Las Vegas Shooting

[marcyleecorgan]

The gofundme page now has $11,277,083 with the goal at $15million. The goal keeps changing due to how much people keep giving (I remember when the local news in Vegas were talking about the goal being just $2million then $4million, etc). Heck a person 13min ago donated $10,500. I wouldn't be expecting the funds to just be dispersed immediately. The event happened less than a month ago. What I do expect is more clarity on their plan with the funds. Based on how the newsanchors and whatnot reacted on local Vegas TV in the few days after the event people just did not expect the overwhelming financial support that people gave. Perhaps this is causing delays. IDK just thinking out loud.

The medical bills at this time should be sent to the victims but the hospitals, etc shouldn't be enforcing an actual date of payment due to the nature of what happened at least IMO.

WOW that is a LOT of due diligence for the GoFundMe team to sort out how this money all gets properly sorted into the appropriate channels!

 

[mom2rtk]

The gofundme page now has $11,277,083 with the goal at $15million. The goal keeps changing due to how much people keep giving (I remember when the local news in Vegas were talking about the goal being just $2million then $4million, etc). Heck a person 13min ago donated $10,500. I wouldn't be expecting the funds to just be dispersed immediately. The event happened less than a month ago. What I do expect is more clarity on their plan with the funds. Based on how the newsanchors and whatnot reacted on local Vegas TV in the few days after the event people just did not expect the overwhelming financial support that people gave. Perhaps this is causing delays. IDK just thinking out loud.

The medical bills at this time should be sent to the victims but the hospitals, etc shouldn't be enforcing an actual date of payment due to the nature of what happened at least IMO.

I doubt most hospital bills are paid this early in the game regardless. Insurance companies usually burn a lot of time deciding what they're going to pay before anyone ever looks at the patient to start paying.

 

[wonder whisper]

Very good summary from the Las Vegas Review Journal of how frustration is growing with the way authorities are communicating the status of the investigation:

"Fifty-eight people killed. More than 500 injured. And yet, nearly a month after the Las Vegas Strip experienced the worst mass shooting in modern American history, local and federal authorities are refusing to fill in the blanks.

Nearly a month after the mass shooting, the gunman’s motive remains a mystery. More straightforward questions also remain unanswered, including whether the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay — where the gunman was staying — has surveillance cameras, and what exactly investigators collected in the gunman’s hotel room and homes. Authorities also have not said how long the gunman had a “do not disturb” sign on his hotel door, and whether hotel staff saw something suspicious in his room but failed to report it.

Though authorities have described the investigation as a team effort, they have not explained what role Las Vegas police, the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives are playing in the case."

 

[wonder whisper]

WOW that is a LOT of due diligence for the GoFundMe team to sort out how this money all gets properly sorted into the appropriate channels!

As I observed a month ago, the organizers of the Las Vegas "Go Fund Me" initiative have from the beginning IMHO been doing a consistently crappy job at being transparent and open on the planned use of the funds.

They prematurely announced back the week the fund raising started that they would announce that week how the funds would be dispersed - but didn't keep that promise and are still being non-commital about how and to whom benefits will be distributed. $15 million may sound like a lot, but that will get burned through very quickly if even just a small proportion of victims go after that pot by presenting huge medical claims or retaining legal counsel who will make enormous claims for lost future earnings of deceased victims.

So I wouldn't be surprised if history ends up showing one of the outcomes of this terrible event is how well-intentioned but poorly managed "crowdsourced" funding can actually end up exacerbating the pain it sought to address.

 

[wonder whisper]

OK, a full month later, and we are still without any answers. And even more interestingly the Vegas shooting has pretty much disappeared from the cable news channels. Even online, discussion over the shooting (including here) has all but vanished, save from some of the more conspiratorial corners of the web.

And here are some interesting facts that are getting little to no attention:

The official timeline of the Vegas shooting has changed three times.


