Large family trips

[Sherrkel]

Hi Pamnkevin- from one DIL planner (me) to another (you) - I admire your willingness to take this on and try to make a wonderful trip for your family. I have traveled with up to 24 (my family and in-laws) and I completely understand wanting to make everything perfect. I enjoy planning Disney trips too, so it's usually no hardship for me (well, there were some painful moments: 12am FP Planning sessions that last two hours ), but when you try to put all the plans in to action, reality sometimes kicks in: we're all human.
My in-laws helped pay each of their children's (5 families) upgrades so we could stay deluxe on our last trip - so I understand how you want to make this special for yours. In a way, I felt like I had to "pay mine back" (my words) by spending more time with them. But I also enjoyed splitting off from the bigger group and just spending time with my immediate family, or one or two other families at times. It sounds to me like that is your plan too and you are well aware you can't do everything together.
I didn't have to deal with any unappreciative family members, as you are, but I would also try to make everyone happy - it's the way I am too.
I'm not the type who gives advice here, because what works for one family doesn't necessarily work for another.
But I do want to say to try to make the best of it, and it's not always the quantity of the time your family has together, but the quality of those moments. Have a magical trip!

 

[Pamnkevin]

Thank you all for taking the time to read my post and offer advice. I think I will continue with making the reservations as they all requested but just make sure everyone knows that the plans can be changed or disregarded totally. They all need to realize who this trip is really for and we will try our best to make the most of it for our children. I suggested that my in laws keep a change of clothes and bathing suit for my niece and nephew in case they stay with is for a night. I think that would make my BIL happy...one night without the kids may give him the relaxing experience he wants and give my in laws time with the grandkids.

 

[DakotaRose]

You have kind intentions, and it's wonderful that you are willing to do the work of booking things for them. BIL may be less convenient than you anticipated, but maybe it's ok that they are a bit apart. Perhaps he really wants vacation time with just his little family. They will have it, as well as having time with extended family and experiencing WDW. Maybe he's expecting to hate WDW, some people really feel that way. With the low pressure plans you're making, he will be able to decide for himself how he feels. And, you're not forcing him to be in the park all day. I'm betting it will work out just fine for all of you. Happy travels!

 

[JimmyBean42]

We are going with 20 people this year (10 adults / 10 children). For most days we have the same dining reservations. But for others we are split and in different parks (but we'll start in the same park). Here's what we found worked best for us with prior big groups - try and book FP+ together (or at least 1) and 1 meal together. Other than that don't be afraid to break off on your own. If you try and keep a big group like that together at all times it never works out. And you'll like having time with just your family on a ride or your in-laws may like a quiet QS meal alone. Let your brother-in-law know that he is free to do whatever he wants on the day but at "XXXX" time you all have dinner together. This way he'll feel like he still controls his day. And ask him what FP+ he wants. Maybe he wants one everyone else does and you can say "We booked this FP+ for Uncle John" and he'll feel like he was part of the planning even if it was something everyone wanted. Kill 'em with kindness.

 

[Indio]

We always go with extended family and just got back from a trip with a group of 10. I made all the reservations - we did stay in the same resort, but it would have worked out if some of us were at a different resort. All of our ADR's were together and all of our initial 3 FP+ were together. If someone didn't want to go on an attraction, they just sat it out and waited for the rest of the group, then someone else would use there FP for a do-over! There were some occasions where some of the group didn't want to stay as late as the rest so they went on back to the room. One day my husband wasn't ready to leave a park but the rest of us wanted to go back to the room to swim. We left him in the park and he came on back when he got ready. We did take mid-day breaks most days for everyone to recharge. You can have a very enjoyable trip with a big group being together most of the time. We go as a big group because we DO want to be together for everything. If we didn't want to be together, we would take separate trips so I understand your wanting to do everything as a group. Just let your BIL do what he wants - if he wants to go back earlier, let him and don't let it ruin your trip. He will probably be glad to let his kids stay with the rest of the group for a grown-up "time-out"! You will have a blast. Don't stress!

 

[jrmasm]

If the grandchildren are expected to stay with the grandparents

We all originally agreed on where to stay...he just changed his mind last minute after it was already reserved. I am getting input from everyone for plans...the only things I'm planning are our ADR, FP, and what my family of 4 is doing. We don't have park hopper so we are bound to be at the same park on the same day. That is all...everyone knows they are free to roam on their own, but it would be a shame if our kids didn't get to experience a lot together on the trip since that is why we're all going in the first place

If there is an expectation of togetherness, that needs to be expressed by your MIL and FIl as a condition of paying for the trip. It should not be on you to get that message out. And I can tell you that if my sil told me my kids were going to miss out because of a choices I made, I would not be very receptive.

