latest Thomas Sowell column - gay marriage

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RickinNYC said:
Look into yourself and try to deem why you're filled with such bias.

What bias ? I have absolutely no problem with whatever you and your partner want to do.

Why is it so important to you that I be forced to redefine the natural history of the world in the definition of marriage?

You have already appropriated one word = "gay" = already and made it have a completely different definition than is historically understood. How much more language re-definition are you planning to do?

Find some other word to define what you want - leave the natural words alone - invent some new ones. How about "hairriage" or "fairriage" or "vairriage" as a description? You can do better than that I would venture.

I have no bias towards you or anyone else. The best man at my wedding was homosexual - he was one of the first to die of AIDS in fact - I have friends now who are homosexual - they don't discuss their bedroom activities with me - and I don't discuss mine with them. As a matter of fact, my heterosexual friends and I do not discuss bedroom activities with each other either.

I just oppose the political statement you are trying to make. I do have that right, do I not?

I wish you well and every happiness life has to offer you. Live long and enjoy - just don't rub your sexuality in my face.
 
They [gay activists] have already succeeded to a remarkable degree in our public schools, where so-called "AIDS education" or other pious titles are put on programs that promote homosexuality. In some cases, gay activists actually come to the schools, not only to promote homosexuality as an idea but even to pass out the addresses of local gay hangouts to the kids.
Really?! I think it is a stretch of the imagination to say that education about protecting yourself against AIDS "promotes" homosexuality. Gay Hangouts? Who is kidding who...do you honestly believe any school would allow that as the article presents it? Perhaps the HIGH SCHOOL kids, who are for the most part already sexually active, were given address to gay health clinics...that would make more sense. I doubt seriously they were address to the local gay bars.

There is no limit to what people will do if you let them get away with it. That our schools, which are painfully failing to educate our children to the standards in other countries, have time for promoting homosexuality is truly staggering
Again, quite a stretch of the truth, huh?

They have already succeeded in getting far more government money for AIDS than for other diseases that kill far more people
It may be true that heart conditions and cancer kill more people in the US than AIDS in the US. But AIDS is a worldwide epidemic. Just because it has been found mainly in the gay community here in the US, do not think it will remain so. It is already taking its toll on more and more people through heterosexual contact, especially in minorities.
 
Rokkitsci said:
What bias ? I have absolutely no problem with whatever you and your partner want to do.
Apparently you do, since getting married seems to bother you for some reason.
 
Rokkitsci said:
Homophobic? where??

Based on this, I could pronounce that your comments are heterophobic.

Touche! It's interesting that homosexuals never see that side of their argument.
 

chobie said:
When gays finally have the right to marry, no heterosexuals will be forced to marry a person of the same sex, nor will their right to marry a member of the opposite sex be taken away. How is that forcing their morals on you?
YOU won't be forced to marry someone of the opposite and sex and YOU will still have the same rights you have now. How hard is that to understand?

For the umpteenth time. Marriage is not a right, it's a legal contract.
 
Chuck S said:
It is already taking its toll on more and more people through heterosexual contact, especially in minorities.

supporting data, please?
 
Rokkitsci said:
Yep - there sure are MUCH more pressing things to worry about. So why are the homosexual activists making such a BIG deal out of this. Most of us would rather not have to bother with such a silly notion. Tell them to stop it. I would be glad to ignore this.

I don't understand something. If you're so tired of discussing the issue then why did you start this thread today? No one posted a thread about being for gay marriage today, did they? You brought it up so therefore you're the one making a big deal out of it despite their being "more pressing things to worry about", right?
 
chobie said:
When gays finally have the right to marry, no heterosexuals will be forced to marry a person of the same sex, nor will their right to marry a member of the opposite sex be taken away. How is that forcing their morals on you?
YOU won't be forced to marry someone of the opposite and sex and YOU will still have the same rights you have now. How hard is that to understand?


Please be specific when you say "right to marry". Gays have the right to marry anyone they like from the opposite sex right now. The problem is they don't like their choices. No one is forcing them to marry anyone from the opposite sex. They don't have any legal requirement to get married.

Personally, I would love to see the govt get out of the legal sanctioning of marriage. It imposes all sorts of restrictions and road blocks on married couples in the name of protecting people who can be protected by other means. It's just easy "one stop shopping".
 
For the umpteenth time. Marriage is not a right, it's a legal contract.

