kids not being taught how to write in cursive at schools, anymore?

[KatheeME]

AND they've stopped teaching the children how to use an abacus.

 

[KatheeME]

Yes the school that I student taught at was Blue Ribbon....I honestly thought it (the school, not the award) was a joke though.

So, when you need to write a signature, these kids who will be adults in the future, will have to print their names instead of use cursive...weird!

Why is it "weird" if one prints his signature? It's still his or her signature .

 

[golfgal]

Did you realize that this comes off as sounding like you think schools in poorer districts have plenty of money that they COULD spend on computers and they just do not care enough to do so While that might be the case once in a while it generally is NOT.
As far as parents raising the money goes--that is much more easily done in a district where there are many stay at home parents to work various fundraisers, or even parents who "only" work one 40 hour a week job and have some free time AND in districts where the families involved with the school and their neighbors have money to spend on bake sales, car washes, fundraising walks, etc. This does not work out so well in areas where the majority of kids come form single parent households in which that parent works 2 or 3 jobs to scrape by and even IF the kids could get funds by being there to wash cars or working a vending area at a football game or something the kids themselves may have to work after school to help out at home, or babysit their younger siblings, etc.
I am sure you have worked hard to get where you are and consider your children to be a top priority. However, there truly are people who have worked just as hard (or harder) and who also consider their children to be a top priority who simply have had the luck element work to let them get to the financial place you are.

Finances (being poor or wealthy) have nothing to do with it-there are "poor" people in our school district too. Again, it comes down to priorities. There are plenty of people around the country that don't make very much money but make sure their kids get a good education and make sure they have what they need to do so. The districts in our state that have the highest per pupil funding are the worst school districts in the state. Our district is right in the middle nationally for per pupil funding. We are not exploding at the seams with money by any means. We have a 15 MILLION dollar shortfall from the state funds coming up and the community has to vote on a referendum this fall. They did a survey and 87% of the parents backed the increase in taxes. Yes, it is going to stretch some budgets but people are willing to make that sacrifice.

There are plenty of districts in our state that do NOT have that support and are closing schools, cutting programs, etc.

The man that headed up the fundraiser to get those computers worked a HECK of a lot more then 40 hours/week. Yes, he was a prominent business man and was financially well off but he also traveled 3 weeks out of 4 at least, worked at LEAST 12 hours/day, has 5 kids that all went through the school but saw a need to get it done so he did.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Finances (being poor or wealthy) have nothing to do with it-there are "poor" people in our school district too. Again, it comes down to priorities. There are plenty of people around the country that don't make very much money but make sure their kids get a good education and make sure they have what they need to do so. The districts in our state that have the highest per pupil funding are the worst school districts in the state. Our district is right in the middle nationally for per pupil funding. We are not exploding at the seams with money by any means. We have a 15 MILLION dollar shortfall from the state funds coming up and the community has to vote on a referendum this fall. They did a survey and 87% of the parents backed the increase in taxes. Yes, it is going to stretch some budgets but people are willing to make that sacrifice.

There are plenty of districts in our state that do NOT have that support and are closing schools, cutting programs, etc.

The man that headed up the fundraiser to get those computers worked a HECK of a lot more then 40 hours/week. Yes, he was a prominent business man and was financially well off but he also traveled 3 weeks out of 4 at least, worked at LEAST 12 hours/day, has 5 kids that all went through the school but saw a need to get it done so he did.

I truly did not think you meant to come off as saying you (and your neighbors) are better than people in other districts based on your earlier post but now I am thinking maybe you really do think that. If you do not think that you should really reread this and edit your tone down a bit because that is the attitude it is projecting.
You do realize that there are districts where 80-90% of the families live below (often well below) the poverty line, don't you? Places where the budget barely provides food and shelter and often does not provide good heating or medical care. Places where the priority decision is to heat the house to 65 or buy allergy medicine. Computers are a great way to boost education--but they are not as important as some of the basics that many people do come by easily.
As far as working--a business man working lots of hours and travelling (I know what that is like, my husband travels 80% of the time and often works 12 hour days on the rare weeks he is home) has a million more contacts and the skills needed to use them and the resources (a computer, internet connection, phone) that a single parent working 2-3 jobs as a waitress, housekeeper, etc. A business traveler also tends to be able to fit in a call or email here or there to work on such things. The lowest level jobs often have no phone or computer available to use and would be fired if they did.
Anyway, you should know that if you pay any sort of attention to the news. I assume you do know it and sincerely hope that you are just not expressing yourself well and are not truly this smug and condescending.