Paddock apparently took cruises to ports in the Middle East.


Paddock’s laptop was missing its hard drive when recovered in his hotel room.


Despite a month of being told otherwise, it’s now been revealed that police did discharge fire in Paddock’s hotel room upon entry. But why, if Paddock had already killed himself before police breached the room?


Jesus Campos -- the security guard who first reportedly found Paddock as he started his killing spree, and was shot in the leg in the process -- not only disappeared after scheduling several television interviews, but it’s now been revealed Campos reportedly left the country just days after the Vegas shooting.


Why did authorities let Campos leave the country in the middle of an investigation? How did Campos travel unhindered with a gunshot wound in his leg?


Campos was said to have been last heard from when he went to a walk-in health clinic… but a spokesperson for UMC Quick Care – the facility Campos supposedly went to – said they had “heard nothing” about Campos visiting them.

 

[Donnainnj]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5039215/Vegas-security-guard-Jesus-Campos-returns-work.html

 

[mnrose]

OK, a full month later, and we are still without any answers. And even more interestingly the Vegas shooting has pretty much disappeared from the cable news channels. Even online, discussion over the shooting (including here) has all but vanished, save from some of the more conspiratorial corners of the web.

And here are some interesting facts that are getting little to no attention:

The official timeline of the Vegas shooting has changed three times.


Paddock apparently took cruises to ports in the Middle East.


Paddock’s laptop was missing its hard drive when recovered in his hotel room.


Despite a month of being told otherwise, it’s now been revealed that police did discharge fire in Paddock’s hotel room upon entry. But why, if Paddock had already killed himself before police breached the room?


Jesus Campos -- the security guard who first reportedly found Paddock as he started his killing spree, and was shot in the leg in the process -- not only disappeared after scheduling several television interviews, but it’s now been revealed Campos reportedly left the country just days after the Vegas shooting.


Why did authorities let Campos leave the country in the middle of an investigation? How did Campos travel unhindered with a gunshot wound in his leg?


Campos was said to have been last heard from when he went to a walk-in health clinic… but a spokesperson for UMC Quick Care – the facility Campos supposedly went to – said they had “heard nothing” about Campos visiting them.

There's nothing mysterious about that. It happens all.the.time. Only conspiracy theorists, and those who wear tinfoil hats, would consider it "unusual" for people to stop talking about something after a few days/weeks. Shrug.

And, the Campos stuff has been discredited all over the place. Again, conspiracy theorists aside. He did an interview, and now is back at work. Gee, so unusual.

 

[wonder whisper]

Only conspiracy theorists, and those who wear tinfoil hats, would consider it "unusual" for people to stop talking about something after a few days/weeks. Shrug.

So, the Las Vegas media -- which are raising the same "why the silence?" points I did are all tinfoil wearing conspiracy freaks?

And noteworthy you didn't address any of the other factiods I mentioned (such as the continually changing timeline of the event, Paddock's cruise history and the missing hard drive on his PC).

Bottom line: when commentators on the Sunday morning news shows are pointing out that confidence in the FBI (which was already weakening before the Vegas debacle) is now falling even more given their radio silence on the tortise-like progress of the investigation, the smart money knows what is likely going on, which is the investigation being complicated by the authorities and MGM engaging in major CYA.

 

[cabanafrau]

So, the Las Vegas media -- which are raising the same "why the silence?" points I did are all tinfoil wearing conspiracy freaks?

And noteworthy you didn't address any of the other factiods I mentioned (uch as Paddock's cruise history and the missing hard drive on his PC).

Bottom line: when commentators on the Sunday morning news shows are pointing out that confidence in the FBI (which was already weakening before the Vegas debacle) is now falling even more given their radio silence on the status of the investigation, the smart money knows what is likely going on, which is the authorities and MGM engaging in major CYA.

