Kids, driving, and what comes before. . .

[Mickey'snewestfan]

To give you a sense of where I'm coming from. I live in a super walkable place. From my house you can easily walk to about 20 restaurants, 2 "regular" grocery stores plus Trader Joe's and Whole Foods, several libraries, public schools of all levels, a variety of private schools, the park, the movies, the hardware store etc . . . You can also hop on the subway and be downtown in 20 minutes and walk to even more.

So for me, and my friends who are parents, driving is seen as a privilege for teens, as in "maybe, if you've proven yourself to be responsible, and are keeping your grades up, and pay your own insurance, I'll consider letting you take drivers ed. If you're really good, I might even let you borrow the car once in a while." I know lots of high school kids who choose not to bother learning to drive in high school (or whose parents don't let them), and don't know any with their own cars. I also don't think I know any undergraduates with cars, and I know many professional adults who don't have them either.

Of course I know that most of the country isn't like where I live, and that many people consider a car for their teenager indispensible.

What I wonder is, if you're planning on letting your kid drive at 16, what do people do to get their kid ready. I was on another thread and people were saying that they plan on walking their kids to the school bus stop until they're 16, at which point they'll drive to school. I can't really wrap my mind around a kid who isn't ready to navigate the streets on foot one day and is ready to do so in a vehicle, that has the potential to kill people, the next. I'm a pretty "free range" parent in a lot of ways, partially because my walkable neighborhood is full of walkers so there's lots of eyes to add to the safety, and while I sometimes worry about my kid when he's out and about, I'm always thinking "if he doesn't have these experiences now, how is he going to be ready for the responsibilities of adulthood?"

Anyway, I'm rambling. My question is, if you let your 16 year old drive, or plan on doing so, what comes first -- how do they show you that they're responsible? How do you get them ready? Are there experiences you'd want them to have first? I'm not thinking of the obvious -- like parrallel parking or driver's ed, but the ones that build the cognitive skills like how to solve problems on your own without panicking.

 

[MushyMushy]

I guess maturity level has a LOT to do with my decision, obviously, but also impulsivity levels, reaction times, sense of direction, and spatial vision. Also behavior plays into it. If you're still doing stupid things and misbehaving at 16, there's no way I'm putting you on the streets!

When I was a kid, driving came naturally for me. I was just one of those people who automatically knew how to steer and judge speeds and distances around the car, so that played into my decision too. My son wasn't nearly ready at 16, and I was so surprised that HE knew that too. He grew up a lot between 16 and 17, so he got his license after 17. He was just plain awkward behind the wheel, so he drove on a permit for a long time. My daughter is more like me and seems to naturally know what to do. She'll be 15 next month and I don't foresee any problems letting her get her permit and license as soon as she's old enough.

Oh, and we live in one of those areas where you pretty much need a car. I would love to be somewhere that we could take a bus or subway!

 

[dakcp2001]

They need a Drivers Ed class that SCARES the heck out of them into being a reponsible driver. They need to attend a lecture from the MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) and to practice the actual driving skill I recommend a cemetary to practice in. There are streets and intersections in there and usually not many people or other cars.

 

[golfgal]

We have told our kids that just because they are old enough doesn't mean they GET to drive. We have given our kids a lot of responsibility over the years and with that they have earned a lot of freedom. We let them take driver's ed classes when they were old enough and with their permits they have to prove they are responsible enough to drive a car. DS18 was not anxious to get his license and probably wouldn't even have one now if he didn't NEED to drive. He wanted to take a class at a different high school and needed to drive to get there. The choice was his, get a license and drive or don't take the class. He chose to take the class and is a very responsible driver.

DS15 is also a very responsible driver and will be able to get his license when he is 16. DD15 has good driving skills but needs to focus more on driving and less on everything else around her. If she can't figure this out in the next 6 months, she won't be getting her license until she does and if she does, she will have a lot more limitations on her driving then the boys to start.

As far as insurance goes, we told them that as long as they are on the B honor roll or better we will pay for the insurance, if they are not on the B honor roll or better, they have to pay. The twins are A students so not an issue, DS18 did enough, barely, to stay on the B honor roll because he KNEW how much it would cost him if he wasn't.

I am also with you wondering how parents think they are helping their kids by not letting them grow up and what happens at the tick of midnight that all of the sudden makes them "responsible" enough to do something.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

They need a Drivers Ed class that SCARES the heck out of them into being a reponsible driver. They need to attend a lecture from the MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) and to practice the actual driving skill I recommend a cemetary to practice in. There are streets and intersections in there and usually not many people or other cars.

I agree 100% with all that. I guess I'm not thinking so much about those skills. I'm thinking in terms of things like:

Getting lost, and then figuring out how to get back where you're supposed to be. (Something I'd rather have my kid encounter without the added stress of a car).