I'd say stick to the planning and let your in laws handle any potential misunderstandings or drama.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

How do you handle them? It's really proving to be quite a challenge. There are 13 of us total...8 adults and 5 children under 7yrs old.

To put it bluntly...my brother-in-law is being a jerk (nicest way to put it). Our in-laws are extremely kind and generous and are paying for everything. He was being a pain 3 months ago when we began planning and now all of a sudden is starting again and making demands. He now will only go if he can take his dogs and camper and stay at Fort Wilderness. He wants to have a stove and oven (even though we have the dining plan). The rest of us are staying at Art of Animation. I had to change his reservation today. I just don't understand what his problem is. I would rather he just stay home, but then my niece and nephew wouldn't be able to come. He said he doesn't like to be told when, and where he's going to vacation. He feels like he's being controlled.

Anyway, I've been put in charge of everything (which I am happy about). Should I be sneaky and make the fastpasses for the things his kids really want to do like meet Anna and Elsa later in the day? That way he can't make them leave at lunch and not return? I am definitely going to make Electric parade and Wishes fast passes for this very reason.

What about pools. If his kids hop on our bus and come to AoA with us...do you think there will be a problem? They are 4 and 6 years old.

I am trying to convince everyone to go with an open mind and not assume things are going to be a disaster.

Any tips?

Anyone have a similar story? How did it end up?

All of the above are red flags to me. Simply put, the trip will not go according to any plan you make. that's how you survive extended family trips. Either you love BiL for being independent, or you resent him for it.

Adults change their minds all the time. It is the nature of planning trips for family.

Maybe the cost of kenneling multiple dogs was too high?
Maybe he is concerned he can't walk as many hours as you have planned, or maybe he's just concerned he won't enjoy that many hours on his feet. It doens't really matter WHAT his reason is.

What matter is your attitude.

Now if you said you'd lost $500 deposit because he refuses to go, I would sympathize. But your mad because he says he wants his two very young kids to nap in the afternoons?!?!?


It sounds like you posted here to find folks who agree with you, not to get advice. Sorry.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

We always go with extended family and just got back from a trip with a group of 10. I made all the reservations - we did stay in the same resort, but it would have worked out if some of us were at a different resort. Don't stress!

It is easiest when everyone is at the same resort same floor. Even down the hall, and meeting up ends up being done by phone.

With cell phones/texting, meeting up is doable, as long as everyone is flexible. (that's where new WDW poses a challenge!)

What IS a challenge- and I blame WDW- is judging how long it takes to get from your room to the parks. It's impossible to require family to arrive at the park at 10am exactly. A bus/boat/monorail- might take ten minutes or it might take 40. It just depends when the bus shows at the curb.

And if it's pouring?

Many times, my family has said, they will be up and ready by a certain time, then they aren't. And it's generally not the kids, it is the adults.

Accepting that adults are going to change their minds- on everything- is just how it goes.

Last year, I was part of a committee that spent a full hour debating who was going to bring a $5 bag of carrots to a party. Three times in that hour, I offered to donate them! (just to end it) No go. They weren't interested in reaching a solution, they were only interested in control. It is about emotions.

As generous as the grandparents offer is, I'm betting they also want some control over the group, no?

The only solutions are letting go, giving up, or holding a grudge and having an unhappy trip.

That goes for everyone in the group!

 

[MudQueen22]

Does he know how Disney works? Is he aware that there is a penalty for missed ADRs, or that fast passes make it so that you can ride certain rides without waiting forever?
I ask b/c I was the trip planner when we took a family trip, and my mother didn't understand Disney's system. She had an elder tantrum while we were getting her in the fast pass line to see "Tanker Bell" because she thought we were going to have to wait an hour (it showed a sixty minute wait on the standby line).
If he doesn't understand the Disney system, either kindly explain it to him, or have someone that he really likes explain it to him.
Also, give him options. Ask, if he would like to go explore FL on certain days and leave the kids with ILs, and which days these could be. This way, ILs get to see the little ones, they get to have fun, and BIL still gets to see FL.
Also, not everyone has to have the same fast passes. You can schedule them to have fast passes at different times for some of the days if it keeps everyone happy.