OK, then, when gays are allowed the same PRIVILEGE to enter into a legal contract as we heterosexuals are, then we heteros will still not be forced to marry or forced to not marry. We will continue to have the same privilege to enter into a legal contract as we have now. So, how am I forcing my morals on you by wanting gays to be able to have the same legal contract as I do?
 
chobie said:
When gays finally have the right to marry, no heterosexuals will be forced to marry a person of the same sex, nor will their right to marry a member of the opposite sex be taken away. How is that forcing their morals on you?
YOU won't be forced to marry someone of the opposite and sex and YOU will still have the same rights you have now. How hard is that to understand?
Have you read the article? I will be glad to discuss your refutation of any point made in the article. I am not at all interested in chasing the red herrings of irrelevant strawmen that proponents of homosexual marriage continue to toss into the debate whenever the topic comes up.

And yes - as pointed out in the article, if this minority of opinion should prevail, then the majority would be forced to discard whatever opinion they held - by law - on the topic. This is THE major aborogation of rights. Nobody is denying homosexuals the "right" to live anyway they want. All we are saying is that THEY do not have the "right" to make US all abandon our definition of marriage - a definition that has evolved over 50000 years of human evolution.

How hard is that to understand ?

You should at least allow us one PERCENT of that evolutionary timeframe to elapse while you work to 'evolve' this new concept through natual means. That would put it off until about 2504 when we should next take up the topic and examine the evolutionary progress.
 
dmadman43 said:
Touche! It's interesting that homosexuals never see that side of their argument.

Heterophobic would mean that one of us on here have expressed an aversion, or dislike of hetersexuals or an objection to heterosexual marriage. I don't see anywhere on here where anyone has stated that heterosexuals should not marry?

I don't recall anyone ever posting a thread stating that they have an issue with the general concept oof heterosexual marriage. I do however believe that the whole institution itself is flawed. We have so much divorce, people defaulting on child support, women in abusive marriages, I could go on and on. Why is it that some of you married people aren't so worried about fixing, what is already broke? :rolleyes:
 
minniepumpernickel said:
Why is it that some of you married people aren't so worried about fixing, what is already broke? :rolleyes:

And how did it get that way?

Liberal evolution?
 
I will never get why the concept of gay marriage is so threatening to people. There is just no other reason save homophobia for not wanting the same rights for everyone. You don't care what people do behind closed doors? Why do you care what people do in their married life? How in the world does it affect you? I mean what is this guy talking about - baseballs and footballs? We're talking about human beings.
Gay people don't need a "stamp of approval" from this bozo - they just need him to but out of their lives.

Geez I wish I hadn't read that thing - What a load.
 
I believe the liberal media and liberal hollywood wants everyone to believe this is a hot topic and thus brings it up all the time
the vote proved the majority of average americans do not want gay marriage in their states approved (11 states voted that stat speaks for it self).
I believe any state that put it out there on election day would have gotten the same vote
people have become afraid to say they don't believe in it or they are opposed to it because they will be called biased or a biggot.
bottom line is this country is afraid to hurt the minorities feelings but the majority is starting to speak up for it self like keeping Christ in Christmas in schools and other places
I believe the majority has spoken on this issue and it is dead. Forget about it.
 
ElwoodBlues2 said:
And how did it get that way?

Liberal evolution?

I don't know? Don't conservatives get divorced too? Or maybe they stay togethor in warped marriages just for the sake of staying married? That sounds like an even worse fate. Forgive my cynicism, kay? Maybe nobody should get married?? :earseek:
 
palmtreegirl said:
I don't understand something. If you're so tired of discussing the issue then why did you start this thread today? No one posted a thread about being for gay marriage today, did they? You brought it up so therefore you're the one making a big deal out of it despite their being "more pressing things to worry about", right?

That is a good point.

My position is that the issue is ALREADY on the table - and has been for almost a year now in the most agressive fashion - and it was not me nor my political allies who put it there.

Then TODAY, my favorite columnist published a very cogent opinion on the topic. I wanted to share it - and invite anyone who has a desire to refute any point Mr. Sowell made to do so.

I would be more than thrilled to go the rest of my life and never have to talk about homosexuality again. If the radicals on the left would agree to this, perhaps this will be the last post - forever.

I doubt that will happen, and I will not be silent on a topic where I have coherent opinion.
 
In all the states where gay marriage was on the ballot this year, the voters voted against it -- as they should have.
Of all the phony arguments for gay marriage, the phoniest is the argument that it is a matter of equal rights. Marriage is not a right extended to individuals by the government. It is a restriction on the rights they already have.


This is his opinion. I have not found that my marriage has restricted any rights that I have. If my spouse goes into a coma he will never come out of then I have the right to exercise his living will. If he severely hurt then I still have the right to see him in the hospital. If he were to die I know that our children will still be in my custody.

People who are simply living together can make whatever arrangements they want, whether they are heterosexual or homosexual. They can divide up their worldly belongings 50-50 or 90-10 or whatever other way they want. They can make their union temporary or permanent or subject to cancellation at any time.

