Kids on shoulders

[handicap18]

A few years back I set up my tripod on the hub at MK (there were about 3 others around me doing the same thing) so I could take pictures of the fireworks. When the lights went down, everyone stayed seated except one guy who stood up and had his child on his shoulders and it was about 20' in front of me. At this point it was very difficult to move since it was so dark. It took 15 minutes of a number of people yelling at him to sit down before he finally sat. There were people seated behind him who couldn't see anything. I saw 2 people throw something at a him. 3 different times he even turned around and saw that everyone was seated yet he still chose to stand with his child on his shoulders.

Another trip I staked out a spot near Casey's Corner to set up my tripod. I was there a good hour before the fireworks. About 10 minutes before they were supposed to start a family of about 6 stood about 15' in front of me and there were all wearing Cat In The Hat style Christmas hats. UGGGHHHH Luckily I was able to adjust my tripod and lens enough were their hats didn't bother my photos to much. You can see a few hats in some of the pictures, but since I was using long exposures they mostly blended into everything else because they never stood still.

 

[teambeaman]

I think the fact that this is still going on is ridiculous. I think The reason that Bugs is saying that children should be given special consideration is because they are short, through no fault of their own, and unfortunately if they are not in the front would end up most likely staring at someone's backside. Now, given the fact that my DH is tall and always considers that people that are behind him probably can't see, and because of this tends to hang in the back, couldn't others have the same consideration for the shorter people behind them (mostly children I imagine) and either sit if you are towards the front or scoot a few inches to the side (if possible) to allow an opportunity for everyone to see regardless of when they got there? When did everyone become so self-centered? Surely my DH is not the last considerate person on this earth.

 

[SpringSprite]

It seems to me any kids are not going to be able to see over any adults standing in front of them. So barring the families that push in 5 minutes prior to parade start...if we have first row sitters, where everyone can see, 2nd row standers where everyone (including kids) should be able to see over the sitters, what makes the 3rd row people who have their kids on their shoulders (so they can see over the 2nd row standers) so rude to the 4th row standers, who I'm thinking got there AFTER the 3rd row people. Doesn't the "I got here first, through proper planning and waiting" argument excuse the behavior of those 3rd row child hoisters?

 

[teambeaman]

It seems to me any kids are not going to be able to see over any adults standing in front of them. So barring the families that push in 5 minutes prior to arrival...if we have first row sitters, where everyone can see, 2nd row standers where everyone (including kids) should be able to see over the sitters, what makes the 3rd row people who have their kids on their shoulders (so they can see over the 2nd row standers) so rude to the 4th row standers, who I'm thinking got there AFTER the 3rd row people. Doesn't the "I got here first, through proper planning and waiting" argument excuse the behavior of those 3rd row child hoisters?

That's exactly how I see it as well! Well said!

 

[LilyWDW]

I think the fact that this is still going on is ridiculous. I think The reason that Bugs is saying that children should be given special consideration is because they are short, through no fault of their own, and unfortunately if they are not in the front would end up most likely staring at someone's backside. Now, given the fact that my DH is tall and always considers that people that are behind him probably can't see, and because of this tends to hang in the back, couldn't others have the same consideration for the shorter people behind them (mostly children I imagine) and either sit if you are towards the front or scoot a few inches to the side (if possible) to allow an opportunity for everyone to see regardless of when they got there? When did everyone become so self-centered? Surely my DH is not the last considerate person on this earth.

Is it not also self centered to expect others to accommodate? Personally I believe it is. I will sit as long as others don't also block my view. However, if I take the personal responsibility to get there early, to claim my spot, and to wait... why can't other people? It really is the same for many of the arguments on these boards and it is the same answer I have always given. Personal responsibility has to happen. And when people complain about how they can't see because little susie is in the back and why can't people let their child in the front... then it shows that some people don't have it.

 

[margaret07013]

I feel your pain of not be able to take a pictures of fireworks...

but here is 2 cents from a mother of 2 little 'normal' snowflakes.

first - I want to thank a family who on May 5th, 2014 allowed my kids and also kids of other family to 'squeeze' in and see the parade. not only that family allowed my kids to see the parade, but the woman was nice enough to literally watch after my kids while me and my husband were standing behind their family. her and mine kids were playing together before the parade. there was another man who got up and allowed another 2 small kids of another family squeeze in too. he gave up his place next to his wife/girlfriend so 2 little girls could have a front seat for the parade. their parents were standing behind us.

in both cases - none of them had to do it. but they did it.

it wasn't about kids being entitled or more important than others, it wasn't about us pushing our kids forward and taking their places. it was about "magic" of Disney. to see their smiles. and grown ups who understood it.

so thank you to this family who "adopted" both of my kids for 20 minutes or so during the electrical parade. it was a highlight of our trip. thank you.

but also big "thank you" to the family who decided to invade a space in front of our strollers during the MK show and block the view for my kids. yes, I am talking to that family without the small kids, with their elderly parents and grown kids who decided to make the a$$ show to my kids. yes, my kids could only see your a$$. not only that but you decided to take out the iPad and start blocking even my view.

