Kerry and Bush supporters. A question for y'all.

[Lebjwb]

This should add a bit of fuel to the fire;


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=7&u=/nm/20040822/pl_nm/campaign_ads_dc

BTW....SOLID Kerry and proud of it!

 

[Feralpeg]

Firm Kerry.

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by Lebjwb
This should add a bit of fuel to the fire;


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=7&u=/nm/20040822/pl_nm/campaign_ads_dc

BTW....SOLID Kerry and proud of it!

"Col. Cordier did not inform the campaign of his involvement in the advertisement being run by (Swift Boat Veterans for Truth)," Schmidt said. "Because of his involvement with this 527 (group), Col. Cordier will no longer participate" in the steering committee. "

Yeah right, like they don't investigate and check backgrounds on every person who comes within a mile of working for them. Looks like he's just the first to fall on his sword....

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by Saffron
Does it always make breaking news though when a politican tells a lie, 20 years ago, that had no consequences attached to it except causing credibility issues? He didn't lie to cover up something, start something, accuse somebody of something. Hell, I have no idea why he did it, if he did it!

Saffron--I'll try to explain why I personally have a problem with it.

I think you're right about the issue of lying in general--particularly someone who's been in the public eye for so long. You'd never vote for anyone if that was grounds to discount a candidate. I think a lot of politicians lie or do underhanded things, not because they're bad people but because they've come to have a mindset that they're doing good things for the people and it's worth it to be able to continue doing good things. It becomes a justification of sorts. I think most politicians get into politics in the first place because they think they can change the world for the better. Somewhere along the line it gets to be more about staying in power than doing those good things for some of them.

It's not the lie, it's the motivation. To me, the Cambodia lie (and his campaign has come out and said that he wasn't there, I believe) just adds to my suspicions that Kerry is more concerned about his public image or presenting ideas that he thinks people want to hear and will vote for than he is about implementing his own ideas of what is the right or wrong way to do things. He seems to have been willing to lie about being in Cambodia in order to embellish his story and make the other side look worse and worse. And he seems to have been willing to discard the impact on the men he served with in order to get to that next political step.

That's what it seems to me, not saying I know this for a fact. And that concerns me because I think it's somewhat dangerous to legislate and lead according to the polls. That's what I worry he would do. When President Clinton was elected, I did believe, and believed throughout his presidency, that he wanted to do good things. I disagreed with his idea of how to get there, but I believed he wanted to be president for the same reason moms run for the PTO or local citizens run for the county board--they think they can make things better than what they are, they have great ideas. I just don't get that same feeling about Kerry--I feel like he wants to be president because...he wants to be president.

So that explains why the Cambodia story is important--it supports my belief about his motivations. I don't think he was this impassioned guy who got back from Vietnam and felt he had no choice but to try to end this horrible war. I feel like he saw a political opportunity and went with it.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by bsnyder
I do understand where you're coming from. Maybe I just have a much more cynical view of politics, and politicians, than you do. The dirty campaigning has been going on forever, and both sides do it.

Of course they do. I have long wondered how much Kerry knew about what Joe Wilson did.

He was Kerry's top foreign policy advisor when he was making those false claims. He was supposed to speak at the Democratic Convention. They seem to have dropped him like a hot potato. He was with MoveOn, as are current Kerry staffers. I truly don't believe any amount of campaign finance reform will sever ties between campaigns and these groups. They will find a way to coordinate.

 

[fuzzylogic]

A good place to go is http://www.factcheck.org

 

[peachgirl]

He was Kerry's top foreign policy advisor when he was making those false claims. He was supposed to speak at the Democratic Convention. They seem to have dropped him like a hot potato. He was with MoveOn, as are current Kerry staffers

Getting your posting tips from freepers now?

 

[we3luvdisney]

University of Missouri-Columbia Professor William Benoit is the guru of political ads, and he’s been studying the percentage of negative statements in this season’s presidential spots.

According to a summary of Benoit’s work issued by MU, 44 percent of statements in George W. Bush’s television ads have been negative, compared to 50 percent in Web ads and 53 percent in radio ads.

On the other hand, 15 percent of statements in Kerry’s TV ads were negative, compared to 87.5 percent in Web ads and 80 percent in a single radio ad.

But Benoit also noted most "non-candidate ads" attack Bush.

The complete link

 

[bsnyder]

Zack Exley
Currently - Kerry-Edwards campaign Internet Director
Formerly - Moveon.org Internet Director

Jim Jordan
Currently - Manager of The Media Fund
Formerly - Kerry Campaign Manager

 

[peachgirl]

Yes, but when you count in the SBVT ads I'm quite sure those percentages would change.

My my, we seem to be running from defending the swift liars all of a sudden.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Getting your posting tips from freepers now?

What is freepers? I tried to check it out by googling freepers.com and get nothing.

 

[kbeverina]

And are you trying to say that Joe Wilson has not been proven to be a liar?

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Yes, but when you count in the SBVT ads I'm quite sure those percentages would change.