Dealing with an unknown authority figure on your own (Before a police officer pulls you over the first time).

Realizing your late for something, and juggling your priorities/making the right choice. (Again, kids will make mistakes with this one, so I'd rather they make that mistake before the consequences is maybe speeding/crashing/dieing).

I guess what I'm wondering is, if kids haven't had the chance to learn to navigate the world on their own (e.g. go places alone or with another kid their age) on foot or public transportation, how do you help them to learn how to do it in a car. I'm thinking both of those kids who live in places where the car is the only option, so parents CAN'T let them go places on their own, and kids whose parents walk them to bus stop at 16.

 

[indimom]

No subways or public transportation here. BUT, no major traffic issues either. We'll most likely teach them ourselves when the time comes. I don't know if I'm exactly "free range" but my kids do walk to school, do cook on the stove, do ride bikes on busy streets, etc.. So I hope I'm raising them to have some common sense, enough to get them by...

 

[golfgal]

I agree 100% with all that. I guess I'm not thinking so much about those skills. I'm thinking in terms of things like:

Getting lost, and then figuring out how to get back where you're supposed to be. (Something I'd rather have my kid encounter without the added stress of a car).

Dealing with an unknown authority figure on your own (Before a police officer pulls you over the first time).

Realizing your late for something, and juggling your priorities/making the right choice. (Again, kids will make mistakes with this one, so I'd rather they make that mistake before the consequences is maybe speeding/crashing/dieing).

I guess what I'm wondering is, if kids haven't had the chance to learn to navigate the world on their own (e.g. go places alone or with another kid their age) on foot or public transportation, how do you help them to learn how to do it in a car. I'm thinking both of those kids who live in places where the car is the only option, so parents CAN'T let them go places on their own, and kids whose parents walk them to bus stop at 16.

These are the EXACT things that these helicopter parents just DON'T get. You start out small like letting them pick out an outfit when they are 2 or picking what to have for dinner. Then as they get older you do things like making them clean their room before they can go out to play so they understand consequences (if the room isn't clean, you don't get to play). Then you let them play in the back yard alone when they are 4 or 5 so they can show you that they can go out to the back yard and stay there like they are supposed to. As they get even older, they get to walk to a friends' house down the street and come back when they are supposed to. It all builds on itself.

There is NO WAY a child that has never been left alone or let play outside without direct supervision will be ready to drive at 16.

As far as getting lost and finding your way around-DS18 is what we call "directionally challenged". He uses the GPS, a lot .

 

[holycow]

Where do you live??? I want to move there! I'd love to walk to all of that!

 

[Christine]

To be honest, there was no way to prep my kids in the way you are describing. Our area is TOTALLY unwalkable plus my kids went/go to private school so there was no "going to the busstop" on your own. They were always either driven 8 miles away to the major private school bus stop, or they were driven directly to their own private school. I really had no means to get them "street smart" prior to getting out in a car on their own.

For my daughter, her school was 20 miles from our home and she used a bus service which was a real drag. The minute she got her license at 16 years and 3 months, she was driving herself to and from school. I was really nervous, but very quickly she was able to navigate in and around the area where her school was and she knows all the roads in the county that her school and friends lived in. So she got her "street smarts" on her own.

My 15 y/o son is on his learner's permit now. All we can really do is take him out driving a lot. He is very mature in most ways and makes great decisions already (much more so than his sister did) so I think by the time he gets his license I will be okay with it (as much as a parent can be).

 

[Acklander]

When DS26 was a teen we lived in an area where you didn't need a car. Pretty much everything that he needed to get to was within 3 or 4 miles. I still considered it a necessity for him to learn to drive and have lots of practice doing it - it's an important life skill. Just because we lived in a walkable area at that time doesn't mean he was going to spend his life there.

I don't know what thread you're referring to that you can't walk to the bus stop one day, but are allowed to drive to school the next day - all I can say is, wow.

 

[golfgal]

To be honest, there was no way to prep my kids in the way you are describing. Our area is TOTALLY unwalkable plus my kids went/go to private school so there was no "going to the busstop" on your own. They were always either driven 8 miles away to the major private school bus stop, or they were driven directly to their own private school. I really had no means to get them "street smart" prior to getting out in a car on their own.

For my daughter, her school was 20 miles from our home and she used a bus service which was a real drag. The minute she got her license at 16 years and 3 months, she was driving herself to and from school. I was really nervous, but very quickly she was able to navigate in and around the area where her school was and she knows all the roads in the county that her school and friends lived in. So she got her "street smarts" on her own.

My 15 y/o son is on his learner's permit now. All we can really do is take him out driving a lot. He is very mature in most ways and makes great decisions already (much more so than his sister did) so I think by the time he gets his license I will be okay with it (as much as a parent can be).