 

[golfgal]

I truly did not think you meant to come off as saying you (and your neighbors) are better than people in other districts based on your earlier post but now I am thinking maybe you really do think that. If you do not think that you should really reread this and edit your tone down a bit because that is the attitude it is projecting.
You do realize that there are districts where 80-90% of the families live below (often well below) the poverty line, don't you? Places where the budget barely provides food and shelter and often does not provide good heating or medical care. Places where the priority decision is to heat the house to 65 or buy allergy medicine. Computers are a great way to boost education--but they are not as important as some of the basics that many people do come by easily.
As far as working--a business man working lots of hours and travelling (I know what that is like, my husband travels 80% of the time and often works 12 hour days on the rare weeks he is home) has a million more contacts and the skills needed to use them and the resources (a computer, internet connection, phone) that a single parent working 2-3 jobs as a waitress, housekeeper, etc. A business traveler also tends to be able to fit in a call or email here or there to work on such things. The lowest level jobs often have no phone or computer available to use and would be fired if they did.
Anyway, you should know that if you pay any sort of attention to the news. I assume you do know it and sincerely hope that you are just not expressing yourself well and are not truly this smug and condescending.

Read it however you want but education is there for EVERYONE and those that choose not to take advantage of it reap what they sow, so to speak. Yes I realize that there are people that live in areas that are well below poverty levels but DO SOMETHING about it if you don't like it. I know PLENTY of people that have worked their way out of poverty, it's not easy but it CAN be done. Heck, even going to college if you are poor will cost you nothing. Your life is what you make of it, no more, no less. If you choose to live in poverty, that is your choice and no one is to blame but yourself. Yes, it means you have to work a little harder then you already are but don't you think that working harder for say 2 years to get an associates degree is better then suffering for your whole life?

I never said that we were better or worse, just that our area makes education a priority, period. There are plenty of areas that do NOT.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Read it however you want but education is there for EVERYONE and those that choose not to take advantage of it reap what they sow, so to speak. Yes I realize that there are people that live in areas that are well below poverty levels but DO SOMETHING about it if you don't like it. I know PLENTY of people that have worked their way out of poverty, it's not easy but it CAN be done. Heck, even going to college if you are poor will cost you nothing. Your life is what you make of it, no more, no less. If you choose to live in poverty, that is your choice and no one is to blame but yourself. Yes, it means you have to work a little harder then you already are but don't you think that working harder for say 2 years to get an associates degree is better then suffering for your whole life?

I never said that we were better or worse, just that our area makes education a priority, period. There are plenty of areas that do NOT.

So you truly believe absolutely everyone in the USA could have YOUR standard of living and afford to live in an area like yours and with schools like yours if they would only work hard enough at it? Honest question here--not trying to be snarky
You really cannot conceive of anyone who does have educating their child as a top priority still not being able to get to that point? Even if that person is a single parent with no higher education who lives too far from any community college to get to classes (and lacks the funds to make a move because you will need first and last month's rent and electricity deposits and a truck or van to haul your furniture and a job where you move to and maybe a sister there but you live near someone who will watch the kids for free, etc)?

ETA--isn't it funny how this thread has evolved? We started off 10 or so pages back pretty much making the exact same point--you can write letters without using cursive and now we seem to be on opposing sides of a follow up debate! lol

 

[golfgal]

So you truly believe absolutely everyone in the USA could have YOUR standard of living and afford to live in an area like yours and with schools like yours if they would only work hard enough at it? Honest question here--not trying to be snarky
You really cannot conceive of anyone who does have educating their child as a top priority still not being able to get to that point? Even if that person is a single parent with no higher education who lives too far from any community college to get to classes (and lacks the funds to make a move because you will need first and last month's rent and electricity deposits and a truck or van to haul your furniture and a job where you move to and maybe a sister there but you live near someone who will watch the kids for free, etc)?

ETA--isn't it funny how this thread has evolved? We started off 10 or so pages back pretty much making the exact same point--you can write letters without using cursive and now we seem to be on opposing sides of a follow up debate! lol

I understand that there are people out there that CHOOSE not to make it a priority to make their life better. No one said it was EASY. I realize that we are very lucky to have the schools we have and we spent a lot of time researching schools when we moved here. I also have to say that DH and I both came from homes with not a lot of money, in fact, by today's standards we were probably both brought up in homes with below or close to poverty level incomes. Getting an education was never an option though.

 

[Dictator]

Golfgal, do you have no proof to back up your previous claim?

