Laws regarding public breastfeeding

[lizabu]

I have never been to Europe so I don't know the answer to this: Do people over there routinely walk around topless in malls? Men or Women? I would just think topless=beach, pool etc…. But a mall or Church or a restaurant? That doesn't seem puritanical to me. That just seems like having a certain amount of decorum.

I think the no shirts, no shoes no service thing is pretty universal. From what I've noticed is people in Europe tend to dress up a little more than N. Americans when going anywhere. Near a pool or on the beach it is acceptable to be topless. I think most people if they saw a women walking topless in a mall anywhere in the world would not assume she is breastfeeding.

 

[aaarcher86]

But if you want to support the rights of one group, you have to support the rights of the other too.

Not saying you don't, just making the comment.

I'm not really talking about their right to do it.

Just commenting on these things not always being about someone that's brave and courageous. Just like all the excuses getting kicked about for some of the goofy breast feeding situations. Ya know, sometimes it really is someone just being a bit of an exhibitionist because they know they can.

 

[Hrhpd]

And sometimes people genuinely are just attention seeking whores - which indicates a lack of confidence.

No, say it isn't true, Everybody always has the noblest of intentions.

just kidding. I agree.

 

[aaarcher86]

No, say it isn't true, Everybody always has the noblest of intentions.

just kidding. I agree.

Whatever man.

*off to post a vaguebook about never feeling pretty and wondering why no one loves me*

 

[Hrhpd]

I have never been to Europe so I don't know the answer to this: Do people over there routinely walk around topless in malls? Men or Women? I would just think topless=beach, pool etc…. But a mall or Church or a restaurant? That doesn't seem puritanical to me. That just seems like having a certain amount of decorum.

I have been numerous times. No, people are not generally walking around topless in malls. But men don't either. The mindset is more the same kind of comfort around women's naked breasts as people here are with men's naked breasts. People are perfectly comfortable to see a topless man on a beach, just like nobody would bat an eye to see a topless woman at a beach. However, no matter the comfort level around toplessness, I think everybody would be batting an eye to see either a topless man or woman in a 5* restaurant or a mall.

My family used to vacation on the Riviera when I was young. It was pretty common to see topless women all the time on all the beaches. There wasn't designated "topless" beaches where conservative parents like there are so many here cold shield their children. Children were running around the beaches and parents didn't care what they were seeing.

But as evidenced here on this thread, there are quite a few people that are uncomfortable seeing a baby breastfeed or seeing a breast. Holding a breast out of your shirt to nurse would not even get a second glance by most in Europe because people are comfortable around naked breasts. On this thread, it was called indiscreet.

 

[ronandannette]

And sometimes people genuinely are just attention seeking whores - which indicates a lack of confidence.

I have never been to Europe so I don't know the answer to this: Do people over there routinely walk around topless in malls? Men or Women? I would just think topless=beach, pool etc…. But a mall or Church or a restaurant? That doesn't seem puritanical to me. That just seems like having a certain amount of decorum.

See comment above. I can't for the life of me imagine WHY any woman would want to be topless in public without a purpose (BF'ing or sunbathing perhaps?). For "comfort"? No way. Keeping "the twins" from flopping around is hard enough under a good support garment and a shirt. I will simply not accept that there is any reason besides "looking for a reaction" or "making a point" that would motivate a woman to take their shirts off in any setting that you have described.

But if you want to support the rights of one group, you have to support the rights of the other too.

Not saying you don't, just making the comment.

OK, but let me say what many others are thinking - being free to run around 1/2 nekked is a DUMB right to have and even dumber to exercise it.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

See comment above. I can't for the life of me imagine WHY any woman would want to be topless in public without a purpose (BF'ing or sunbathing perhaps?). For "comfort"? No way. Keeping "the twins" from flopping around is hard enough under a good support garment and a shirt. I will simply not accept that there is any reason besides "looking for a reaction" or "making a point" that would motivate a woman to take their shirts off in any setting that you have described.


OK, but let me say what many others are thinking - being free to run around 1/2 nekked is a DUMB right to have and even dumber to exercise it.

Well, why do men want to be topless in public? Women generally have the same reasons. Everyone's body is different: there are some men who have larger "breasts" than some women. Some women never wear (or need) a bra. They do feel more comfortable walking down a beach topless, just like many men apparently do. I also see men who always wear a shirt. That's okay too.

