Known International Seller

[808blessing]

At what part of the process do you know it is an intnl Seller?

 

[Cyberc1978]

At what part of the process do you know it is an intnl Seller?

You can either ask the broker upfront if they have any contracts from international sellers or you will know when you receive the contract as it holds it contains some of both sellers and buyers addresses. If a country name is part of the address then you know.

Regards

 

[geargrinder]

A couple of the brokers will state that it is an international seller in the listing notes.

They aren't common, but there are a few out there. It's probably just best to ask the broker.

 

[Noodlez]

I've seen it in the listing before, but I personally wouldn't sell through a broker who gave this kind of information prior to an offer being agreed.

 

[heynowirv]

I've seen it in the listing before, but I personally wouldn't sell through a broker who gave this kind of information prior to an offer being agreed.

Why is that? Everyone has a right to know. We bought 2 contracts from Canadians and they worked out fine.

 

[The Jackal]

I've seen it in the listing before, but I personally wouldn't sell through a broker who gave this kind of information prior to an offer being agreed.

So you don’t think the buyer should know ahead of time all of the possible issues with a contract before they put an offer in?

 

[Noodlez]

Why is that? Everyone has a right to know. We bought 2 contracts from Canadians and they worked out fine.

I'm not sure why they would have a right to know, prior to making an offer? Brokers don't give out other personal information about the seller (I hope). I'm from the UK and there is no reason to believe buying from me would not work out fine!

One of the reasons is that it is reported that ROFR does not happen on international sales. From a sellers perspective, ROFR is a good thing! I wouldn't want people offering me below what they thought would normally be taken because they knew I was international.

Another reason is that I have heard that it takes longer to return the documents because it is harder to get them signed in the UK. While it is true that we need to make an appointment, this generally only takes a couple of days. My (non-international) seller took far longer than that! Again, this information may make people think that they could offer lower than the true value.

Hopefully, after I have accepted their offer they will be reassured that it is more likely to pass ROFR, but prior to this point I don't think they have a right to know my personal circumstances.

I appreciate that having both and international buyer and seller at the same time does make things slightly more awkward, but that is something we would have to deal with if it occurs.

 

[Noodlez]

So you don’t think the buyer should know ahead of time all of the possible issues with a contract before they put an offer in?

I think the fact that you assume being international is an issue is exactly why! Unless both parties were international, I can't see any reason it should be?

 

[sethschroeder]

I'm from the UK and there is no reason to believe buying from me would not work out fine!

Its not as easy or as quick as buying from someone in the US most likely. Disney also doesn't look at the contract the same. Its telling when Disney will leave money on the table to avoid using ROFR on international contracts.

Buyers should absolutely know non-standard things regarding a possible contract purchase (or sale).

Just like if I am selling I would want to know up front where the buyer is from. Not something I need to request each time.

 

[Noodlez]

Its not as easy or as quick as buying from someone in the US most likely.

As I haven't sold yet, could you tell me why? From what I have read on the UK forums, the only difference is that it can take a couple of days to get a notary to sign the documents. I don't think that actually makes much difference as a lot of sellers aren't in a hurry to return them the same day.

When I bought everything was done electronically, and signed using docusign. This doesn't take any longer from over here. I'm really not sure what the difficulty is.

I think most of the difficulty is perceived, which is why I wouldn't choose a broker that put it on the listing. After we have agreed a price there is still plenty of opportunity to back out before signing the contract, I just wouldn't want it to affect what they think my points are worth.

Edited to add: I think there are many non-standard things that can affect a sale (such as divorces, financial situation, working hours, other contracts that may have bookings on) but I don't imagine a broker telling the buyer any of this. I've read of delayed closing issues/delayed receipt of documents numerous times on here, and being international does not seem to be a major cause of these.

 

[808blessing]

One of my fastest turnaround for a contracts (was processed with an international seller. It depended on broker and title more than anything for me.

 

[PalmettoPath]

I'm not sure why they would have a right to know, prior to making an offer? Brokers don't give out other personal information about the seller (I hope). I'm from the UK and there is no reason to believe buying from me would not work out fine!

One of the reasons is that it is reported that ROFR does not happen on international sales. From a sellers perspective, ROFR is a good thing! I wouldn't want people offering me below what they thought would normally be taken because they knew I was international.

Another reason is that I have heard that it takes longer to return the documents because it is harder to get them signed in the UK. While it is true that we need to make an appointment, this generally only takes a couple of days. My (non-international) seller took far longer than that! Again, this information may make people think that they could offer lower than the true value.

Hopefully, after I have accepted their offer they will be reassured that it is more likely to pass ROFR, but prior to this point I don't think they have a right to know my personal circumstances.

I appreciate that having both and international buyer and seller at the same time does make things slightly more awkward, but that is something we would have to deal with if it occurs.

ROFR does happen on Canadian seller contracts for sure. We have sold two (used the proceeds to add to VGF) and they both went through ROFR (although it was quite quick -- a few days for that part).

 

[Noodlez]

ROFR does happen on Canadian seller contracts for sure. We have sold two (used the proceeds to add to VGF) and they both went through ROFR (although it was quite quick -- a few days for that part).

Apologies, but I worded that bit badly! It's not that they don't go to ROFR, but it is rumoured that DVC do not take international contracts back through ROFR. I've never really checked for the truth of it, I just see it mentioned on here sometimes.

 

[sethschroeder]

ROFR does happen on Canadian seller contracts for sure. We have sold two (used the proceeds to add to VGF) and they both went through ROFR (although it was quite quick -- a few days for that part).