If the guy did this for reasons known only to himself without anyone in his life having the imagination to suspect, surely the FBI should be able to figure it out, right? What if part of his plan was to leave behind immense curiosity and he took steps to make sure that's how it would play out? He could have disposed of that hard drive in countless ways in countless locations specifically with an idea to spur wild goose chases. This may remain the DB Cooper case of this era. The FBI isn't the cast of some TV show or movie, always destined to solve absolutely everything on the smallest scintilla of evidence.

 

[wonder whisper]

If the guy did this for reasons known only to himself without anyone in his life having the imagination to suspect, surely the FBI should be able to figure it out, right? What if part of his plan was to leave behind immense curiosity and he took steps to make sure that's how it would play out? He could have disposed of that hard drive in countless ways in countless locations specifically with an idea to spur wild goose chases. This may remain the DB Cooper case of this era. The FBI isn't the cast of some TV show or movie, always destined to solve absolutely everything on the smallest scintilla of evidence.

Yawn. In case you missed it, I was one of the first people in this thread to point out that (a) Paddock would likely turn out to be an enigma and (b) that before the FBI turned their transmitter off, a spokesperson there said their top, expert profilers were drawing complete blanks on figuring him out. My point now is this case is rapidly heading in the direction of going down in history as the example of how to not give the public confidence that an objective investigation was conducted.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yawn. In case you missed it, I was one of the first people in this thread to point out that (a) Paddock would likely turn out to be an enigma and (b) that before the FBI turned their transmitter off, a spokesperson there said their top, expert profilers were drawing complete blanks on figuring him out. My point now is this case is rapidly heading in the direction of going down in history as the example of how to not give the public confidence that an objective investigation was conducted.

I'm not certain, are you looking for a recognition for making the suggestion he would turn out to be an enigma? It's not like it was unsuspected -- by many, no doubt the authorities included. Of course an investigation was going to be completed. The fact they still don't have any ideas and suspected from the start that might turn out to be the case isn't inherently causality linked in the eyes of many, but it does great things for the sales figures on tin foil hats.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

OK, a full month later, and we are still without any answers. And even more interestingly the Vegas shooting has pretty much disappeared from the cable news channels. Even online, discussion over the shooting (including here) has all but vanished, save from some of the more conspiratorial corners of the web.

I hate to break it to ya but this happens for just about all things.

Big things happen..it gets talked about for a while..and then it fades out and is replaced by the next big thing.

It just happens.

Harvey stopped being talked about when Irma happened and then Irma stopped being talked about when Maria happened. We now have the NYC terror attack to talk about not to mention what goes on in local areas that cause local media to concentrate on other things.

 

[IAHFTPT]

 

[cabanafrau]

I hate to break it to ya but this happens for just about all things.

Big things happen..it gets talked about for a while..and then it fades out and is replaced by the next big thing.

It just happens.

Harvey stopped being talked about when Irma happened and then Irma stopped being talked about when Maria happened. We now have the NYC terror attack to talk about not to mention what goes on in local areas that cause local media to concentrate on other things.

No, clearly the media is playing a distraction game with these other stories so no one will realize the LV shootings haven't been "solved".

Get yer tin foil hat before they're all gone!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If the guy did this for reasons known only to himself without anyone in his life having the imagination to suspect, surely the FBI should be able to figure it out, right? What if part of his plan was to leave behind immense curiosity and he took steps to make sure that's how it would play out? He could have disposed of that hard drive in countless ways in countless locations specifically with an idea to spur wild goose chases. This may remain the DB Cooper case of this era. The FBI isn't the cast of some TV show or movie, always destined to solve absolutely everything on the smallest scintilla of evidence.

IIRC, didn't the Sandy Hook shooter deliberately damage his hard drive?

Either way, sounds like something the shooter did.

I do hope we learn more about the mix of ammo he used. He's said to have fired a combination of .223 and .308 ammo at distances of up to 550 yards. .223 isn't generally considered lethal at that range. But, the .308 would have been tremendously difficult to control with a bumpstock. So, I do wonder what we're not yet being told about his weapons.