 

[ronandannette]

Well, why do men want to be topless in public? Women generally have the same reasons. Everyone's body is different: there are some men who have larger "breasts" than some women. Some women never wear (or need) a bra. They do feel more comfortable walking down a beach topless, just like many men apparently do. I also see men who always wear a shirt. That's okay too.

Sorry - I don't buy it. Not as purely a physical comfort thing - no way. And my post specifically EXCLUDED the example of being at a beach.

 

[SirDuff]

OK, but let me say what many others are thinking - being free to run around 1/2 nekked is a DUMB right to have and even dumber to exercise it.

And those thinking it will get no argument from me. Not a right I ever plan to exercise (nor, to be honest, have I ever noticed anyone exercising it outside of a Pride parade or the beach).

 

[Teresa Pitman]

The question I asked at the beginning of my response was - why do men want to be topless in public? Because they are attention-seeking? I guess a lot of men have issues, then. Most women who go topless do it for the same reason as the men.

The main place (other than the beach) that I've seen topless women has been at a local music festival, which is held in the summer in a large park. Some years the weather is fairly cool, and both men and women keep their shirts on. Other years it is hot, hot, hot and many of the men in the audience will remove their shirts. And so will some women. For the same reasons.

I guess you aren't going to buy it, but it seems sensible to me.

 

[Planogirl]

A girl I knew in high school decided to be brave and 'streak' as she called it. It was evening and outside of a football game and she ran around topless for a while. I lost track of her because she was suddenly being followed everywhere by slews of high school boys. I think that this type of thing would likely still happen and is a good example of people reacting to changes from societal norms. Women being topless would definitely take some time for our society to get used to.

 

[LBIJim]

Thank you! I appreciate your help with the quotes.

I can easily think of other reasons for that woman's behaviour. Perhaps she was waiting for someone, and looking around, even standing up, to see if her friend was arriving - and she started to frown/pout because her friend was late and not there. I am not sure what a "challenging" expression would be - did she just look you in the eyes and not look away?

What if the same woman had been bottle-feeding her baby, and you saw the same movements and expressions? How would you have interpreted that?

I have worked with, literally, thousands of breastfeeding mothers in the past 35 years. I do not know of even one who was trying to get attention, flaunt her breasts or expose herself for her own pleasure. Honestly. They are mothers try to take care of their babies.

I suppose your interpretation is possible, but based on what I saw, I doubt it. Perhaps if you'd have been there, you'd have a different opinion. As for the "challenging" expression, it appeared that she was daring me to say something negative.

If she was fully clothed and bottle feeding her baby, I still would have thought her movements were unusual.

For the record, I don't think she was doing anything "wrong." Just something out of the conventional norms.

And sometimes people genuinely are just attention seeking whores - which indicates a lack of confidence.

Hmmmm, I used the synonym for prostitute in another thread last week, and the DIS starred it out. Had to change it to attention hoars.


So far, all the discussion seems to be about mothers breast feeding infants. What would the reaction be if the mom was feeding her 6 year old in public, like in that Time magazine cover from a few years ago?

 

[pigletgirl]

Myself and 90% of my friends breastfed our children. I don't know a single person who uses a cover and not a single one of us has ever "whipped a boob out". I have a very large chest, and even with a newborn in a football hold, you would see less skin from a breastfeeding mother than you would see on a young woman on any public beach beach. The whole "have some class" argument is old.

Not all babies will eat under a cover, not all women can pump and put it in a bottle.

Everyone agrees that breastmilk is best for babies (when possible, not hating on formula moms. My preemie needed formula so I get it)

Putting restrictions on where / when / how a mother can breastfeed her child makes it inconvenient. Every time we tell a mother, who may already be struggling to breast feed, to cover up, go to the bathroom or give their kid a bottle, we are discouraging their efforts to do what is best for their child.

Also it's illegal in most states.

My DD has just recently weaned herself and I can't tell you how many stares I received for feeding her in public. I stopped nursing in public when she was about 9 months old.

But honestly? Why can't folks keep to themselves? When babies are under 6 months and hungry, they're hungry! What is so ick about a mother providing nourishment to her child?