How is your area totally unwalkable? Busy streets? A 15 year old should be able to handle walking on a busy street. Gangs--ok, I wouldn't want my kid walking in gang land either. What makes your area unwalkable?

 

[Christine]

How is your area totally unwalkable? Busy streets? A 15 year old should be able to handle walking on a busy street. Gangs--ok, I wouldn't want my kid walking in gang land either. What makes your area unwalkable?

By unwalkable, I mean that you can't get anywhere from a house as the OP can. We are not walkable distance to any stores, libraries, schools, movie theaters, etc. We are typical suburban sprawl. When people in our area talk about 'walkability' it is in terms of can you get anywhere when you walk--to your job, to public transit, to commerce.

But yes, my 15 y/o son routinely "walks" the dog for 2 miles and practices his cross country runs. In that regard, we can walk.

 

[aprilgail2]

What I wonder is, if you're planning on letting your kid drive at 16, what do people do to get their kid ready. I was on another thread and people were saying that they plan on walking their kids to the school bus stop until they're 16, at which point they'll drive to school. I can't really wrap my mind around a kid who isn't ready to navigate the streets on foot one day and is ready to do so in a vehicle, that has the potential to kill people, the next. I'm a pretty "free range" parent in a lot of ways, partially because my walkable neighborhood is full of walkers so there's lots of eyes to add to the safety, and while I sometimes worry about my kid when he's out and about, I'm always thinking "if he doesn't have these experiences now, how is he going to be ready for the responsibilities of adulthood?"

.

I can't even wrap my brain around walking a kid to the bus stop at 16 years old! My daughter will be a high school senior at 16-- do I say "oh honey wait for mommy to get dressed to walk you to the big bad bus stop" OMG--- what are these parents thinking? We are going to have an entire generation of kids that can't think or fend for themselves without mommys helicopter blades hovering over their heads! My neighborhood is not totally "walkable" but where there are no sidewalks she just walks in the street- she walks or rides her bike 7 blocks and 2 avenues to her friends house on her own (GASP-- better call CPS on me!!!). She does text when she gets there so those strings are not totally cut yet but she is 10 years old still. Oh and she goes to the park 2 blocks over to meet her friends too!!
My daughter will get her permit at 16 just as I did unless she is a total screw up! She will miss out on drivers ed in school since she will not be old enough to take it in her senior year but I will get her some type of driving course.

 

[golfgal]

By unwalkable, I mean that you can't get anywhere from a house as the OP can. We are not walkable distance to any stores, libraries, schools, movie theaters, etc. We are typical suburban sprawl. When people in our area talk about 'walkability' it is in terms of can you get anywhere when you walk--to your job, to public transit, to commerce.

But yes, my 15 y/o son routinely "walks" the dog for 2 miles and practices his cross country runs. In that regard, we can walk.

Ok, but you let your kids walk to friends' houses, etc. right? We have a pretty walkable suburb, very safe, etc. Our neighbors behind us STILL walk their kids to the bus stop-one house away-their kids are in 10th grade and 6th grade. Their kids are not allowed out of their yard without a parent. Their oldest has her permit. I don't know how they think she will be ready to drive in a few months having never been able to make decisions on her own or never going anywhere without a parent.

 

[golfgal]

I can't even wrap my brain around walking a kid to the bus stop at 16 years old! My daughter will be a high school senior at 16-- do I say "oh honey wait for mommy to get dressed to walk you to the big bad bus stop" OMG--- what are these parents thinking? We are going to have an entire generation of kids that can't think or fend for themselves without mommys helicopter blades hovering over their heads! My neighborhood is not totally "walkable" but where there are no sidewalks she just walks in the street- she walks or rides her bike 7 blocks and 2 avenues to her friends house on her own (GASP-- better call CPS on me!!!). She does text when she gets there so those strings are not totally cut yet but she is 10 years old still. Oh and she goes to the park 2 blocks over to meet her friends too!!
My daughter will get her permit at 16 just as I did unless she is a total screw up! She will miss out on drivers ed in school since she will not be old enough to take it in her senior year but I will get her some type of driving course.

A SENIOR at 16

There was a girl in our neighborhood that got walked to the bus stop by her mom all through high school--there are about 20 kids at the bus stop so it isn't like she was standing alone in the dark.

 

[RitaE]

I guess my kid's driving really never scared me all that much.

I didn't grow up on a farm but I did live in an area that was heavily rural. Most of us were driving tractors of one form or another by the time we were 10 to 12 years old at least. Dirt bikes and all of that. We would drive the trucks around the dirt roads and out to the fields well before we were 16 and nobody cared. By the time we actually entered Driver's Ed at 15 most of us already knew how to drive and were just putting in seat time. To me I just naturally assume that most people by the time they are 16 years old should be able to learn to handle a car just fine.