I got video of the whole event to prove it if anyone wishes to see it.

and yes my husband did put our 2 yr daughter on his shoulders so she could see anything.

A few years back I set up my tripod on the hub at MK (there were about 3 others around me doing the same thing) so I could take pictures of the fireworks. When the lights went down, everyone stayed seated except one guy who stood up and had his child on his shoulders and it was about 20' in front of me.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Again, please provide me one example where I have said or implied that I think my child is more important than anyone else? I said that I feel that any adult should allow a small child to move up if it doesn't affect their view as I feel these events are designed for kids enjoyment. That is my opinion and the opinion of some others. I am entitled to it like you are entitled to yours.

Where do you stand on the rights of short people? Or even further, little people, who really wouldn't be able to see anywhere but the front row?

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think the fact that this is still going on is ridiculous. I think The reason that Bugs is saying that children should be given special consideration is because they are short, through no fault of their own, and unfortunately if they are not in the front would end up most likely staring at someone's backside. Now, given the fact that my DH is tall and always considers that people that are behind him probably can't see, and because of this tends to hang in the back, couldn't others have the same consideration for the shorter people behind them (mostly children I imagine) and either sit if you are towards the front or scoot a few inches to the side (if possible) to allow an opportunity for everyone to see regardless of when they got there? When did everyone become so self-centered? Surely my DH is not the last considerate person on this earth.

Many people have said they do what they can to accommodate young children. It is when the parent *also* wants to go in front...so they can see their child experience the event/take pictures of their child/whatever...that is what many people have a problem with. When it's not *just* the child.

If a family feels they need to experience a parade or fireworks all together as a family, AND they feel that their youngest children need a really great spot, THEN, they should be reserving a spot early. At *that* point, it is not the responsibility of those around them to accommodate their lack of planning.

If something is important to me to have happen a certain way, I don't leave it up to anyone else to decide if it will or not. If I really have to make a parade and have a great front row seat for DD, we'll stake out the seat early because I find it rude and inconsiderate to *expect* others to give up their seats for my child. It's my job to plan for my child's experience - no one else's.

If we get there late and someone offers to let DD go in front of them, I will be very grateful for their consideration. But I will not *expect* it of them, and then be upset if they don't offer or if they say no to a request.

That's what this whole conversation comes down to. Expectations.

 

[BugsDaddy]

I feel your pain of not be able to take a pictures of fireworks...

but here is 2 cents from a mother of 2 little 'normal' snowflakes.

first - I want to thank a family who on May 5th, 2014 allowed my kids and also kids of other family to 'squeeze' in and see the parade. not only that family allowed my kids to see the parade, but the woman was nice enough to literally watch after my kids while me and my husband were standing behind their family. her and mine kids were playing together before the parade. there was another man who got up and allowed another 2 small kids of another family squeeze in too. he gave up his place next to his wife/girlfriend so 2 little girls could have a front seat for the parade. their parents were standing behind us.

in both cases - none of them had to do it. but they did it.

it wasn't about kids being entitled or more important than others, it wasn't about us pushing our kids forward and taking their places. it was about "magic" of Disney. to see their smiles. and grown ups who understood it.

so thank you to this family who "adopted" both of my kids for 20 minutes or so during the electrical parade. it was a highlight of our trip. thank you.

but also big "thank you" to the family who decided to invade a space in front of our strollers during the MK show and block the view for my kids. yes, I am talking to that family without the small kids, with their elderly parents and grown kids who decided to make the a$$ show to my kids. yes, my kids could only see your a$$. not only that but you decided to take out the iPad and start blocking even my view.

I got video of the whole event to prove it if anyone wishes to see it.

and yes my husband did put our 2 yr daughter on his shoulders so she could see anything.

Thanks for providing a real-world example of what I was trying to convey.

 

[iheartbklyn]

This thread went much further than I expected it to. Now to catch up and read all the pages.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Thanks for providing a real-world example of what I was trying to convey.

That is the extreme, and you are well aware of that. That is not what most people here have been talking about. Just as my character incidences in DLR with having children pushed in front of me and being told by a parent that it was fine because disney is for the kids anyway were an extreme as well.

There are extremes on *both* sides of the spectrum. As another PP said so well, there are jerks everywhere. Including at Disney. Not giving up a parade spot for another family doesn't make someone a jerk.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

We usually try to save a little extra room for late arriving small children. We always make sure the parents can see them, but not get in front. Now, if they want to sit or kneel, I have no problem with that.