 

[Chelley00]

Read it however you want but education is there for EVERYONE and those that choose not to take advantage of it reap what they sow, so to speak. Yes I realize that there are people that live in areas that are well below poverty levels but DO SOMETHING about it if you don't like it. I know PLENTY of people that have worked their way out of poverty, it's not easy but it CAN be done. Heck, even going to college if you are poor will cost you nothing. Your life is what you make of it, no more, no less. If you choose to live in poverty, that is your choice and no one is to blame but yourself. Yes, it means you have to work a little harder then you already are but don't you think that working harder for say 2 years to get an associates degree is better then suffering for your whole life?

I never said that we were better or worse, just that our area makes education a priority, period. There are plenty of areas that do NOT.

First of all, it must be nice to live in your rainbow world where everything is easier because you worked hard. God forbid you be struck with a chronic illness like I was, where I had to drop my work hours because I can not work a full time job, or someone in your household gets laid off. Real problems happen to real people, with college educations that have worked hard to get where they were.

Just because someone lives in a school district with people below the poverty line doesn't necessarily mean they too are poverty stricken.

We live in a small suburb in a nice area, and there are many areas within 10 miles of us that are subsidized housing, run down trailer parks, and extended stay motels that attend our schools. Our school is a 4 star school (something they have to test for every 3-5 years) and their money is spent on educating children who don't speak English, providing free and reduced lunches and teachers aides, not on computers for kids to take home. Our school doesn't make education any less of a priority than yours, they just have different children to contend with.

 

[NotUrsula]

Ah, I told myself I was done here, but I just can't resist saying one more thing: Those of us who HAVE managed to pull off Golfgal's "bootstrap" miracles almost universally feel that we succeeded in spite of the schools that went to, not because of them.

It wasn't about any material thing that we were given until we got to the point of needing merit scholarships or Federal grants to pay college tuition. What came before was much less tangible -- we did what we had to to survive and to overcome, sometimes because it was expected by our parents, but much more often just because we wanted to -- that particular drive is one that has to come from inside you if it is going to bear fruit. (And I'm not going to allow this to become a political thread, but the reality is that there are a lot fewer college grant dollars available to poor kids than there were 25 years ago -- check the Chronicle of Higher Ed for more information on that topic.)

To swing this back to the original topic, just how much of a prayer do you think those disadvantaged kids will have at getting that really great grant or scholarship to that wonderful private college if they can't manage that longhand essay on the SAT? So-called cursive does have some value to MOST people who have to write by hand in their everyday lives. Some people can print just as fast, but the norm is that cursive is faster. I'd say it's good to use what works best for you in whatever context it's appropriate, but don't lets discount the value of teaching kids both and giving them that choice.

I'm wondering if this trend is global? I'm betting that it is not, and that matters, too.

 

[luvsJack]

Which ones is the question, and beyond that, it is important to keep in mind that even if we keep only some of "old knowledge" as we add "new knowledge" into the mix, we still ending up with an ever-increasing amount of knowledge overall.

Neither do I: Learning to grow food is far more critical in case technology fails us.

Math skills without the use of computers or calculators or computerized cash registers, imho, is important. The simple skill of writing is also important and writing correctly with correct puncuation, spelling and grammer (without spell/grammer check). These are things that are used in the daily living of life.

Of course the need for food would be more critical if technology failed, but I wasn't really referring to all technology suddenly crashing. I simply meant that a cashier hitting the wrong button on a register can result in it showing the wrong change amount and she/he needs to have the mathmatical knowledge to spot it.

 

[Art 1]

I did not know this. My youngest is 18 and was taught cursive. I'm glad that she was and am shocked that some schools are not teaching this.

Do they still teach multiplying and division by memory?

 

[luvsJack]

Finances (being poor or wealthy) have nothing to do with it-there are "poor" people in our school district too. Again, it comes down to priorities. There are plenty of people around the country that don't make very much money but make sure their kids get a good education and make sure they have what they need to do so. The districts in our state that have the highest per pupil funding are the worst school districts in the state. Our district is right in the middle nationally for per pupil funding. We are not exploding at the seams with money by any means. We have a 15 MILLION dollar shortfall from the state funds coming up and the community has to vote on a referendum this fall. They did a survey and 87% of the parents backed the increase in taxes. Yes, it is going to stretch some budgets but people are willing to make that sacrifice.

There are plenty of districts in our state that do NOT have that support and are closing schools, cutting programs, etc.

The man that headed up the fundraiser to get those computers worked a HECK of a lot more then 40 hours/week. Yes, he was a prominent business man and was financially well off but he also traveled 3 weeks out of 4 at least, worked at LEAST 12 hours/day, has 5 kids that all went through the school but saw a need to get it done so he did.