 

[lauradis]

I dont see topless as a positive influence on society

Making people cover up does? If nudity was except able we wouldn't be discussing this more then likely.

 

[aaarcher86]

I suppose your interpretation is possible, but based on what I saw, I doubt it. Perhaps if you'd have been there, you'd have a different opinion. As for the "challenging" expression, it appeared that she was daring me to say something negative.

If she was fully clothed and bottle feeding her baby, I still would have thought her movements were unusual.

For the record, I don't think she was doing anything "wrong." Just something out of the conventional norms.





Hmmmm, I used the synonym for prostitute in another thread last week, and the DIS starred it out. Had to change it to attention hoars.


So far, all the discussion seems to be about mothers breast feeding infants. What would the reaction be if the mom was feeding her 6 year old in public, like in that Time magazine cover from a few years ago?

It didn't even star out the B word in another post I made! The DIS is nuts.

 

[pigletgirl]

Making people cover up does? If nudity was except able we wouldn't be discussing this more then likely.

I don't think that nudity should be acceptable. Breasts have been sexualized since the beginning of time. I can tell you that no one would want to see mine. They're striped and saggy! Not appealing by today's standards.

For some reason, people forget that they aren't just sex objects but they are means of nurishing infants!

 

[tvguy]

So, you said that you knew of nothing that protects a man's job like FMLA does for women. Yet you admit here that men are out for the full 3 months of FMLA and are protected.

Not sure why you want to derail this thread to discussing FMLA, which you clearly disdain.

You still have not explained how being out on FMLA makes a person more sensitive to breastfeeding.

Huh?

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

Well, that's what she was doing with her other boob. My kids aren't strangers to breast feeding. I don't see why it entails the unused boob to be on display?

I think "the Unused Boob" would make a great band name. Off topic, sorry.

 

[Luv'sTink]

It is not perfectly legal to go topless in all state except the three stated. In WA it is not illegal but it is not legal either. Legal means you have the right to go topless. There is no law in WA state that says it is LEGAL.

Washington State Code

The statute used most often in the State of Washington for prosecuting cases of nudity (simple or otherwise) is the Indecent Exposure statute, RCW 9A.88.010 and I’m going to quote part of it here as I think an understanding of this statute is very important as it affects nudists:

RCW 9A.88.010
Indecent exposure.

(1) A person is guilty of indecent exposure if he or she intentionally makes any open and obscene exposure of his or her person or the person of another knowing that such conduct is likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm. The act of breastfeeding or expressing breast milk is not indecent exposure.

In order to make a charge of indecent exposure, and to have it stand in court, all elements above have to be met:

1. An OPEN and OBSCENE EXPOSURE
2. That it was done INTENTIONALLY, and
3. That it likely would cause reasonable AFFRONT or ALARM

Whether you intentionally get naked with the knowledge that it is probably going to cause affront or alarm, the expression still has to be an ‘obscene exposure’. There is a lot of confusion even in the law enforcement community over the difference between what we call ‘simple nudity’ and ‘obscene exposure’. For most police officers, just the fact that you are nude is often enough for them to consider it obscene and arrest you . . . leaving it to the courts and prosecutor to sort the charging elements out. Of course, it costs you time and money, and sometimes your reputation, to defend yourself.


Much more onerous is that a police officer in the State of Washington does not need a warrant to make an arrest for indecent exposure . . . just probable cause and a complaint. Most misdemeanor offenses are cited and the individual sent on his or her way with a promise to show up in court (RCW 10.31.100: Arrest Without Warrant). Knowing that previous arrests for simple nudism under the Indecent Exposure statute rarely stand up (unless you plea the charge), the police have learned that as soon as they have one complaint this statute allows them to get the ‘offending’ person off the street with no repercussions. Immediate problem solved and the ‘perp’ is quietly released at the precinct a few hours later.

So before you go to the store in your birthday suit you better check your State, county and city laws! It states the act of breastfeeding or expressing milk is not obscene, but I wouldn't doubt there are some things you could do while breastfeeding that could get you into trouble with the law as it is written.

https://nudehiker.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/nudity-and-the-law-in-washington-state/

 

[Hrhpd]

Thought of this thread when Neil Patrick Harris came out on the stage of the Academy Awards topless with his nipples showing and in his tighty whities.