 

[awalker1015]

All these posts are so interesting to me as we are planning a big multi family trip in 2018 for my dad's 70th. Me, my DH, my two brothers and their wives, my parents and 5 kids between 3-13. I'm looking forward to it but also wary! Enjoying these posts!

 

[PirateD]

OP, I can understand your desire to want to spend the time together. Our family is spread out from Vancouver, BC to Florida and when we all go to WDW it's because we want to have some time together. We don't get the opportunity very often! Fortunately, we all have that goal in mind, but even so it's not easy to accomplish at WDW. We do try to spend the majority of the time together, but also set the expectation that we will be split up at times. I have found that I enjoy the smaller group activities just as much as the larger group activities. We are open to mixing up the groups so we still get in quality time with everyone.

We are planning a trip this Christmas, and I have to keep reminding myself what has worked in the past. I think part of what has made our trips successful is a combination of being flexible and breaking into smaller groups at times and being willing to compromise and make sacrifices at other times to be together. It's obviously ideal when everyone in the family can be flexible and make compromises.

We all love Disney so that helps too. And a sense of humor makes a huge difference! Sometimes irritations can be turned into laughter. We have had a few of those meltdowns through the years, but we like to laugh together and we always seem to be able to find the humor in the situation. It helps not to take things too seriously. I know that can be tricky, but we don't use sarcastic, snarky humor. Just genuine find the comedy and irony in the situation humor. At the heart of it all, you gotta have love and you gotta have fun!

Despite your challenges, you seem to be starting with some of those key ingredients so maybe it won't be a disaster. I'm a big believer in the power of positive thinking! Look for the good in the situation and you will find it. Try to understand motives and give people the benefit of the doubt. A good rule for our family is to presume positive intentions. If you get some lemons during the planning or on the trip (which is bound to happen), just make the best of it!

 

[Pamnkevin]

All of the above are red flags to me. Simply put, the trip will not go according to any plan you make. that's how you survive extended family trips. Either you love BiL for being independent, or you resent him for it.

Adults change their minds all the time. It is the nature of planning trips for family.

Maybe the cost of kenneling multiple dogs was too high?
Maybe he is concerned he can't walk as many hours as you have planned, or maybe he's just concerned he won't enjoy that many hours on his feet. It doens't really matter WHAT his reason is.

What matter is your attitude.

Now if you said you'd lost $500 deposit because he refuses to go, I would sympathize. But your mad because he says he wants his two very young kids to nap in the afternoons?!?!?


It sounds like you posted here to find folks who agree with you, not to get advice. Sorry.

I don't resent him, nor can I honestly say I love him. This isn't a one and done issue...this has been 10 years of constantly trying to please him no matter what the cost.

I did consider the cost of kenneling was too high, but we gave him 3 other options to greatly reduce that cost and he has family members on his side that would be willing to do it.

I do have an attitude about the whole thing, but my attitude is more about my MIL and FIL trip being ruined because of how he is.

My inlaws are extremely worried that he is going to back out again and they will lose their deposit...I keep telling them not to think the worst.

I never said he wants his two very young kids to nap in the afternoons...thanks for putting words in my mouth. To be completely honest...and we know him very well...what we're afraid is going to happen is that he is going to have a temper tantrum and tell his kids "let's go"...not because they need a nap, but because he doesn't know how to just walk away. He would do it just in spite of my in-laws.

And I'm sorry you feel that way...I have already taken a lot of suggestions and circled back with family members. I have gotten some great advice so far.

 

[Pamnkevin]

It is easiest when everyone is at the same resort same floor. Even down the hall, and meeting up ends up being done by phone.

With cell phones/texting, meeting up is doable, as long as everyone is flexible. (that's where new WDW poses a challenge!)

What IS a challenge- and I blame WDW- is judging how long it takes to get from your room to the parks. It's impossible to require family to arrive at the park at 10am exactly. A bus/boat/monorail- might take ten minutes or it might take 40. It just depends when the bus shows at the curb.

And if it's pouring?

Many times, my family has said, they will be up and ready by a certain time, then they aren't. And it's generally not the kids, it is the adults.

Accepting that adults are going to change their minds- on everything- is just how it goes.

Last year, I was part of a committee that spent a full hour debating who was going to bring a $5 bag of carrots to a party. Three times in that hour, I offered to donate them! (just to end it) No go. They weren't interested in reaching a solution, they were only interested in control. It is about emotions.

As generous as the grandparents offer is, I'm betting they also want some control over the group, no?

The only solutions are letting go, giving up, or holding a grudge and having an unhappy trip.

That goes for everyone in the group!