 

[bcla]

IIRC, didn't the Sandy Hook shooter deliberately damage his hard drive?

Either way, sounds like something the shooter did.

I do hope we learn more about the mix of ammo he used. He's said to have fired a combination of .223 and .308 ammo at distances of up to 550 yards. .223 isn't generally considered lethal at that range. But, the .308 would have been tremendously difficult to control with a bumpstock. So, I do wonder what we're not yet being told about his weapons.

It should be somewhat lethal from that range. Perhaps it would lose velocity, but gravity would add a small bit of energy. Heavier bullets would help to reduce energy loss.

Even a .22LR can be lethal at short distances. Several of the deaths in the Virginia Tech shooting were from a .22. Maybe less lethal than something more powerful. Even if it loses most of its energy, it's packing the same energy as many handgun rounds. He put out so much that someone was bound to succumb. An in many cases I would think the victims bled out because the chaos made it difficult to get medical attention.

 

[bcla]

I do hope we learn more about the mix of ammo he used. He's said to have fired a combination of .223 and .308 ammo at distances of up to 550 yards. .223 isn't generally considered lethal at that range. But, the .308 would have been tremendously difficult to control with a bumpstock. So, I do wonder what we're not yet being told about his weapons.

Thinking about it again, and the position from high (or where a shot is heading downwards) is supposed to make it more likely that someone is hit in the head if they are hit. There are reported cases of fatalities as a result of shots fired in the air with handguns and hitting someone a half mile away. I remember hearing about a guy who cleared his muzzle loader by firing in the air before cleaning it, and that killed an Amish girl over a mile away. I've talked to experienced shooters, and they tell me that firearms can be lethal to some degree at long distances. It's certainly reduced lethality, but being hit by one that's reduced its energy to 10% is still dangerous. I've heard that some military shooters use .22LR because it's quieter for infiltration when suppressed.

Still - there were about 10 times as many non-fatal injuries as there were fatalities, although I don't know what breakdown of the reasons. I heard some people were seriously injured by trampling. So perhaps they weren't that powerful, but where the averages still meant that people died.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Thinking about it again, and the position from high (or where a shot is heading downwards) is supposed to make it more likely that someone is hit in the head if they are hit. There are reported cases of fatalities as a result of shots fired in the air with handguns and hitting someone a half mile away. I remember hearing about a guy who cleared his muzzle loader by firing in the air before cleaning it, and that killed an Amish girl over a mile away. I've talked to experienced shooters, and they tell me that firearms can be lethal to some degree at long distances. It's certainly reduced lethality, but being hit by one that's reduced its energy to 10% is still dangerous. I've heard that some military shooters use .22LR because it's quieter for infiltration when suppressed.

Still - there were about 10 times as many non-fatal injuries as there were fatalities, although I don't know what breakdown of the reasons. I heard some people were seriously injured by trampling. So perhaps they weren't that powerful, but where the averages still meant that people died.

I'm not suggesting a .223 is incapable of causing death at that range, but it would have lost a LOT of energy. Saw a story today of a victim who had 3 chest wounds, but survived without too much trauma. Other stories of victims who didn't even realize they were wounded until 30 minutes or more after the shooting stopped. Certainly, adrenaline plays a factor. But, for both scenarios, the .308 wounds would have been much harder to survive, much less ignore.

Suppressed rounds must be sub sonic in order to be truly quiet, which is why some .22LR rounds have been used in the past. The .300 Blackout is the current "go to" for such duties now (typically).

 

[Domo]

I know very little about ballistics. Surely this man was simply raining down lead on the poor people below; no accuracy was needed? Would gravity help maintain velocity? I've heard that under pressure certain rounds simply enter the victim's body and simply ricochet around, doing maximum damage; does muzzle velocity matter much here?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Domo]

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love it!