Known International Seller

[BeachClub2014]

Knowing that the contract is coming from an International Seller benefits both parties. Not being taken in ROFR gives security and time for the buyer. For the seller it gives some pricing advantage and usually a quicker sale.

Perhaps, but shouldn't that be up to the seller to decide?

 

[Noodlez]

Knowing that the contract is coming from an International Seller benefits both parties. Not being taken in ROFR gives security and time for the buyer. For the seller it gives some pricing advantage and usually a quicker sale.

What pricing advantage would it bring? If people knew there was no chance of ROFR I don't think they'd offer more!

As I mentioned previously, I'd be perfectly happy for someone to know after we'd agreed on a fair price per point, and if they choose to drop out before any formalities happen that that is fine, but I don't think where I live should be allowed to affect what they think my points are worth.

As BeachClub2014 said, if they seller wishes to disclose this thinking that it would benefit them then they are of course entitled to do so, but I don't think anyone has a right to know this information about me without me agreeing.

 

[heynowirv]

I can understand both sides of the discussion, with merit to both arguments, but I'm not sure that a buyer has a right to know that information. A right bestowed upon by whom? God, the law, or both? Not sure that we should conflate desire with what is a right.

I can see how it could be a definite disadvantage to an international seller to be required to have that information pre-disclosed. When you buy a house all of the disclosures and inspections come after the deal is cut.

God has nothing to do with this or any business venture for that matter. It's not a law ,it's a curtesy .No more and no less. When you make the deal you still have 10 days to back out from the deal ,so again what difference does it make if you are told before or after you make the deal?
As I stated before I bought 2 contracts from Canadiens and gave them a fair price as I would to anyone else.

 

[heynowirv]

What pricing advantage would it bring? If people knew there was no chance of ROFR I don't think they'd offer more!

As I mentioned previously, I'd be perfectly happy for someone to know after we'd agreed on a fair price per point, and if they choose to drop out before any formalities happen that that is fine, but I don't think where I live should be allowed to affect what they think my points are worth.

As BeachClub2014 said, if they seller wishes to disclose this thinking that it would benefit them then they are of course entitled to do so, but I don't think anyone has a right to know this information about me without me agreeing.

It HAS to be disclosed when you sign the contract, and then you have up to 10 days to back out if you choose.

 

[BeachClub2014]

God has nothing to do with this or any business venture for that matter. It's not a law ,it's a curtesy .No more and no less. When you make the deal you still have 10 days to back out from the deal ,so again what difference does it make if you are told before or after you make the deal?
As I stated before I bought 2 contracts from Canadiens and gave them a fair price as I would to anyone else.

I am pretty clear that it isn't a right or a law, which was my entire point in response to a statement made by a pp.

And good on you for offering our Canadian friends fair value for their contracts, that's wonderful. It has been my experience here that buyers tend to look for international sellers in order to get the lowest possible price through ROFR, which is great! I certainly have no issue with digging for a bargain.

My ONLY point was, is, and will remain that a seller shouldn't be required to disclose that they are international when offering a contract for sale. As you rightly pointed out, the buyer has 10-days to rescind their offer if they find out the seller is domestic. Right?

 

[heynowirv]

I am pretty clear that it isn't a right or a law, which was my entire point in response to a statement made by a pp.

And good on you for offering our Canadian friends fair value for their contracts, that's wonderful. It has been my experience here that buyers tend to look for international sellers in order to get the lowest possible price through ROFR, which is great! I certainly have no issue with digging for a bargain.

My ONLY point was, is, and will remain that a seller shouldn't be required to disclose that they are international when offering a contract for sale. As you rightly pointed out, the buyer has 10-days to rescind their offer if they find out the seller is domestic.enough.

Close enough. This conversation has been exhausting and I don't have the desire to continue .

 

[BeachClub2014]

Close enough. This conversation has been exhausting and I don't have the desire to continue .

On that, we are in agreement.

 

[Matty B13]

I usually have a standard set of questions when I make an offer on a contract, one of them is if the seller is an international seller (due to tax considerations), and another one is whether the contract is a part of a probate issue or not. If the broker and/or seller where not willing to answer these questions I wouldn't even bother making an offer, and if I found out after making an offer I wouldn't rescind the offer. It just wastes everyone's time if this information isn't disclosed at the beginning.

 

[geargrinder]

What pricing advantage would it bring? If people knew there was no chance of ROFR I don't think they'd offer more!

As I mentioned previously, I'd be perfectly happy for someone to know after we'd agreed on a fair price per point, and if they choose to drop out before any formalities happen that that is fine, but I don't think where I live should be allowed to affect what they think my points are worth.

As BeachClub2014 said, if they seller wishes to disclose this thinking that it would benefit them then they are of course entitled to do so, but I don't think anyone has a right to know this information about me without me agreeing.

The pricing advantage is there is one less outside variable. No ROFR.

It's one thing to agree on a price and take the chance that it gets taken. Then on the other hand negotiating a price where you that it won't get taken.

My $135 AKL with banked points got taken. Then I found a International Seller with a "less than loaded" contract for $136.

Knowing that ROFR was not in the equation was worth the extra $1 a point.

My seller also knew that their contract was special and wouldn't be taken. It gave them bargaining power as well.