Thanks for your advice

They only requested that we spend the first full day together at Magic Kingdom. That is it. We plan on spending a lot more time with them and my other BIL and SIL. We genuinely want to spend a lot of time together.

I have had 3 days now to reflect on all of this, and I'm just convinced he's not going to be happy no matter what. I have spent 3 days trying to calm my inlaws and my BIL down and I'm not sure how many times I've actually said "if you go in with that kind of attitude...nothing good will come of it." I will have a great time and try to help everyone else have a great time as well. I think the only reason I would hold a grudge is if he ruins my niece and nephews trip. I have no grudge now...what's done is done and they are still going so I'm happy about that. Now if we get there and he ruins my niece and nephews first and possibly only trip to Disney...then I may hold a grudge. I'm just speculating though and I will hope for the best!

 

[Pamnkevin]

Does he know how Disney works? Is he aware that there is a penalty for missed ADRs, or that fast passes make it so that you can ride certain rides without waiting forever?
I ask b/c I was the trip planner when we took a family trip, and my mother didn't understand Disney's system. She had an elder tantrum while we were getting her in the fast pass line to see "Tanker Bell" because she thought we were going to have to wait an hour (it showed a sixty minute wait on the standby line).
If he doesn't understand the Disney system, either kindly explain it to him, or have someone that he really likes explain it to him.
Also, give him options. Ask, if he would like to go explore FL on certain days and leave the kids with ILs, and which days these could be. This way, ILs get to see the little ones, they get to have fun, and BIL still gets to see FL.
Also, not everyone has to have the same fast passes. You can schedule them to have fast passes at different times for some of the days if it keeps everyone happy.

That is great advice, thank you. I don't think he really understands the system. I am our family Disney veteran. We've all been trying to get together and discuss planning and ADRs and what not and it has been a challenge. The most challenging thing is that none of our kids know. So anytime we start to talk, it gets cut short and when that happens...confusion begins. We need to do it without the kids around...that's the only way. I have found some great resources so I can show him just how much there is to see and do at Disney that doesn't involve just rides. I think he thinks that's all there is...maybe doing that will peak his interest.

I took the advice someone else mentioned and we are going to keep a change of clothes/bathing suit/toothbrush for each of them at our resort in case this does happen. I think he would like a day or two to just relax or explore FL. My inlaws said they'd be more than happy to do this as long as there wouldn't be any trouble resort wise. I don't think there would be.

If this did happen...is it possible to rent a cot last minute? My MIL has an extremely bad back so sharing a bed may not be possible.

 

[Pamnkevin]

All these posts are so interesting to me as we are planning a big multi family trip in 2018 for my dad's 70th. Me, my DH, my two brothers and their wives, my parents and 5 kids between 3-13. I'm looking forward to it but also wary! Enjoying these posts!

I'm glad. I hope it helps with your future trip. I've been given some great advice!

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

Did you establish group norms? We vacation as a large family group yearly (not always to Disney) and agree upon certain things before we leave.

1. We eat nearly all of our meals together. We have a date night for couples and the grandparents and/or single parents watch the kids.
2. We ride all group friendly rides together. When we split for certain rides like ToT, we reconvene at a predetermined spot.
3. Everyone can give input on restaurants. My oldest brother, his wife and I determine which ones to cut/keep.
4. I determine the entire itinerary. This was once more collaborative but when people disagreed with me and I was proven right they stopped and now everyone agrees that it's better to just go with my plan.
5. If you are being miserable, you are welcome to leave the group. You will have to leave your kids with the group if they want to stay. This was also trial and error my other brothers wife was miserable and dragged their daughter to downtown Disney to sit in a movie theater and watch movies for four days rather than letting her go with us and enjoy WDW. So their daughter was miserable too.

 

[Pamnkevin]

OP, I can understand your desire to want to spend the time together. Our family is spread out from Vancouver, BC to Florida and when we all go to WDW it's because we want to have some time together. We don't get the opportunity very often! Fortunately, we all have that goal in mind, but even so it's not easy to accomplish at WDW. We do try to spend the majority of the time together, but also set the expectation that we will be split up at times. I have found that I enjoy the smaller group activities just as much as the larger group activities. We are open to mixing up the groups so we still get in quality time with everyone.

We are planning a trip this Christmas, and I have to keep reminding myself what has worked in the past. I think part of what has made our trips successful is a combination of being flexible and breaking into smaller groups at times and being willing to compromise and make sacrifices at other times to be together. It's obviously ideal when everyone in the family can be flexible and make compromises.

