to be regarding this offering. Guarantee they won't throw up their hands and say ok, everyone with this AP gets in whenever they want to. Possibly for the duration of the current APs, but then they will discontinue that option.

 

[longboard55]

As a side note, I met a lawyer who worked for Sea World. He said they get sued everyday. From the slip and fall, to you stole my idea. They fight everyone to the max as a deterrent. He said Disney is even more fierce in their defense. No chance of a settlement to make this go away

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I may not be a lawyer anymore, but I do remember that failure to read the fine print does not absolve you from the terms of the contract. She is probably alleging that Disney hid the find print so that purchasers could reasonably be expected to miss it, or purposely worded the terms so that they would misinterpret it.

The bigger argument is about separating out availability for park reservations based on what ticket entitlement you have. Disney cleverly held anything back that would allude to a separation of availability based on what ticket entitlement you have. Unless I missed something was there a clear as day statement in there that by purchasing this or that kind of ticket that they would be a number of reservations made available to you based on that type of ticket? And that Disney can decide to move around that availability as they see fit?

**if I have missed it by bad

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As a side note, I met a lawyer who worked for Sea World. He said they get sued everyday. From the slip and fall, to you stole my idea. They fight everyone to the max as a deterrent. He said Disney is even more fierce in their defense. No chance of a settlement to make this go away

Most large companies are used to being sued. I think Apple and Google and Samsung are also ones that are known for being fairly strong on the defense front. I think wasn't Apple and Samsung one time fighting each other?

Disney has settled in the past and settlement shouldn't be assumed to be an assumption of wrong doing either. Sometimes settlement is done for altruistic reasons (like Lane Graves) and other times it's to prevent information from coming out. Even without a settlement I would hope Disney opts to review their AP situation with the reservation system.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

The bigger argument is about separating out availability for park reservations based on what ticket entitlement you have.

This is the entire point for park reservations, at least at Disneyland which is trying to find a way to prevent being overrun by APs since that has been a problem in the past. If they can't do it this way, they will probably get rid of the APs, or only have APs that are good on weekdays or some such thing.

 

[bcla]

As a side note, I met a lawyer who worked for Sea World. He said they get sued everyday. From the slip and fall, to you stole my idea. They fight everyone to the max as a deterrent. He said Disney is even more fierce in their defense. No chance of a settlement to make this go away

Depends on what it is. When Disney is clearly negligent they'll settle - especially when someone is severely injured or dies. I remember the BTMRR incident in 1998. Apparently the family settled but never actually filed a lawsuit, and it was about $30K. But the mom kept on talking about it, which sounds like the settlement terms didn't keep the family from doing that, including lobbying lawmakers to pass legislation on ride safety.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is the entire point for park reservations, at least at Disneyland which is trying to find a way to prevent being overrun by APs since that has been a problem in the past. If they can't do it this way, they will probably get rid of the APs.

No one is actually debating this point here as in it's been said repeatedly (def. by me multiple times) and it's probably being missed but we're all in pretty much agreement APs and reservation system=a mess especially with DLR with DLR being very locals park. But that understanding with us all doesn't mean that the lawsuit doesn't point out was this stated or not. So arguing about the fine print and reading the fine print does the fine print state separate availability will be given and can be changed at any time with different ticket entitlements?

As of note WDW operated with a reservation system without APs from July 2020 to September 2021. DLR operated with a reservation system without APs from April 2021 to September late August 2021 (correction of date). DLR also reopened only to CA residents and then allowed out of state something like a month and a half later.

For whatever reason Disney thought they could bring back something (an AP and a no-blackout option to boot) to both parks with a reservation system when they had quite a while of a reservation system working without an AP. The AP and the reservation system is really just a conflict with each other. When it's slower times the cogs run fine but then busier times there's snags and predictable snags too. Now Disney could still opt to deal with these snags but should be transparent about the difference in availability. It's an ironic way of selling the highest tier pass but then slapping on a strict limitation in using it.

IMO something has to give either

• don't use a reservation system (ain't going to happen anytime soon I believe it's through the end of 2022 at this point that's been said but I'd bet longer likely much longer than that)
• don't add APs into the mix
• don't sell a no-blackout option
• or adjust your language, advertising and marketing to reflect that by purchasing this pass you understand that you have a separate bucket and you will not be given the preference when it comes to park reservations by purchasing an AP. Ideally this last bullet point should be done no matter what as an update to current AP holders T&C as well as if they are keeping APs around.

 

[PirateBrigade]

As a side note, I met a lawyer who worked for Sea World. He said they get sued everyday. From the slip and fall, to you stole my idea. They fight everyone to the max as a deterrent. He said Disney is even more fierce in their defense. No chance of a settlement to make this go away

That’s part urban myth (was originally true with their first in-house legal counsel), if you read Koenig’s case compilation book, there are many, many examples of settlements. Indiana Jones brain bleeding, the ship projectile-to-the-face incident, and the Big Thunder derailment come to mind, among others.

Remember - if Disney fights this to the end, they will have to disclose in open court or through discovery the proprietary mechanisms that determine the reservations and capacities of the park, which have long been guarded.

I’d love for them to fight it, maybe we’ll learn the exact maximum capacity of Disneyland once and for all. For that reason, Disney will settle, and make “incidental changes” to its AP program and marketing…but never attribute it to the lawsuit (like how they toned down Indiana Jones right after the lawsuit, but never admitted that was the reason).

