latest Thomas Sowell column - gay marriage

[septbride2002]

I believe the liberal media and liberal hollywood wants everyone to believe this is a hot topic and thus brings it up all the time
the vote proved the majority of average americans do not want gay marriage in their states approved (11 states voted that stat speaks for it self).
I believe any state that put it out there on election day would have gotten the same vote
people have become afraid to say they don't believe in it or they are opposed to it because they will be called biased or a biggot.
bottom line is this country is afraid to hurt the minorities feelings but the majority is starting to speak up for it self like keeping Christ in Christmas in schools and other places
I believe the majority has spoken on this issue and it is dead. Forget about it.

I'm sorry I must have missed the annoucement that said you were then end all say all to this topic.

The majority in 11 states have voted - there are states that have not had this issue on the ballot and others that it did not pass.

Keeping Christ in Christmas - do we have to have this arguement again?

~Amanda

 

[Rokkitsci]

I will never get why the concept of gay marriage is so threatening to people. There is just no other reason save homophobia for not wanting the same rights for everyone. You don't care what people do behind closed doors? Why do you care what people do in their married life? How in the world does it affect you? I mean what is this guy talking about - baseballs and footballs? We're talking about human beings.
Gay people don't need a "stamp of approval" from this bozo - they just need him to but out of their lives.

Geez I wish I hadn't read that thing - What a load.

threatening?? homophobia??

Sorry - but you have to do more toss out the radical insult de jour to make an argument. Try to isolate where Mr Sowell, or I, have put forward any statement that you can label "homophobic" or "threatened."

You have not addressed a single argument put forward by Mr. Sowell.

We are merely expressing opinions - and are establishing the logical foundations for our opinions. Why don't you try doing the same?

The method of the LW for the past 40 years has been to just label any opinion they cannot intelligently refute as being "homophobic" or "bigoted" or "racist" or "greedy." Finally, we conservatives are beginning to just ignore the epithets and press on with our arguments. If you don't wish to play in the arena of ideas then that is okay. Just try to avoid sitting on the sidelines and hissing raspberries. That's just not dignified.

 

[ElwoodBlues2]

Keeping Christ in Christmas - do we have to have this argument again?

~Amanda

Yep. Because the argument is the same. You have one group trying to apply their beliefs and morals on another. The point was raised in this thread "how does it affect you if gays marry? (or along those lines)". The same argument can be used for people who don't think religion as any business being mixed with government. So until a law is passed forcing you to particpate in the "Church of the USA", the arguments are moot.

 

[septbride2002]

We are merely expressing opinions - and are establishing the logical foundations for our opinions. Why don't you try doing the same?

When you start to use logic maybe we could have a decent discussion. All the excuses that are used to be against gay marriage never sound logical to me.

Yep. Because the argument is the same. You have one group trying to apply their beliefs and morals on another. The point was raised in this thread "how does it affect you if gays marry? (or along those lines)". The same argument can be used for people who don't think religion as any business being mixed with government. So until a law is passed forcing you to particpate in the "Church of the USA", the arguments are moot.

Why does the government have to have a nativity scene on it's doorstep for you to feel like you are celebrating Christmas? Will you still not celebrate Christmas if that nativity scene were not there?

~Amanda

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Well, no one on here has even attempted to tell us what is so grreat about heterosexual marriage either!! The statistics defy your whole concept and lifestyle. So you can ignore me if you want, but you are doing the exact thing that you so wrongly accuse aunt Polly of doing. So .....what is the "perfect" marirage an can anyone claim to have it? Maybe homosexual marriages would fare better and have less divorce, abuse, and issues like that?

 

[palmtreegirl]

That is a good point.

My position is that the issue is ALREADY on the table - and has been for almost a year now in the most agressive fashion - and it was not me nor my political allies who put it there.

Then TODAY, my favorite columnist published a very cogent opinion on the topic. I wanted to share it - and invite anyone who has a desire to refute any point Mr. Sowell made to do so.

I would be more than thrilled to go the rest of my life and never have to talk about homosexuality again. If the radicals on the left would agree to this, perhaps this will be the last post - forever.

I doubt that will happen, and I will not be silent on a topic where I have coherent opinion.

So today you really don't feel there are "more pressing things to worry about", correct? I just ask because if that's how you feel, own it. They're your feelings and your entitled to them just as I am to mine. I simply just disagree with yours as you do mine.

As for this debate I'm through because I do feel there are more important things to do with my day.

Happy New Year to all!!

 

[Laura]

Gay people don't need a "stamp of approval" from this bozo - they just need him to but out of their lives.

I completely agree. I didn't get married so anyone would approve of my heterosexual lifestyle.

I've heard the "gays just want approval" argument many times. Frankly, I think whether gays want approval or not is irrelevant, just as whether they want to be married to receive legal benefits or health care or whatever. It's not my business why people get married. Straight people have all kinds of reasons for marrying, why can't gay people? For the record, I got married because I love my DH and I wanted to be legally bound to him. That's it. I had some vague notions about legal benefits, but they were hardly factors in the decision. But gays have had to do without the benefits that result from a marriage certificate, so they'd feel the lack of them more strongly than I would.

BTW Rick, I hope all the wedding planning is going well!

 

[dmadman43]

61% of cases reported in 13 to 19 year old were in females, mostly for heterosexual contact.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/youth.htm

Well, at least we now know the prevention.