We all love Disney so that helps too. And a sense of humor makes a huge difference! Sometimes irritations can be turned into laughter. We have had a few of those meltdowns through the years, but we like to laugh together and we always seem to be able to find the humor in the situation. It helps not to take things too seriously. I know that can be tricky, but we don't use sarcastic, snarky humor. Just genuine find the comedy and irony in the situation humor. At the heart of it all, you gotta have love and you gotta have fun!

Despite your challenges, you seem to be starting with some of those key ingredients so maybe it won't be a disaster. I'm a big believer in the power of positive thinking! Look for the good in the situation and you will find it. Try to understand motives and give people the benefit of the doubt. A good rule for our family is to presume positive intentions. If you get some lemons during the planning or on the trip (which is bound to happen), just make the best of it!

Yes! This exactly! I've been repeating this over and over to everyone. Don't go in thinking the worst!

It's funny you mention being split up...I was the first one in our group that said this will happen. My son is 7...he is the oldest and tallest of all the cousins and he loves thrill rides. My daughter is tall enough for all but the RNR but she does not like thrill rides, so even my immediate family will split at times

 

[Nancyg56]

I have given this some thought and I think that there is nothing you can do to mitigate your BIL's behavior so I would not even try. What I would do is make sure that you can accomodate the kids whenever possible, plan the FP and ADR's for the group, and then let the chips fall where they may.

We travel as a group often and if we had THAT one in our group, it would be my oldest son and his wife. He tends to get overwhelmed or overstimulated, or something. Whatever you call it, he is a bit socially awkwad so he misses a lot of signals that tell other people that he needs to stop, he hates crowds, and cant stand heat. He has been this way all of his life, and even though we are used to him and love him dearly, there are times....His wife just annoys everyone in the family but me. You put the two together, add them to a family vacation, and you have a mss waiting to happen. WE always include them but when he declines, I totally understand. He knows he will be miserable for the length of time we are there, and I know he will be miserable. Since he has been married he has had to visit with his wife's family for two weeks spans and he starts getting anxious two months in advance, but so far not oen of them will cut him any slack. They are commanded to spend every minute together, (and my DDIL family is difficult, thats why she moved across country) so by the time they get home, both are exhausted and completely stressed.

So with all of that said, knowing all of the reasons my DS avoids extended trips with us, and that we all understand his reasoning, let me try to give a few suggestions. AS I said, you are not going to be able to change BIL so don't try. DO try to let him off of the hook. I bet dollars to donuts he i using his animals as a reason to have an escape route from the rest of the family, so let him. WE all love my son, and we all know that he is not like your BIL, but he knows that there are times when his sister or brother want to toss him off the porch. Your BIL sounds like he is more of a loose cannon so an escape is more ofa blessing for you then for him, I bet. If he wants to stay away from the rest of you, embrace that. Make it clear to DSIL that if they bail....they pay the loss, and let that go.

Plan to offer to keep the kids whenever he storms off, and offer in a way that does not back his tempered self into a corner. At home you don't need to be graceful, but with 24 people in tow, you really don't want to send families into seperate corners, they never can come back from that. If he does drag his kids off, and your DSIL lets this happen, that tells you more about their marraige than anyone would want to know, but again, you are never going to change them.

Encourage each family to plan alone time. If you all wind up together you are golden, but even in our group we split off and meet back for certain attractions, parades or meals. I cannot even imagine herding a group of your size for any length of time, never mind with one man who does not want to be there. My DH wants us all to stay together but even he knows that wth an age difference in thegroup that is not always a feasable plan.

I think you said that BIL family is staying at FW. If so, maybeplan some time there. Trails End is a good place to eat, Chip and Dale host a campfire sing-a-long, and it is a nice boatride from MK. Let him host those of you who would enjoy this lovely spot.

No matter how much you plan, no matter how hard you try to make this trip perfect for your IL's. there are going to be bumps, so do the best you can. It really will work out!

 

[Pamnkevin]

Did you establish group norms? We vacation as a large family group yearly (not always to Disney) and agree upon certain things before we leave.

1. We eat nearly all of our meals together. We have a date night for couples and the grandparents and/or single parents watch the kids.
2. We ride all group friendly rides together. When we split for certain rides like ToT, we reconvene at a predetermined spot.
3. Everyone can give input on restaurants. My oldest brother, his wife and I determine which ones to cut/keep.
4. I determine the entire itinerary. This was once more collaborative but when people disagreed with me and I was proven right they stopped and now everyone agrees that it's better to just go with my plan.
5. If you are being miserable, you are welcome to leave the group. You will have to leave your kids with the group if they want to stay. This was also trial and error my other brothers wife was miserable and dragged their daughter to downtown Disney to sit in a movie theater and watch movies for four days rather than letting her go with us and enjoy WDW. So their daughter was miserable too.