 

[DLgal]

As a side note, I met a lawyer who worked for Sea World. He said they get sued everyday. From the slip and fall, to you stole my idea. They fight everyone to the max as a deterrent. He said Disney is even more fierce in their defense. No chance of a settlement to make this go away

That's not true at all. Disney settles lawsuits ALL the time.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Staying on site is a wonderful idea! I am a Dream Key holder who stayed at a DLR hotel in September but I wasn’t allocated a park reservation *because* I am a Dream key holder! Didn’t matter at the time I paid $400+ a night for a room. Had to hunt for a pass anyway.

Unless things have since changed, that idea went down the drain quickly.

You have access to the resort bucket. They don’t automatically give you one, but they’re available to book.

 

[gelatoni fan]

Disney is artificially limiting Magic Key availability when there is still capacity for regular ticket holders and hotel guests. Many people understand this to be true prior to purchasing a Magic Key but many do not. There are youtubers such as Provost Park Pass who should be experts at this but created videos expressing frustration about not understanding that Disney would do this. This adds to the strength of the case because clearly, many people could claim they were misled. I'm not a lawyer but I think it could be reasonably argued that the terms and conditions make it appear that capacity or other external things forcing park closure would be the main reason that there would be insufficient reservation availability to Keyholders. Even if what Disney is doing is found to be legal, it's still not consumer friendly that the reservation bucket availability is opaque so nobody really knows how much Disney is messing around.

What makes this case interesting is discovery and PR. The longer this lawsuit goes on, the more Disney will be forced to reveal about how they are messing around with reservations. Additionally, the bigger this case gets, the more likely it is to generate bad publicity. $5 million is a small amount but the constant negative press looks like it's starting to catch up with Disney. Their stock is down 14.5% this year while the overall stock market is up nearly 27%.

Is it really a win for Disney if they take a PR hit and win the lawsuit? That would likely lead to more consumers choosing to spend less with Disney and could potentially prompt future legislation forcing the system to become more transparent. I think the main battle is not so much the letter of the law and the contract but rather in the public perception of this practice. I really hope the plaintiff is ready to fight this out and smart enough to do things like start crowdfunding campaigns for legal fees. Imagine if several million dollars poured in to fight Disney. Apart from putting more resources into the case, that would be newsworthy in and of itself.

 

[MillauFr]

As a side note, I met a lawyer who worked for Sea World. He said they get sued everyday. From the slip and fall, to you stole my idea. They fight everyone to the max as a deterrent. He said Disney is even more fierce in their defense. No chance of a settlement to make this go away

Exactly. They will fight tooth and nail. No way the Disney lawyers are going to pull their fingers out of the dike.

 

[longboard55]

So what Is the big win. Higher AP prices, more blockout dates or no APs. The old system is not coming back

 

[Moliphino]

As of note WDW operated with a reservation system without APs from July 2020 to September 2021. DLR operated with a reservation system without APs from April 2021 to September late August 2021 (correction of date). DLR also reopened only to CA residents and then allowed out of state something like a month and a half later.

Huh? WDW has had the reservation system with annual passes the whole time. They weren't selling new ones for a while, but existing APs were still in use and renewable and had their own availability bucket.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Huh? WDW has had the reservation system with annual passes the whole time. They weren't selling new ones for a while, but existing APs were still in use and renewable and had their own availability bucket.

Sorry I needed to be more clear in my comment. Disney didn't sell new AP purposefully because they wanted to launch a new product they were upfront about that. They were open with a reservation system in place but no new APs could be purchased (my DISer friend who relocated to Orlando in November 2020 was mighty upset she couldn't purchase an AP, another couple the wife had an AP but they couldn't do anything about the husband so they didn't visit again until they could purchase one even though she did renew her AP).

Without new APs any attrition you had wouldn't be replaced by someone purchasing a new one whenever they wanted to and they wouldn't be taking up a reservation space either. The issues seemed to have really started when the new APs were launched, that was more where my train of thought was thinking with me saying a disconnect between the reservation system and the APs. It's like the sale of new APs just overloaded the system that doesn't seem to have been built to allow all of that to realistically go on. It's like they built too complicated of a system where a lot of boxes have to be checked all the time with a large influx of new APs purchased all at once. And to be fair I'm more thinking because of the sheer amount of visitors DLR and WDW get.

 

[disneychrista]

Huh? WDW has had the reservation system with annual passes the whole time. They weren't selling new ones for a while, but existing APs were still in use and renewable and had their own availability bucket.

So Disney had already set a precedence for AP's being separate from other admission media?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So Disney had already set a precedence for AP's being separate from other admission media?

Under an old AP with old APs. Not with the new APs.

I don't know if the old APs T&C were updated.

The new APs were set up to be different than the old APs and no one really knows what they had going on with those old APs as far as the numbers and reservations.

 

[PirateBrigade]

Exactly. They will fight tooth and nail. No way the Disney lawyers are going to pull their fingers out of the dike.

But that's an urban myth, Disney settles all the time.

I'm about 55-60% sure they will settle here, but going all the way to a jury trial in the Central District is certainly a possibility.

 

[PirateBrigade]

So what Is the big win. Higher AP prices, more blockout dates or no APs. The old system is not coming back

There's never a big win unless you're lead plaintiff or prevailing counsel

I'm just here for the entertainment factor, looking forward to all the court filings to come!

 

[PirateBrigade]

So Disney had already set a precedence for AP's being separate from other admission media?

Not so much at DLR. In cases of capacity restrictions in the Before Times™ (usually Christmas/New Year), there could be a short period of time where all admissions media could not enter the park, that was about as close as it gets.

There existed for a short time a "Flex" AP that experimented with park reservations on certain days, in exchange for being at a lower price point. These were sold alongside unrestricted tickets and passes. I can't recall what the marketing behind it looked like, and it existed for roughly a year immediately prior to pandemic closures, but it definitely wasn't advertised as "no blockout dates."