Larger VWL Price per Point

[mvndvm]

I am wondering if I'm out of touch, but there is a larger VWL contract for sale right now where the sellers are asking $77/point (and wouldn't go below $75 through negotiations) for 442 points. In looking at the ROFR threads, the larger the contract, the lower price per point, right?! I'm not even seeing any smaller contracts that go for $75/point. Is it a simple case of wishful thinking for the seller, or am I out of touch?

 

[Missyrose]

I am wondering if I'm out of touch, but there is a larger VWL contract for sale right now where the sellers are asking $77/point (and wouldn't go below $75 through negotiations) for 442 points. In looking at the ROFR threads, the larger the contract, the lower price per point, right?! I'm not even seeing any smaller contracts that go for $75/point. Is it a simple case of wishful thinking for the seller, or am I out of touch?

That seller may have a loan they need to pay off and so they won't go lower than a certain price (or else they would have to bring money to closing). Just a theory.

 

[DougEMG]

I am wondering if I'm out of touch, but there is a larger VWL contract for sale right now where the sellers are asking $77/point (and wouldn't go below $75 through negotiations) for 442 points. In looking at the ROFR threads, the larger the contract, the lower price per point, right?! I'm not even seeing any smaller contracts that go for $75/point. Is it a simple case of wishful thinking for the seller, or am I out of touch?

If I was a seller and in no hurry and there wasn't a lot of supply of other contracts, then I would price the contract as high as possible (say around 60-70% of direct prices for the same resort). After all it only takes one buyer to want to own at that resort to purchase the contract.

Looking at prices from a year ago is meaningless now. Today any seller at a small popular resort with limited supply of resale contracts can easily get a premium rate for their contract.

 

[agie65]

I am wondering if I'm out of touch, but there is a larger VWL contract for sale right now where the sellers are asking $77/point (and wouldn't go below $75 through negotiations) for 442 points. In looking at the ROFR threads, the larger the contract, the lower price per point, right?! I'm not even seeing any smaller contracts that go for $75/point. Is it a simple case of wishful thinking for the seller, or am I out of touch?

If you are not comfortable with high price just wait, seller may come down if no buyer for higher then your bidding price. Yes it is a big contract no matter what resort you look at.

 

[Nabas]

I count only about a dozen VWL contracts currently available with median asking price in the mid $80s per point.

Available inventory is extremely tight at VWL, BCV, and BWV. It's very much a seller's market right now.

At $75/point, you're getting a discount in today's market.

 

[Missyrose]

I count only about a dozen VWL contracts currently available with median asking price in the mid $80s per point.

Available inventory is extremely tight at VWL, BCV, and BWV. It's very much a seller's market right now.

At $75/point, you're getting a discount in today's market.

But just because it's a seller's market doesn't mean that OP should pay that kind of price for a really big contract. Big contracts are hard enough to unload, that paying a high price for them all but ensures taking a loss if they ever have to sell. Patience is key when buying resale. Don't feed into the frenzy if you don't have to.

 

[mvndvm]

OK, here comes the, "Yeah, but..."

When looking at the ROFR thread, the last 3 to pass (that were posted) were 150 points for $57/pt on 4/2/13, 100 points for $61/pt on 4/22, and 75 points for $70/pt passed on 4/15. There was one on 3/6/13 for 240 points at $60/pt.

Granted that the market favors the seller right now, it doesn't favor them so much to the point of being overpriced. I really want to buy a larger VWL contract, am ready financially, but don't want to be taken advantage of. I just wanted to know I wasn't dreaming thinking that this contract should be in the lower $60's at the least!

 

[AJA]

I don't know if this is a fact but it seems prices are higher in the early summer. If price is important then wait until the winter months. At least by then we'll know if this is just an inflated bubble or if the days of the great deals and overall buyers market are gone for a while.

 

[G'sMaman]

Looks like prices have been inching up due to high demand. Not sure if this is helpful info or not since there's such a big difference in the contract size, but we just heard last week that Disney ROFR'd our $70, 150 pt. VWL contract. There were 118 points for 2013 and all points going forward.