I'd be curious to know the number of AIDS cases caused by heterosexual contact among monogomous couples.

 

[septbride2002]

And a small minority for homosexual marriage isn't forcing the concept on at least 90% of the population? They can live together, cohabitate or whatever, but marriage shouldn't be an option.

Interesting opinion - care to back that up with any real information as to why you feel marriage shouldn't be an option? Or should we just take your opinion at face value?

~Amanda

 

[dmadman43]

When you start to use logic maybe we could have a decent discussion. All the excuses that are used to be against gay marriage never sound logical to me.

Amanda

What's not logical about the argument that marriage is not a right? What's not logical about saying gay marriage is not discrimination. The way most marriage laws are written anyone of the opposite sex can marry anyone they want. Thus, no discrimination. It would be discrimination of the law prevented someone choosing to be homosexual to marry someone of the opposite sex.

 

[ElwoodBlues2]

Why does the government have to have a nativity scene on it's doorstep for you to feel like you are celebrating Christmas? Will you still not celebrate Christmas if that nativity scene were not there?

~Amanda

Why not? Who does it really hurt?

Why does the government need to legalize gay marriage? Does it stop someone from being gay if they don't?

 

[Sirius]

Thomas Sowell is the only African-American I know who understands the plight and discrimination faced by conservative, right-wing, christian men today.

 

[dmadman43]

OK, then, when gays are allowed the same PRIVILEGE to enter into a legal contract as we heterosexuals are, then we heteros will still not be forced to marry or forced to not marry. We will continue to have the same privilege to enter into a legal contract as we have now. So, how am I forcing my morals on you by wanting gays to be able to have the same legal contract as I do?

Then take it up with your state govt representatives. I have no problem with working to change the laws. I do have a problem with it being changed by activist judges. This is a states issue that should be addressed by the respective state legislatures. This is NOT a federal issue. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with morals. It is a legal issue. Some states have already voted on the issue and rejected it. That's how the process should work.

 

[Chuck S]

Well, at least we now know the prevention.

I'd be curious to know the number of AIDS cases caused by heterosexual contact among monogomous couples.

Probably about the same as the AIDS cases caused by homosexual contact among monogomous gay couples.

If a couple is truly monogomous, and neither was previously infected (yes a partner in a hetero couple could have been previously infected) then chances for infection is 0%..unless contracted through non-sexual means, which also could include both hetero and homosexuals.

 

[Laura]

What's not logical about the argument that marriage is not a right? What's not logical about saying gay marriage is not discrimination. The way most marriage laws are written anyone of the opposite sex can marry anyone they want. Thus, no discrimination. It would be discrimination of the law prevented someone choosing to be homosexual to marry someone of the opposite sex.

That idea is soooo bogus. Why should gays be denied the privilege of marrying a person of the same sex? Why? The only reasons I see are discriminatory. Gays can't produce kids together--so, neither can some hetero couples. We're not preventing elderly and post-menopausal women from marrying. I didn't have to give proof of fertility before I got a marriage licence.

So what good reason can you come up with for not allowing gays to get married?

 

[septbride2002]

What's not logical about the argument that marriage is not a right? What's not logical about saying gay marriage is not discrimination. The way most marriage laws are written anyone of the opposite sex can marry anyone they want. Thus, no discrimination. It would be discrimination of the law prevented someone choosing to be homosexual to marry someone of the opposite sex.

You are right marriage is not a right - I wasn't arguing that.

But a homosexual cannot enter into the same kind of "marriage/realtionship" that you can enter into and be happy! Our basical fundamental right is the pursuit of happiness - yes he can marry someone of the opposite sex - but will he be happy? No. He can choose to be with someone of the same sex and not be married and have priveleges denied to him because of that. That in my opinion is discrimination. People have the right to pursue happiness - I don't see how Joe and Bob getting married will take away your right to happiness. Care to explain it to me?

~Amanda

 

[septbride2002]

Why not? Who does it really hurt?

Why does the government need to legalize gay marriage? Does it stop someone from being gay if they don't?

Nope. But it denies the rights and priveleges that married people have everyday. They are still gay - just not with the same considerations. Does their being gay stop you from being straight.

People who are not Christian and live and support the government in this nation should not have to look at the nativity scene on government property. Seriously though - this is off topic and debated enough over the last few weeks - lets move on.

~Amanda

 

[spearenb]

Thomas Sowell is the only African-American I know who understands the plight and discrimination faced by conservative, right-wing, christian men today.

what an Uncle Tom he is!!! How dare an African-American take a conservative stance when all the others lean left....

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Thomas Sowell is the only African-American I know who understands the plight and discrimination faced by conservative, right-wing, christian men today.

ROTFL!! Now the conversation is done!!!

I wish we could find statistics that tell us who has messed up heterosexual marriage so much?

Well anyway, I hate to see us all fighting on a holiday. So...if I did anything to contribute to that....sorry!
ugh

 

[dmadman43]

Probably about the same as the AIDS cases caused by homosexual contact among monogomous gay couples.

If a couple is truly monogomous, and neither was previously infected (yes a partner in a hetero couple could have been previously infected) then chances for infection is 0%..unless contracted through non-sexual means, which also could include both hetero and homosexuals.

So, again, prevetion seems to be pretty straightforward.