 

[BugsDaddy]

That is the extreme, and you are well aware of that. That is not what most people here have been talking about. Just as my character incidences in DLR with having children pushed in front of me and being told by a parent that it was fine because disney is for the kids anyway were an extreme as well.

There are extremes on *both* sides of the spectrum. As another PP said so well, there are jerks everywhere. Including at Disney. Not giving up a parade spot for another family doesn't make someone a jerk.

I don't think that someone allowing a kid to move up to see a parade is an extreme situation. I would guess that it happens all the time. Believe it or not, the vast majority of people that go to WDW do so without elaborate touring plans and schedules planned out to the minute. The majority, for the lack of a better term, are winging it. It is fine to plan out every detail of your vacation and I prefer to do that a lot myself but I am willing to give a little kid a little slack and let him watch the parade if I can. If someone else doesn't want to do that, that is up to them.

 

[North of Mouse]

Actually, hearing how my parents were parented, no. They were abused and ignored. Is that parenting? When my grandmother took a car trip with her children, she drugged them all. Caused them to sleep the entire time. My dad and uncles and aunt talk about the paregoric she used to give them. My dad was an absolute hellion, and NO amount of anything she attempted to do, not physical abuse, not any sort of groundings, not ignoring or punishing, changed him. He was a horrible child and nothing much has changed. When he married my mom at 19, after convincing her to marry him despite his standing her up on their first date, his whole family knew it wasn't going to turn out well.

My mom's family had their own lives 99% of the time, expecting their 3 children to fend for themselves. It was no wonder my mom did what she had to do to get out of the house asap, and that was accomplished by marrying at 17.

Many people "raised" like that know how awful it is, and will do anything they can do to undo the damage done and do things differently.

Laughing at the idea that my grandparents did anything close to "parenting". More like being jailers. I'm truly not sure why they had kids.

So your parents were raised in an abusive situation, you will lump all our parents together, hummmm???? Sorry, but I had very good parents, grandparents, that were very loving and responsible.

We were all expected to obey and be respectful of authority, but were definitely not abused - also never saw any of this in my friends' parents. So that was a 'bad' thing, right??? Afraid not!!

I see lots of children today that could use a little more 'parenting' and less of the parents trying to be their 'friends', and the children telling their parents what to do. (much of this is on our many visits to Disney).

Back on topic, yes, we are kids at Disney and love to see the parades as much as kids (in age) do, and we 'do' stake out a spot to see unhindered - takes a little effort, but we do it and don't give up our spots for late comers who feel more entitled than we because they have children - I'm a short person also.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I don't think that someone allowing a kid to move up to see a parade is an extreme situation. I would guess that it happens all the time.

You know that that is not the situation I was referring to. You thanked someone for sharing a real world situation in which the children received the "*** show" from adults who didn't show any consideration.

My post was in reference to that exchange - that it is *more* on the extreme side to have situations like that one, where adults are not just not noticing, but being actively rude to children. Just like the situation I had related earlier where a parent was actively being rude to me by pushing their child in front of me to see a character and telling me it was because Disney is for kids was *also* an extreme situation.


[quote[Believe it or not, the vast majority of people that go to WDW do so without elaborate touring plans and schedules planned out to the minute. [/quote]
Really? I wasn't aware of that...

Seriously, I don't use elaborate touring plans and schedules to the minute. We wing it a lot of the time. There's not a lot of planning involved in saying "I want to see the 3pm parade, and I want to sit up front...maybe I should get there by 2:30". There are lines for EVERYTHING in Disney World. The concept of having to wait for something to get a good view really shouldn't be all that foreign.

 

[SpringSprite]

That is the extreme, and you are well aware of that. That is not what most people here have been talking about. Just as my character incidences in DLR with having children pushed in front of me and being told by a parent that it was fine because disney is for the kids anyway were an extreme as well.

Thank goodness both of these examples are extremes! I just re-read most of this thread, because I am a glutton for punishment, and from what I can tell, most off what people are P'd off about here are families / adults / kids / whoever pushing in at the last minute - I don't think anyone who has posted here believes THAT is ok, whether they believe the parades are primarily for kids, or everyone equally, or whatever. Does anyone who has posted here think pushing your way in is ok? Geez, I hope not

Edited to add - I read Bugs' "thanks for the real world example" as a positive on the sharing the parade with the kids, not as on the a$$ show...no offense intended to either Angel or Bugs from me.

 

[BugsDaddy]

You know that that is not the situation I was referring to. You thanked someone for sharing a real world situation in which the children received the "*** show" from adults who didn't show any consideration.