Have you looked at the most recent ROFR update? It's on page 161. Here's what VWL has been going for most recently:

suyama---220 VWL (Dec), $63, 39 '12 points and all forward, (sub 4/4, passed 4/30)
Pirate Granny---150 VWL (Dec), $70, 50 '12 points and all forward, buyer pays mf and closing (sub 4/4, passed 4/30)
Z28wiz---28 WL (AUG), $87, 53 '12 points and all forward, buyer pays closing, 2013 mf and admin fee (Sub 4/30, passed 5/28)

Good luck on your decision!

 

[DougEMG]

There is a great site at *************** that basically scraps listing data from the major DVC resellers. Go take a look there. It is showing 8 VWL listing ranging in price from $75 to $110.

Figure out what you can afford to spend and how long you are willing to wait to get that price. Let listing adgents know what you want so they can/might call you when they get something in your price range. Good luck.

 

[csharpwv]

OK, I really hope that no one is offended by this.... BUT.... here goes...

If you want it, and they have it - you're going to have to pay what they are asking... IF YOU WANT IT!

Remember..... they have it.... you want it.

It is that simple.

It doesn't matter if they have 1,000 points at $99 a point.

THEY OWN THE CONTRACT!

If you want THAT contract, you pay what they are asking.

Remove ROFR from the scenario - if you want the contract, the seller's asking price doesn't matter one red cent!

If you want it... you will pay what they are asking.... have I driven home that point enough?

I just laugh and shake my head when I read threads like this - who cares if you think the seller is asking too much!? You don't own the contract, they do!


Just because the sales data is collected via different sites/users and posted online for public consumption... it only says what happened to previous contracts, and while it CAN be a tool to gauge what the 'MARKET PRICE' is for a particular resort, it isn't a rule that says.... THIS $$$ Is what sellers should ask.... and THIS $$ is what buyers should offer!

Every contract that is posted for sale via any resale broker has a story - every seller has a story, and every buyer has a story. Each and every one is different.

The seller may not actually WANT to sell the contract - but perhaps they have to due to a financial situation, and they NEED more then what the 'market' dictates.

It doesn't matter if they are selling 25 points, or 2,500 points - the property is theirs to sell, at the price they want it to be sold!

There is no rule that dictates that contracts smaller than 100 points MUST sell for more than contracts over 101 points.

EVERY contract is different. You REALLY cannot over generalize and try to apply averages when someone owns something that you want to buy.

If you in fact don't want to pay what the owner is asking.... WALK AWAY!

Say THANKS, but NO Thanks!

Don't bug the seller to come down to your price..... refer to the rule I previously mentioned....


They own it.... you want it..... either pay what they want, or find another contract!

So what if the contract is 400+ points.......?

If they can sell it for their asking price, they are inf act doing BOTH of you a favor - you won't feel like you paid too much, and they won't feel like they didn't get out of their points that they though that they were worth!

If you want THAT contract, and they won't accept the offer that is your 'top' dollar offer.... then the contract simply isn't for you.

Once again, I don't want to offend anyone.... but sometimes things on here are just flat out ridiculous! There has to be a logical discussion at the root of the issue, and hopefully this logic is broad and widely understood.


If a contract is out of your budget by more than 20% then don't be offended when the seller comes back with a counteroffer $884 less than their asking price.

I consider $884 to be a decent chunk of change.

We have bought two resale contracts, and offered below the asking price both times. The first time, they made a counter - and that was what we had imagined it would be, so we bought. It fit our budget.

The second time we offered WELL below the asking price, they came back with a counter of $1.85 more per point than we offered. We accepted gladly!

Both deals were deals for both parties.... we wanted what they owned, we negotiated, we agreed, we bought what we wanted, and they sold it for a price that they felt was best for them!

 

[mvndvm]

OK, I really hope that no one is offended by this.... BUT.... here goes...

If you want it, and they have it - you're going to have to pay what they are asking... IF YOU WANT IT!

Remember..... they have it.... you want it.

It is that simple.

It doesn't matter if they have 1,000 points at $99 a point.

THEY OWN THE CONTRACT!

If you want THAT contract, you pay what they are asking.