FYI: Our kids ARE getting a good education and it IS a priority.

And we have parents that do all that and more. We are a small school and the same people are raising money for the school as well as for activities such as show choir or cheerleading. There are only so many hours in a week no matter how you slice it.

Our PTO put in one of the computer labs, too. So we now have two labs for three grades (6th-8th, about 90 kids) plus the computers in each classroom below 6th grade. We are hoping to put another lab in this year. But large essays, projects, etc. take an enormous amount of computer time. Even with the labs, dd will spend a lot of time working on her's at home too.

And so the fact still remains, there are many kids who do not have computers at home. There is nothing the school, PTO or any of the other parents can do about that. As for allowing them to stay after school to work in the lab, there is MUCH more to that than money. A teacher to stay after, liability insurance to cover the students, transportation from the school, insurance for that transportation, etc. etc. Its just not about money.

 

[bethbuchall]

I did not know this. My youngest is 18 and was taught cursive. I'm glad that she was and am shocked that some schools are not teaching this.

Do they still teach multiplying and division by memory?

Yes, though Everyday Math (which I can't stand) seems to discourage it.

 

[GJM]

Everyday Math has got to be the worse! I have not found 1 parent that likes it or teacher - They skip over & jump around so much with Everyday Math -

Our school also does not teach cursive, some classes did teach it, my DS class never did - but in 3rd. grade they had to write their spelling words for the week in cursive, but for the test they could print.

Plus his technology class (computers) all they do are Compass - not teaching the computer or keyboarding.

 

[Art 1]

Yes, though Everyday Math (which I can't stand) seems to discourage it.

What is every day math?

 

[GJM]

You don't even want to know!

It is a new way of teaching Math - but when my DS goes into 6th. grade they will teach Math the way we all learned it.

The way they teach division is crazy they use a lattice method, plus they don't stay on 1 area long enough for the to get it - If you go on YouTube there is a video about 15 minutes long the woman did a report on it and showed division and multiplying the way we learned and the Everyday Math way.

Plus if our kids need help with Math - we don't know how to do it and you try and show them how we do it and they keep saying that isn't how they are teaching us!

 

[Art 1]

You don't even want to know!

It is a new way of teaching Math - but when my DS goes into 6th. grade they will teach Math the way we all learned it.

The way they teach division is crazy they use a lattice method, plus they don't stay on 1 area long enough for the to get it - If you go on YouTube there is a video about 15 minutes long the woman did a report on it and showed division and multiplying the way we learned and the Everyday Math way.

Plus if our kids need help with Math - we don't know how to do it and you try and show them how we do it and they keep saying that isn't how they are teaching us!

Thanks for the reply, I think if the schools went back to teaching the way they did 40 or 50 years ago things would be better.

Mine went to an old fashioned school I guess. I never really thought about it at the time. Last one just graduated this past year. They had Mass every Wednesday. Prayers before each class. Every senior went on to school, they first half of the class pertty much had their choice of school. The sports teams dominate each year, most of the senior baseball players get drafted. I think every girl basketball player got a scholarship of some kind this past year. If a student misbehaves they are punished, if it keeps up they get thrown out. I think the old way of schooling is better.

My dad tells of in his day they sat the students by smartest to dumbest, imagine getting away with that now.

 

[GJM]

Not all schools use it, my DS old school in NJ (which I miss) never used it.

 

[C.Ann]

She wasn't offended, so why are you??

And I made the jist of "we usually some how include Disney into everything too", to make my point that I wasn't being mean about it. But something I've noticed from her posts since she made the topic like 3 months ago about wanting to study the Amish.

Had to pop back in here for a minute to clarify this situation.. I was in no way offended by Sandra's post - nor do I believe that it was meant as any sort of "dig"..

I am definitely thoroughy absorbed in learning all I can about the Amish - for the reasons previously stated - and by the looks of my PM box, many, many others are as well - across every age group.. Perhaps my mentioning tidbits of info in amongst my posts has also helped them to realize how much of what people "think" they know about the Amish is based on myths, assumptions, inaccuracies, and plain old lack of factual knowledge.. I was in that group myself - until I decided to put forth the effort obtain actual facts -and if people are interested in educating themselves in that area, I am more than happy to answer any questions they have - or work with them to find the answers - since I still have so much to learn myself..

Botton line? No offense taken - and if I'm boring you to tears with my fascination in regards to studying the Amish; listing books that others may be interested in; sharing Amish recipes; etc. - feel free to ignore me.. I promise I won't be upset..

-----------------

Back to the original topic - which I may jump back into a little later on..