This is all good in theory - however these contracts can be contested by individuals families and courts tend to side with families. Not to mention the need to carry around ones "arrangements" to hospitals so that a loved one can be allowed into a IC unit.

Marriage is a restriction. If my wife buys an automobile with her own money, under California marriage laws I automatically own half of it, whether or not my name is on the title. Whether that law is good, bad, or indifferent, it is a limitation of our freedom to arrange such things as we ourselves might choose. This is just one of many decisions that marriage laws take out of our hands.

Then he may need to choose a better wife. And actually CA does have a loop hole when it comes to property they can always title things as sole and seperate property and then the spouse has no rights to the property.

Oliver Wendell Holmes said that the life of the law is not logic but experience. Marriage laws have evolved through centuries of experience with couples of opposite sexes -- and the children that result from such unions. Society asserts its stake in the decisions made by restricting the couples' options.

Society has no such stake in the outcome of a union between two people of the same sex. Transferring all those laws to same-sex couples would make no more sense than transferring the rules of baseball to football.

Why then do gay activists want their options restricted by marriage laws, when they can make their own contracts with their own provisions and hold whatever kinds of ceremony they want to celebrate it?


Interesting the laws have evolved due to the "children resulting in those unions." Homesexual couples would not be able to have children in the traditional sense.

The issue is not individual rights. What the activists are seeking is official social approval of their lifestyle. But this is the antithesis of equal rights.

Not from where I sit. It is more of a please stay out of our business rather then asking you appove of their lifestyle.

If you have a right to someone else's approval, then they do not have a right to their own opinions and values. You cannot say that what "consenting adults" do in private is nobody else's business and then turn around and say that others are bound to put their seal of approval on it.

Everyone has a right to their own opinions and values what they do not have the right to do is impose them on anyone else. If two men marry how does that impose on my opinions and values? It doesn't. My values stay in tack. Again you are not approving or disapproving anything what they do in fact does not effect you as a person or household. Please someone show me how your gay neighbors marrying infringes on your rights.

The rhetoric of "equal rights" has become the road to special privilege for all sorts of groups, so perhaps it was inevitable that gay activists would take that road as well. It has worked. They have already succeeded in getting far more government money for AIDS than for other diseases that kill far more people.

The man sounded somewhat intelligent until he made this statement. AIDS does not just kill homosexuals. It kills all genders, nationalities, and races. And this statment just goes to show the man is a bigot.

The time is long overdue to stop word games about equal rights from leading to special privileges -- for anybody -- and gay marriage is as good an issue on which to do so as anything else.

Incidentally, it is not even clear how many homosexuals actually want marriage, even though gay activists are pushing it.

What the activists really want is the stamp of acceptance on homosexuality, as a means of spreading that lifestyle, which has become a death style in the era of AIDS.


Again - AIDS does not just kill homosexuals. And there are many many many heterosexuals who have multiple partners. Why is it this writer feels the need to make homosexuals sound like a bunch of sex crazed idiots? Is that fear talking?

They have already succeeded to a remarkable degree in our public schools, where so-called "AIDS education" or other pious titles are put on programs that promote homosexuality. In some cases, gay activists actually come to the schools, not only to promote homosexuality as an idea but even to pass out the addresses of local gay hangouts to the kids.

There is no limit to what people will do if you let them get away with it. That our schools, which are painfully failing to educate our children to the standards in other countries, have time for promoting homosexuality is truly staggering.


Well now I've read everything. Seriously some of you are actually listening to this bigot? Promoting homosexuality because the schools are teaching children about sexually transmitted diseases? Wow - I wonder what kind of bomb shelter this man lives in.

Every special interest group has an incentive to take something away from society as a whole. Some will be content just to siphon off a share of the taxpayers' money for themselves. Others, however, want to dismantle a part of the structure of values that make a society viable.

They may not want to bring down the whole structure, just get rid of the part that cramps their style. But when innumerable groups start dismantling pieces of the structure that they don't like, we can be headed for the kinds of social collapses seen both in history and in other parts of the world in our own times.


Yes because acceptance and tolerance have always dismantled societies. Please. It is hatred, ignorance, and fear that have destroyed societies, empires, and whole ethnic groups. This man does nothing but spew more of this out into the airwaves.

~Amanda
 
I believe the liberal media and liberal hollywood wants everyone to believe this is a hot topic and

Now were on to the subject of the liberal media? Would someone please write the phrase "liberal elite" so the drinking can commence?

All we are saying is that THEY do not have the "right" to make US all abandon our definition of marriage - a definition that has evolved over 50000 years of human evolution.

I don't believe in evolution, I believe in creationism or intelligent design or whatever euphemism they're giving this week.
 
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