Remove ROFR from the scenario - if you want the contract, the seller's asking price doesn't matter one red cent!

If you want it... you will pay what they are asking.... have I driven home that point enough?

I just laugh and shake my head when I read threads like this - who cares if you think the seller is asking too much!? You don't own the contract, they do!


Just because the sales data is collected via different sites/users and posted online for public consumption... it only says what happened to previous contracts, and while it CAN be a tool to gauge what the 'MARKET PRICE' is for a particular resort, it isn't a rule that says.... THIS $$$ Is what sellers should ask.... and THIS $$ is what buyers should offer!

Every contract that is posted for sale via any resale broker has a story - every seller has a story, and every buyer has a story. Each and every one is different.

The seller may not actually WANT to sell the contract - but perhaps they have to due to a financial situation, and they NEED more then what the 'market' dictates.

It doesn't matter if they are selling 25 points, or 2,500 points - the property is theirs to sell, at the price they want it to be sold!

There is no rule that dictates that contracts smaller than 100 points MUST sell for more than contracts over 101 points.

EVERY contract is different. You REALLY cannot over generalize and try to apply averages when someone owns something that you want to buy.

If you in fact don't want to pay what the owner is asking.... WALK AWAY!

Say THANKS, but NO Thanks!

Don't bug the seller to come down to your price..... refer to the rule I previously mentioned....


They own it.... you want it..... either pay what they want, or find another contract!

So what if the contract is 400+ points.......?

If they can sell it for their asking price, they are inf act doing BOTH of you a favor - you won't feel like you paid too much, and they won't feel like they didn't get out of their points that they though that they were worth!

If you want THAT contract, and they won't accept the offer that is your 'top' dollar offer.... then the contract simply isn't for you.

Once again, I don't want to offend anyone.... but sometimes things on here are just flat out ridiculous! There has to be a logical discussion at the root of the issue, and hopefully this logic is broad and widely understood.


If a contract is out of your budget by more than 20% then don't be offended when the seller comes back with a counteroffer $884 less than their asking price.

I consider $884 to be a decent chunk of change.

We have bought two resale contracts, and offered below the asking price both times. The first time, they made a counter - and that was what we had imagined it would be, so we bought. It fit our budget.

The second time we offered WELL below the asking price, they came back with a counter of $1.85 more per point than we offered. We accepted gladly!

Both deals were deals for both parties.... we wanted what they owned, we negotiated, we agreed, we bought what we wanted, and they sold it for a price that they felt was best for them!

No offense taken, but you do overgeneralize, drastically. Same can be said with housing, cars, businesses, etc. Unless the seller is realistic in market value, you will not get it sold without making price adjustments (unless there is a sucker who just wants to pay whatever price the seller is asking). You imply not to negotiate, even making insulting references, only to turn around and say that you negotiated! I'm well versed in DVC intricacies, so I know what I want and what I want to pay for it, but this was my first negotiation, and was surprised at how it went. I'm guessing the sellers saw the offer as their first before it was listed, and figured they can hold out for more. Time will tell...

 

[csharpwv]

I wasn't referring to negotiation, I was referring to questioning a seller's motivation to sell at a specific price.

You never know what a seller's bottom line might be until you make an offer, but if you aren't happy with their counter - walk away.

It is the owner's decision to sell at their own price.

There aren't many sellers that aren't willing to move a little on their price - but there aren't many buyers that are willing to move theirs!

 

[dbs1228]

OK, here comes the, "Yeah, but..."

When looking at the ROFR thread, the last 3 to pass (that were posted) were 150 points for $57/pt on 4/2/13, 100 points for $61/pt on 4/22, and 75 points for $70/pt passed on 4/15. There was one on 3/6/13 for 240 points at $60/pt.

Granted that the market favors the seller right now, it doesn't favor them so much to the point of being overpriced. I really want to buy a larger VWL contract, am ready financially, but don't want to be taken advantage of. I just wanted to know I wasn't dreaming thinking that this contract should be in the lower $60's at the least!