 

[MickeyismyCat]

If a seller is willing to accept the offer a buyer proposes, whether it is high or low, is solely the choice of the seller. All available details of a listed contract should be conveyed to potential buyers. International status included.

That said, like every contract, negotiating for the absolute lowest out the door price should be the primary objective unless the financial burden of a few hundred or thousand dollars isn't worth the effort. We know that for many, it isn't. One of the reasons direct is so often referred to the easy route on these very forums.

For me, knowing a contract has no chance of being taken by ROFR just sets the initial price at the floor. From there, negotiations can take place to complete a deal. Motivated sellers sometimes just don't care, so the low ball shot is worth it.

Sellers countered on my most recent proposal (international), and I held firm. If I, or they want to move it that bad, then one of us can start talks again. Maybe it will sell to someone else before then. Probably should. I need to pay for a new driveway.

 

[Huskerpaul]

For me, knowing a contract has no chance of being taken by ROFR just sets the initial price at the floor.

This attitude is why if I were an international seller I would not want my broker, who should be motivated to get me the highest sales price possible anyways, to disclose I was an international seller.

 

[BeachClub2014]

This attitude is why if I were an international seller I would not want my broker, who should be motivated to get me the highest sales price possible anyways, to disclose I was an international seller.

Careful now, you're about to suffer the wrath of those who have a differing opinion on this topic.

 

[geargrinder]

This attitude is why if I were an international seller I would not want my broker, who should be motivated to get me the highest sales price possible anyways, to disclose I was an international seller.

Would you let them disclose if it helped you get a higher offer?

Like I said previously, I made a higher offer because it was an international seller.

 

[MouseOfCards]

I usually have a standard set of questions when I make an offer on a contract, one of them is if the seller is an international seller (due to tax considerations), and another one is whether the contract is a part of a probate issue or not. If the broker and/or seller where not willing to answer these questions I wouldn't even bother making an offer, and if I found out after making an offer I wouldn't rescind the offer. It just wastes everyone's time if this information isn't disclosed at the beginning.

These would be our questions, too. We've had a few transactions with international sellers and all involved an extended closing - some delays were short, but a couple were significant.

 

[MouseOfCards]

I usually have a standard set of questions when I make an offer on a contract, one of them is if the seller is an international seller (due to tax considerations), and another one is whether the contract is a part of a probate issue or not. If the broker and/or seller where not willing to answer these questions I wouldn't even bother making an offer, and if I found out after making an offer I wouldn't rescind the offer. It just wastes everyone's time if this information isn't disclosed at the beginning.

These would be our questions, too. We've had a few transactions with international sellers and all involved an extended closing - some delays were short, but a couple were significant.

BTW, our longest closing was a probate one involving multiple beneficiaries. That one took over 6 months.

 

[MickeyismyCat]

Careful now, you're about to suffer the wrath of those who have a differing opinion on this topic.

Indeed.

My first sentance stated the rational for my opinion. The seller has the right to reject the buyers offers if they don't meet their expected terms/return.
If a seller is motivated for what ever reason, then all parties win. Good price, fast sale, etc.
Sales 101?

 

[Redheadprincess]

I've seen it in the listing before, but I personally wouldn't sell through a broker who gave this kind of information prior to an offer being agreed.

A potential buyer has a right to know, extra steps are required for these contracts and take longer to close. Two of the largest resellers disclose in the listing and others will gladly tell you if you ask. I closed on two international seller contracts this year and we specifically looked for them to increase our chances of paying ROFR, which we did.

 

[The Jackal]

I think the fact that you assume being international is an issue is exactly why! Unless both parties were international, I can't see any reason it should be?

There can be delays because some countries do not have a notary nearby, so time could be extended. These days there are some over the phone notary’s. Then there are extra papers to fill out for the taxes. I cannot remember the exact name for the taxes, but if they are not paid by the seller, then the buyer will end up paying them. Uncle Sam want his tax money.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

As I haven't sold yet, could you tell me why? From what I have read on the UK forums, the only difference is that it can take a couple of days to get a notary to sign the documents. I don't think that actually makes much difference as a lot of sellers aren't in a hurry to return them the same day.

When I bought everything was done electronically, and signed using docusign. This doesn't take any longer from over here. I'm really not sure what the difficulty is.

I think most of the difficulty is perceived, which is why I wouldn't choose a broker that put it on the listing. After we have agreed a price there is still plenty of opportunity to back out before signing the contract, I just wouldn't want it to affect what they think my points are worth.

Edited to add: I think there are many non-standard things that can affect a sale (such as divorces, financial situation, working hours, other contracts that may have bookings on) but I don't imagine a broker telling the buyer any of this. I've read of delayed closing issues/delayed receipt of documents numerous times on here, and being international does not seem to be a major cause of these.

The broker has to reveal the information if the buyer asks before offer. We always ask before offer. We have purchased 6 resales and one was from an international seller (Canada). We were aware ahead of time. Sorry, but we will never purchase from an international seller again because, if you read the fine print on the contract, there is no guarantee that the US government will not come after the buyer for taxes owed. I realize the chance of this happening is incredibly small, but— the chance is still there. We tried to get the title company to amend the contract but they refused. It’s a crappy system. Put in by the US government. And it isn’t fair, but at the end of the day, the buyer is responsible for any taxes owed. In theory, the title company holds back the taxes, but they refuse to put in writing that they take full responsibility for any taxes owed.

 

[castle1]

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