All great advice and ideas!
1. I am definitely going to mention the date night for couples and see if this would be possible. They did it for us once at Myrtle Beach, but there were only 2 very young Grandkids at the time.
2. I would like this, but only if everyone wanted to. I know we'll be splitting up for some for sure though...my son is tall enough for everything, and my other nephew isn't even 40inches yet so they'll be doing the rider swap
3. We are only doing 2 table service meals which we all agreed on...all the rest are on our quick serve plan which is going to be up to them whenever they're ready to eat
5. That's how I'd like it to go...and the way your brother's wife acted is how I'm afraid he'll act Maybe we can discuss this in the nicest way possible and come to this agreement. Even though I'm upset by it all, out of all of us, he actually values my opinions and listens openly to me when I have advice.

Thanks!!!

 

[Pamnkevin]

I have given this some thought and I think that there is nothing you can do to mitigate your BIL's behavior so I would not even try. What I would do is make sure that you can accomodate the kids whenever possible, plan the FP and ADR's for the group, and then let the chips fall where they may.

We travel as a group often and if we had THAT one in our group, it would be my oldest son and his wife. He tends to get overwhelmed or overstimulated, or something. Whatever you call it, he is a bit socially awkwad so he misses a lot of signals that tell other people that he needs to stop, he hates crowds, and cant stand heat. He has been this way all of his life, and even though we are used to him and love him dearly, there are times....His wife just annoys everyone in the family but me. You put the two together, add them to a family vacation, and you have a mss waiting to happen. WE always include them but when he declines, I totally understand. He knows he will be miserable for the length of time we are there, and I know he will be miserable. Since he has been married he has had to visit with his wife's family for two weeks spans and he starts getting anxious two months in advance, but so far not oen of them will cut him any slack. They are commanded to spend every minute together, (and my DDIL family is difficult, thats why she moved across country) so by the time they get home, both are exhausted and completely stressed.

So with all of that said, knowing all of the reasons my DS avoids extended trips with us, and that we all understand his reasoning, let me try to give a few suggestions. AS I said, you are not going to be able to change BIL so don't try. DO try to let him off of the hook. I bet dollars to donuts he i using his animals as a reason to have an escape route from the rest of the family, so let him. WE all love my son, and we all know that he is not like your BIL, but he knows that there are times when his sister or brother want to toss him off the porch. Your BIL sounds like he is more of a loose cannon so an escape is more ofa blessing for you then for him, I bet. If he wants to stay away from the rest of you, embrace that. Make it clear to DSIL that if they bail....they pay the loss, and let that go.

Plan to offer to keep the kids whenever he storms off, and offer in a way that does not back his tempered self into a corner. At home you don't need to be graceful, but with 24 people in tow, you really don't want to send families into seperate corners, they never can come back from that. If he does drag his kids off, and your DSIL lets this happen, that tells you more about their marraige than anyone would want to know, but again, you are never going to change them.

Encourage each family to plan alone time. If you all wind up together you are golden, but even in our group we split off and meet back for certain attractions, parades or meals. I cannot even imagine herding a group of your size for any length of time, never mind with one man who does not want to be there. My DH wants us all to stay together but even he knows that wth an age difference in thegroup that is not always a feasable plan.

I think you said that BIL family is staying at FW. If so, maybeplan some time there. Trails End is a good place to eat, Chip and Dale host a campfire sing-a-long, and it is a nice boatride from MK. Let him host those of you who would enjoy this lovely spot.

No matter how much you plan, no matter how hard you try to make this trip perfect for your IL's. there are going to be bumps, so do the best you can. It really will work out!

Your Son and my BIL sound like the same person. This is exactly how he is, but add alcohol to the mix

That's exactly what I was thinking about his need to take the dogs. So if this does happen, which may not necessarily be a bad thing...do you think i should talk to him now about possibly letting us keep the kids for a while or even overnight? That way he's already aware that it's an option? He's already expressed to me that if he gets upset, let him walk away (which I'll have no problem doing)...so he's anticipating the worst already. I'm just thinking telling him now (in a calm nice way) would be better than saying it out of no where when everyone is upset.

Thanks for your advice!