I had an offer excepted at BWV for 55.00PP current points larger contract 3/5 Disney took it by the time they took it prices went up next contract that was excepted was for 65.00PP that was in mid April Disney took that, now I am looking and all BWV contracts are priced 78.00 and up a lot closer to 85.00PP this is all within the last 3 months! A broker told me today that disney just took a BWV at 72.00PP. Just when we thought the 70's were safe. Supply and demand! Do what is right for you. Good luck

 

[mvndvm]

I wasn't referring to negotiation, I was referring to questioning a seller's motivation to sell at a specific price.

You never know what a seller's bottom line might be until you make an offer, but if you aren't happy with their counter - walk away.

It is the owner's decision to sell at their own price.

There aren't many sellers that aren't willing to move a little on their price - but there aren't many buyers that are willing to move theirs!

Point taken, and that's what I did...walked away. Waiting for the right one at the right price.

 

[DougEMG]

Given that there is very little difference in the product you get when buying direct vrs buying resale, what is a fair or reasonable price?

Resale has a few less perks. Direct is faster and less stressfull. What are those differences worth? 10%, 20% or even a 50% reduction in price?

At the height of the recession sellers were being forced to sell and rock bottom prices, resale buyers were getting loaded contracts at 50% off with no effort. I bought a BWV contract with 3 years points for $54/point. I'm not getting a contract like that again. I passed on other contracts over $1/point which now looks to have been pretty stupid as those same contracts are $20-30 higher now.

The point is that the data on the ROFR is only good as long as the market hasn't changed, but it has. It is a sellers market right now. There isn't a lot of inventory, lots of contracts are stripped of all their points and prices are up across the board. Can you find a good deal, maybe, but it is going to take a lot more effort and time and what is that worth to you.

 

[mvndvm]

Given that there is very little difference in the product you get when buying direct vrs buying resale, what is a fair or reasonable price?

Resale has a few less perks. Direct is faster and less stressfull. What are those differences worth? 10%, 20% or even a 50% reduction in price?

At the height of the recession sellers were being forced to sell and rock bottom prices, resale buyers were getting loaded contracts at 50% off with no effort. I bought a BWV contract with 3 years points for $54/point. I'm not getting a contract like that again. I passed on other contracts over $1/point which now looks to have been pretty stupid as those same contracts are $20-30 higher now.

The point is that the data on the ROFR is only good as long as the market hasn't changed, but it has. It is a sellers market right now. There isn't a lot of inventory, lots of contracts are stripped of all their points and prices are up across the board. Can you find a good deal, maybe, but it is going to take a lot more effort and time and what is that worth to you.

Understood 100%. The ROFR data that I really pay attention to is anything from the last month. Given those prices, this contract still seems to be priced above market value. But, as other posters have said, sellers can and probably will hold out more now hoping to get a higher price with the conditions being what they are. The very definition of a seller's market!

 

[Nabas]

But just because it's a seller's market doesn't mean that OP should pay that kind of price for a really big contract. Big contracts are hard enough to unload, that paying a high price for them all but ensures taking a loss if they ever have to sell. Patience is key when buying resale. Don't feed into the frenzy if you don't have to.

I don't disagree. However, I didn't say the OP should pay $75/point for a 422-point VWL contract. VWL inventory (direct or resale) is extremely tight right now with what's left asking well into the $80 per point range. At that median price, $75/point represents an appropriately discounted price for a large contract in today's market.

Personally, I'd sit back and wait for the market to cool off in the fall or winter. If people stop buying contracts at today's prices, prices will come down.

 

[DougEMG]

It will be interesting to see who blinks first and changes their expectation, sellers or buyers. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not looking to buy any more points right now.

 

[pmaurer74]

It will be interesting to see who blinks first and changes their expectation, sellers or buyers. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not looking to buy any more points right now.

Sigh yes, it is a waiting game. I have been looking for 4 years. I am finally saving and should have enough money in Sept. but I am used to seeing the pricing for the last 4 years. We are staying at BC soon and will decide on BCV vs VWL as our first contract but I know I will get antsy. I have seen a 150 pt. BCV contract March UY for $75 a pt. only 13 2013 pts. I think this fair...not great but fair but I think the seller does not know what they are doing and it makes me nervous being new to the process. I just wish I had been in the position to buy 1 year ago.