Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis found in contempt, going to jail

[TLSnell1981]

So, not doing the job she was elected to do and then further ordered to do. Thus the contempt charges and the trip to jail. You just reinforced the fact that she is not being jailed for her beliefs and is simply being jailed for not doing her job.

It's a no win situation. She is protesting due to her beliefs, but not discriminating, while doing so. Obviously, she is following counsel's advice.

What other duties does her job entail?

 

[experiment_6two6]

She didn't issue marriage licenses to anyone, after the ruling. At least, this is my understanding. I don't think, this will be the only instance we see.

I may not agree with what she is doing, but Kim Davis is standing by her convictions and must live with the consequences. No different, than other folks with a cause.

I understand she isn't issuing marriage licenses to anyone, but my point was that all these people who are shouting "religious freedom" would be shouting "she broke a law" in that instance. Do you really think that all the people who are claiming she has religious freedom to deny people their right to get married would also support her if she was a lesbian claiming her beliefs did not allow heterosexuals (or anyone for that matter, since she wasn't allowing anyone) to get married?

If you honestly believe they would stick up for that, then invite me to that world, because I would love to be part of it!

 

[gwynne]

It's a no win situation. She is protesting due to her beliefs, but not discriminating, while doing so. Obviously, she is following counsel's advice.

What other duties does her job entail?

Yea, about her attorney (counsel). I think the organization/ attorney that is backing her is likely making a tidy profit. They know it's the law. They don't have to explain that little detail to their up in arms donors.

I don't think they are providing her with very good counsel, their advice sped her right to jail. But, on the other hand, while she's there I'm sure the money keeps rolling in. Ethical?

 

[sam_gordon]

Because she only began enforcing "Christian law" on this issue, and did issue marriage licenses before to people who had violated other Christian dicta. She is, therefore, a hypocrite, as she says she cannot violate her faith, but has done so previously on other issues also anathema to the Christian faith. It's actually quite straight forward and simple.

By her denying to issue ANY licences, I don't feel she's "selectively enforcing" anything. She is wrong, and should have resigned as soon as she decided she couldn't fulfill her duties. But she is not discriminating against gays, divorcees, adulterers, or anyone. She's treating them all the same and not handing out marriage licenses.

 

[Wishing on a star]

but I don't agree that she was judging.

Maybe in her mind this was her way of taking a stand against a law she believes is wrong. Like a doctor who won't perform an abortion.

You don't think she is judging... Bwahhahahahahahah!!!!!!!

And, please, do not not even go there by bringing abortion into this.
Not even close.
Not EVEN close.

Let's start with the fact that a Dr. is not an officer of our government.
If a Dr. wants to practice without performing abortions, he is more than welcome to set up his own practice and carry on as he wishes. (Except for basic legal, FDA, regulations, of course.)

This lady is more than welcome to do anything she wishes, UNTIL she is behind that desk/counter at a government office. She can get up, walk out the door, protest, wave 10 foot signs, and sing Kum-bay-yah.... Have at it.

And, no, the voters do not have to vote her out in order to be free from her judgments and violations of everyone's civil rights. You know why... she is in a jail cell.

 

[robinb]

Marriage licenses are now being issued in Rowan county.

 

[Hrhpd]

The oath she took for office:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of ——————— according to law; and I do further solemnly swear (or affirm) that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."

I do not see anywhere in the oath that gives her permission to execute only the things she agrees with.

 

[sam_gordon]

Some more information...

From what I've heard, Davis WILL be collecting her paycheck while incarcerated. In addition, because of her previous time in the clerk's office (serving as deputy clerk under her mother), if she holds the clerk's job until January, she can retire with her $80K pension. Whether that's accurate, I'm not sure. It hasn't been reported yet, but that's the rumor going around.

 

[gwynne]

Marriage licenses are now being issued in Rowan county.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/05/us/kim-davis-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0

 

[JaxDad]

The oath she took for office:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of ——————— according to law; and I do further solemnly swear (or affirm) that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."

The "duel with deadly weapons" stuff is pretty funny. Is that still a problem in Kentucky?

 

[Grmnshplvr]

As I understand it, her "faith" didn't come about until after her divorces and affair. I don't think it's fair to criticize her for something that happened before she "got saved".

well, that's convenient.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Marriage licenses are now being issued in Rowan county.

Thank goodness.

 

[Gracie09]

Like Sam said she was refusing across the board. So she wasn't picking anyone out.

Was she asking them details of their lives? Was she telling them they are wrong? Was she saying anything to them? No. She made the decision not to perform an action because of the facts placed before her. She was choosing not to do something that she believes is wrong. Belief that HER actions would be wrong.

I don't agree with her actions, but I don't agree that she was judging.

Maybe in her mind this was her way of taking a stand against a law she believes is wrong. Like a doctor who won't perform an abortion.

A doctor is not under court order to perform abortions. There is no law compelling a doctor tonperfor abortions.
As for just shutting down the office, that was tried in the 1960s when gov Wallace attempted to shut all public schools rather than integrate them as the ussc ordered. President Johnson ordered the national guard to open the schools. The govt and govt officials cannot deny people their civil rights because of personal beliefs.

 

[Gracie09]

The whole story reminds me an awful lot of the story of an army reserve doctor who worked for the same HMO I worked for in the early 90's. It was a big story here at the time:

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/08/us/clemency-for-army-doctor-who-refused-war-service.html

She actually served 8 months before being granted clemency for refusing to mobilize with her unit in the first Gulf War.

I remember this. I remember thinking if she took the benefits of the position she then couldn't turn around and say I don't believe in doing an important part of the position.

 

[cedricandsophie]

She is way over her 15 min of fame limit. She obviously craves the attention and now gets to be a martyr. The worst thing to happen to her now would be to be ignored. So please let's start ignoring her!

 

[Maxpowers]

Like a doctor who won't perform an abortion.

It would be more like an abortion specialist refusing to do abortions to anyone due to a certain section of people being allowed to get abortions.

 

[gwynne]

I don't know why this needs to be pointed out, but obtaining a marriage license is not an invasive medical procedure. Sheesh.
Why is an invasive medical procedure being dragged into a civil license discussion?

 

[Art 1]

well, that's convenient.

Would you rather her remain a heathen all her life?

 

[mom2rtk]

I remember this. I remember thinking if she took the benefits of the position she then couldn't turn around and say I don't believe in doing an important part of the position.

Yes, that's why it reminds me of this. Of course, this story is a little different because the job changed after she took it, but regardless, I thought Dr. Huet-Vaughn deserved her punishment (and was disappointed in the clemency) and I think this clerk should resign. I was shocked at how many people in the area were supportive of Dr. Huet-Vaughn back when this happened. I thought she had no leg to stand on, just as I think this clerk has no leg to stand on.

 

[Gracie09]

Would you rather her remain a heathen all her life?

Just because someone is not a Christian they are a heathen.