My my, we seem to be running from defending the swift liars all of a sudden.

If you're going to count the SBVT ads, surely you have to include the moveon.org ads and the Media fund ads, and the America Coming Together ads.

In case you missed the summary I posted earlier (maybe it was on another thread?)

Looking at the top forty-nine 527 organizations, we find:

#1: The Joint Victory Campaign. The sole purpose of this organization is to raise funds for the number two ranked Media Fund and number three ranked America Coming Together. Both organizations are dedicated to defeating George Bush. This organization sports no less than thirty-three individuals who have given more money than Bob Perry, twelve who have given at least one million dollars, with the largest contributor shelling out $7.75 million. George Soros has given more than $4.5 million to this organization.

#2: The Media Fund. This "Anybody but Bush" group has put together and paid for multiple TV ads that play in the battle-ground states. They are funded to the tune of over $28 million, almost half of which comes from the number one ranked Joint Victory Campaign. More than $5.5 million has come from employee unions.

#3: America Coming Together. Also against Bush, also helped by the Joint Victory Campaign, also a baby of George Soros ($5 million) and Peter Lewis (almost $3 million).

#4 & #5: The Service Employees International Union and the American Federationn of State/County/Municiple Employees More than $16 and $13 million respectively. Both are unions and hence partisan Democratic fronts.

Those are just the first five of the forty-nine. More staggering is when we step back and look at the forest, not the trees. Of the top forty-nine 527 organizations:

Forty one (84%) are supported by Democrats and push Democrat causes.

Only five are supported by Republicans and push Republican causes.


Three are issue or industry oriented (like Peter Lewis' Marijuana Policy Project).


The Democrat funding totals $176 million compared to the Republican total of $10.8 million.

 

[GarrettJD]

I will vote for Kerry, even though I do try to read everything on both sides of the political spectrum. I work in a bookstore, and we have a HUGE variety of books representing just about every viewpoint imaginable.

I really do believe that Kerry would be a strong leader and a great President. I just don't have any confidence in George W. Bush-- I didn't in 2000 (voted for Nader) and I don't now.

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by kbeverina
What is freepers? I tried to check it out by googling freepers.com and get nothing.

Yeah, right.

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Yeah, right.

Actually, if you do a search for freepers.com on Google, you really do get nothing. (See - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=freepers.com )

Uh, back to lurking...

 

[peachgirl]

I know, I tried it. That's not what I'm laughing about.

Just as an aside....if google "freepers" you get plenty.

Let's just say I don't believe in coincidence.

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by peachgirl
I know, I tried it. That's not what I'm laughing about.

Just as an aside....if google "freepers" you get plenty.

Let's just say I don't believe in coincidence.

So you were laughing at the first statement and not the second one. Ah.

And I did Google "freepers" cuz I've heard of it but don't actually know what it stands for.

Oh, and really back to lurking now...

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Saffron


What makes me sick, is that now of these other false, disgusting, horrible allegations have been thrown around about Kerry, people may doubt his service record and believe all the other bogus stuff, and that makes me want to hurl.

Man I must be losing my mind for jumping back in to this.

I only want to address the information put forth by Kerry himself in those TV interviews. Nothing else. Ok?

I will admit that there's no proof that Kerry murdered anyone (my assumption because he participated in free-fire zones) For all we know, he could have been shooting blanks to make it appear that he was following orders.

Those ARE *possibly* false allegations. Most likely the only one who knows is Kerry if he saw someone go down while he was firing his weapon.

The fact (not an allegation) remains that Kerry himself admitted to committing actions that are considered war crimes.

You say you can't label him a war criminal. Fine. But a military court would most likely think otherwise. None of this takes away
from the fact that he committed those actions.

So with this, and the Christmas in Cambodia issue does indeed throw a spotlight on his entire military career. He brought it upon himself.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
I read a story today of a young man who came home to Texas from Iraq minus one arm. He had won a purple heart. And he was saying that 20 years from now it would mean nothing. He said to his father: "Your hero Bush talks about soldiers all the time but when a veteran runs, he calls him a coward and a liar---what do you think people like that will turn my service into if I ever gave them a chance?"

The father called Kerry's injuries "nothing like yours, they were scratches" Jimmy told him: "any wound is serious and if no one has ever shot at you, you don't know what you are talking about. I won't judge another soldier's injuries---good for him he didn't lose a limb!"


His parents tried to say that he misunderstood, that the "Kerry situation was different and it was not Bush but fellow veterans doing the campaign to 'tell the truth' " but Jimmy cut his father off and said that if "Bush trashes one of us, he trashes us all. I don't know anyone who is voting for that *******. They turned the TV off in the hospital because when he came on we threw things."

I am unable to provide a link for this, so you can choose to disbelieve if you will. But it is true. The ripples from this have only begun, no matter who wins this election.

Unless I'm mistaken, other than saying Kerry served honorably, Bush has NOT trashed Kerry's military record at all.

But the other hand, hasn't Kerry himself made comments about Bush's military record? And how people used the NG to avoid going to VN?