My sons both took Driver's Ed as soon as they were able and the State Law now requires months of Driving under a permit before they can get their license. I can't remember exactly how many months but I think it was like 9 or 10. I was okay with that but it seemed like overkill to me. By the time they got their license they were both pretty good drivers and I had no qualms at all about letting them drive up to school and around town. Maybe not rush hour Interstate traffic but up to the movies? Sure.

The do attempt the scare the crap out of them thing in Driver's Ed - really to the point where I think it became a joke to the kids. My oldest son and his friends used to joke about their daily dose of blood and gore. Oh Nooooooooooo, look! A Train!"

 

[Christine]

Ok, but you let your kids walk to friends' houses, etc. right? We have a pretty walkable suburb, very safe, etc. Our neighbors behind us STILL walk their kids to the bus stop-one house away-their kids are in 10th grade and 6th grade. Their kids are not allowed out of their yard without a parent. Their oldest has her permit. I don't know how they think she will be ready to drive in a few months having never been able to make decisions on her own or never going anywhere without a parent.

If they had friends in the neighborhood, yes, I would. Since my DD was in private school in another county, her friends were there. None of my son's friends live within 8 miles of us.

But, as I said, he does walk the dog in the neighborhood. When he goes out on his runs, he goes out of the neighborhood, crosses a 4-lane road, and goes running in a neighborhood that is much more suitable for running a long distance.

 

[SC Minnie]

Our area is not walker friendly either. There aren't sidewalks in my neighborhood. The bus stop for the HS is at the entrance to the neighborhood at a street that is extremely busy (runs parallel to the interstate and people use it as a cut through). From our neighborhood there is no way to safely walk to the school (about 5 miles away). We have several grocery stores near here but all are 3-5 miles and again busy roads and no sidewalks.

DD16 has been driving for a year. When she got her permit I let her learn the basics of driving on our street. She took 9 hours of drivers ed with 8 of those behind the wheel. She also had to do 40 hours of driving with us before trying for her road test. Our insurance co also had her fill out this booklet about her driving.

 

[Christine]

A SENIOR at 16

When I started by senior year, I was 16 y/o and turned 17 in December. My birthday is December 30 and December 31st was the kindergarten cutoff in Maryland at that time. So I was 4 when I started Kindergarten.

 

[DVCLiz]

I agree 100% with all that. I guess I'm not thinking so much about those skills. I'm thinking in terms of things like:

Getting lost, and then figuring out how to get back where you're supposed to be. (Something I'd rather have my kid encounter without the added stress of a car).

Dealing with an unknown authority figure on your own (Before a police officer pulls you over the first time).

Realizing your late for something, and juggling your priorities/making the right choice. (Again, kids will make mistakes with this one, so I'd rather they make that mistake before the consequences is maybe speeding/crashing/dieing).

I guess what I'm wondering is, if kids haven't had the chance to learn to navigate the world on their own (e.g. go places alone or with another kid their age) on foot or public transportation, how do you help them to learn how to do it in a car. I'm thinking both of those kids who live in places where the car is the only option, so parents CAN'T let them go places on their own, and kids whose parents walk them to bus stop at 16.

Really, my daughter didn't have much "official" practice with any of those things until she was driving. We live in a typical suburb and although she could walk to the local drugstore and one small shopping center, there wasn't anything else in walking distance. Oh, she could walk to the pool in the summer.

I suppose her only real introduction to some of those issues was being allowed as a preteen to go to the local shopping center (not out local mall) and go from store to store, over to the movie theater, to another part of the shopping center for a dinner with friends, etc. Learning to navigate around the shopping center, deal with store clerks, security guards, etc. gave her some of those skills.

Of course being in school also provides some of that same training. Learning to deal with a variety of teachers and administrators, finding your way from class to class, etc. was good practice.

But, really, she learned all of those things while she was in the car, so I suppose I don't agree with your idea that students must have all of those things down pat before they get behind the wheel of a car.

My daughter has a terrible sense of direction so I gave her a GPS the day she got her license. Still, she asked to go to Panera for dinner the next night and instead of going to the one 8 blocks from our house, she followed the GPS directions for another one that was about 8 miles away near the interstate highway. I got a teary phone call - but she found her way back home eventually and my soup was still warm! We tease her about it now but it was trauamatic at the time.

I don't think anything can really prepare you for getting pulled by a police officer, so we focus on prevention. Don't speed, don't speed, don't speed is the drill at our house.

As far as being late for something, I don't think there is a good way to practice that when you are still being driven by your parents and not independently. Again, I think of that as a learn on the job skill. Along with driving comes the responsibility of getting up early enough to get where you are supposed to be without speeding. The rule at our house is get up in time to leave by quarter to 8 or you don't drive yourself that day.

I guess the point I'm trying to make with all this rambling is that you can't be sure kids will have these skills down pat before you put them behind the wheel, and for me that's not a reason to keep them from driving.