Everything goes through ROFR but on international sellers Disney basically never takes those contracts back. You will see for the deal hunters as an example getting an international seller who has their contract below the ROFR floor is a big win since its unlikely to be taken by Disney.

Edited to add: I think there are many non-standard things that can affect a sale (such as divorces, financial situation, working hours, other contracts that may have bookings on) but I don't imagine a broker telling the buyer any of this. I've read of delayed closing issues/delayed receipt of documents numerous times on here, and being international does not seem to be a major cause of these.

Except none of that is impactful since US law applies to all of that. Where international issues can come in to play is the requirement for taxes to be paid and if not then the current property holder is held responsible. Additionally its much harder for various international buyers to get the required notary that is accepted in the US.

A divorce, working hours, bookings on contracts are all vetted and resolved by the Title company (or supposed to be) but the potential issues of a international buyer are not something a Title company can just resolve.

You can say its not an issue but point is there is more to think about with international sellers than a standard US seller. Enough to stop you from buying? Likely not but it is different. I would want to verify the seller has easy access to a notary prior to locking in a contract through if international.

 

[PalmettoPath]

Apologies, but I worded that bit badly! It's not that they don't go to ROFR, but it is rumoured that DVC do not take international contracts back through ROFR. I've never really checked for the truth of it, I just see it mentioned on here sometimes.

Ah, got it. Not sure about that.

 

[heynowirv]

I'm not sure why they would have a right to know, prior to making an offer? Brokers don't give out other personal information about the seller (I hope). I'm from the UK and there is no reason to believe buying from me would not work out fine!

One of the reasons is that it is reported that ROFR does not happen on international sales. From a sellers perspective, ROFR is a good thing! I wouldn't want people offering me below what they thought would normally be taken because they knew I was international.

Another reason is that I have heard that it takes longer to return the documents because it is harder to get them signed in the UK. While it is true that we need to make an appointment, this generally only takes a couple of days. My (non-international) seller took far longer than that! Again, this information may make people think that they could offer lower than the true value.

Hopefully, after I have accepted their offer they will be reassured that it is more likely to pass ROFR, but prior to this point I don't think they have a right to know my personal circumstances.

I appreciate that having both and international buyer and seller at the same time does make things slightly more awkward, but that is something we would have to deal with if it occurs.

By telling me that the seller is Canadian they are not sharing personal information ,I just have the right to know IMHO.I I've never heard that international sellers DON"T get ROFR'D although that is interesting to know if that is the case..

 

[BeachClub2014]

By telling me that the seller is Canadian they are not sharing personal information ,I just have the right to know IMHO.I I've never heard that international sellers DON"T get ROFR'D although that is interesting to know if that is the case..

I can understand both sides of the discussion, with merit to both arguments, but I'm not sure that a buyer has a right to know that information. A right bestowed upon by whom? God, the law, or both? Not sure that we should conflate desire with what is a right.

I can see how it could be a definite disadvantage to an international seller to be required to have that information pre-disclosed. When you buy a house all of the disclosures and inspections come after the deal is cut.

 

[sethschroeder]

I can understand both sides of the discussion, with merit to both arguments, but I'm not sure that a buyer has a right to know that information. A right bestowed upon by whom? God, the law, or both? Not sure that we should conflate desire with what is a right.

I can see how it could be a definite disadvantage to an international seller to be required to have that information pre-disclosed. When you buy a house all of the disclosures and inspections come after the deal is cut.

1) Law requires for titles to be sent to the county which anyone can pull the information from online
2) You are going to get the name/contract information before buying so you can find any information you want on the seller
3) You are just wasting time by having a buyer jump through hoops to then pull out later if they are one of a few people who would never buy from an international seller

When you buy a house disclosures are on the listing not after you cut a deal. The only piece you get after you agree to a deal is a inspection (if you write that in to your contract). If however an inspection turns up lead paint then that would need to be filled out and filed with the listing moving forward for any potential other buyers looking at the listing. Even things like a new road being constructed that would impact value should be disclosed.

With a house if someone tried to pull showing me a disclosure after we had a tentative agreement in place I would walk on the spot without a substantial monetary reduction in pricing regardless of what the disclosures were for since to me that is a very sneaky practice and honestly even less reason to trust them.

 

[BeachClub2014]

1) Law requires for titles to be sent to the county which anyone can pull the information from online
2) You are going to get the name/contract information before buying so you can find any information you want on the seller
3) You are just wasting time by having a buyer jump through hoops to then pull out later if they are one of a few people who would never buy from an international seller

When you buy a house disclosures are on the listing not after you cut a deal. The only piece you get after you agree to a deal is a inspection (if you write that in to your contract). If however an inspection turns up lead paint then that would need to be filled out and filed with the listing moving forward for any potential other buyers looking at the listing. Even things like a new road being constructed that would impact value should be disclosed.

With a house if someone tried to pull showing me a disclosure after we had a tentative agreement in place I would walk on the spot without a substantial monetary reduction in pricing regardless of what the disclosures were for since to me that is a very sneaky practice and honestly even less reason to trust them.

I'm not looking for a huge debate, so will not go point by point with you.

I don't think anyone has a "right" to know whether a seller is international in a listing. But hey, I will keep an open mind if someone can point out some law that establishes such a right. People certainly can want to know that information to try and negotiate a cheaper deal that will likely sail thru ROFR, but right? I doubt it. That's what I was reacting to.

And I think you understood my point with the house sale comparison, even if you want to pick it apart. I know it isn't exactly the same, but close enough to make the point.

 

[geargrinder]

Knowing that the contract is coming from an International Seller benefits both parties. Not being taken in ROFR gives security and time for the buyer. For the seller it gives some pricing advantage and usually a quicker sale.