My post was in reference to that exchange - that it is *more* on the extreme side to have situations like that one, where adults are not just not noticing, but being actively rude to children. Just like the situation I had related earlier where a parent was actively being rude to me by pushing their child in front of me to see a character and telling me it was because Disney is for kids was *also* an extreme situation.


[quote[Believe it or not, the vast majority of people that go to WDW do so without elaborate touring plans and schedules planned out to the minute.

Really? I wasn't aware of that...

Seriously, I don't use elaborate touring plans and schedules to the minute. We wing it a lot of the time. There's not a lot of planning involved in saying "I want to see the 3pm parade, and I want to sit up front...maybe I should get there by 2:30". There are lines for EVERYTHING in Disney World. The concept of having to wait for something to get a good view really shouldn't be all that foreign.[/QUOTE]


The part of what was posted in terms of adults allowing kids to move up was the part I was commenting on as a real world example of the point I was trying to convey. While, I think it occurs, I think the experience of adults being intentionally cruel to a child is probably an extreme case. Allowing room for a child, is not an extreme case and most reasonable people would probably consider it common courtesy.

For all of the judgements being made on parenting, I find it interesting that there is such a contingency of people who do not believe that children will tend to reflect the examples they are given. If they are shown inconsiderate and self centered behavior, that is what they will probably emulate as they get older.

 

[luvmy2babies]

We just got back and I haven't read this whole thread, but we waited an hour ahead for MSEP this week. My daughter was in the 2nd row. I put my son behind her in the stroller and I stood behind him right inside the tape. Two teenage girls were sitting next to my daughter and a row of people were in front of them. When the parade started both girls stood up, blocking my son's view and requiring my daughter to stand up.

This meant I now had to hold him. I knew I couldn't put him on my shoulders because I had let some people in behind me. So I held him on my hip for the entire parade and let me tell you, there were a few moments where I started to not feel too well. Thank goodness I had my personal fan. I did get the one girl to remove the large hat (graduation hat) she was wearing, but yeah not fun. We had fast passes for MSEP for our first night there and it got cancelled that night due to the weather.

But Wishes is another matter because they pretty much make you move in towards the center. After holding my son on my hip through the entire parade I didn't have it in me to do it again after they did their "fill in all of the available space" routine. And yes it is easier to sit him on my shoulders. His weight is more evenly distributed. I do that for Dream Along with Mickey because we are usually standing at the back. For Wishes I was able to stand him sort of on the console of his stroller so his head was just above mine and I used my shoulder to keep him stable. I'm 5'5", but it was enough.

I kind of think sometimes it's like a domino effect and what happens might be the result of someone 10 or 15 people away you can't even see.

 

[Angel Ariel]

While, I think it occurs, I think the experience of adults being intentionally cruel to a child is probably an extreme case.

That is exactly what I was saying.

Allowing room for a child, is not an extreme case and most reasonable people would probably consider it common courtesy.

I never said allowing room for a child was an extreme case. In fact, if you go back through the thread I have consistently said that I *do* allow children to step in front of me when I can, and I do consider it very courteous.

If they are shown inconsiderate and self centered behavior, that is what they will probably emulate as they get older.

I would agree with this statement.

I just don't think that taking the approach of "this is my child, therefore if I want them to have a certain experience, it's my responsibility to try and make it happen and no one else's" is self centered or inconsiderate.

As I said before, if someone else offers or allows my child to go in front of them, obviously I would be very grateful, and I help children out as I can as well. But I do not *expect* or *demand* that of others.

 

[BugsDaddy]

That is exactly what I was saying.

[qote]Allowing room for a child, is not an extreme case and most reasonable people would probably consider it common courtesy.

I never said allowing room for a child was an extreme case. In fact, if you go back through the thread I have consistently said that I *do* allow children to step in front of me when I can, and I do consider it very courteous.



I would agree with this statement.

I just don't think that taking the approach of "this is my child, therefore if I want them to have a certain experience, it's my responsibility to try and make it happen and no one else's" is self centered or inconsiderate.

As I said before, if someone else offers or allows my child to go in front of them, obviously I would be very grateful, and I help children out as I can as well. But I do not *expect* or *demand* that of others.[/QUOTE]

I would never allow someone the courtesy of moving up if they were being rude or pushy about it or felt they were entitled to it. I will say that no one who has ever asked me had been this way. They have always been very polite and appreciative after the fact. I was happy to benign a position to help.

What bothers me is the contingency of posters in this thread who are very aggressive in their stance that any child who even asks to move up must be an entitled little brat with horrible parents and they are not budging an inch under any circumstances. I am not saying this is you but those people know who they are.

They are entitled to their opinion though as I am entitled to disagree with their stance.