Keith Olbermann

[LuvDuke]

I disagree wholeheartedly. This country has historically always had a group that it has vilified:

African americans
Chinese
Irish
Italians
Jews
Japanese
Women
Overweight
Disabled
The list goes on

Once this whole mess with equality in marriage (or, to appease those that are fixed on word usage, civil unions) is resolved, there are those out there that will find yet another group to disdain and disparage. It's the way some folks' minds work. In order to gain leverage in their own small minds, they are compelled to find someone else to focus their dislike. Many of them can see themselves in the list above.

It's much easier to relieve one's small mind by focusing your own frustrations in your own inadequacies onto those you feel are the "other."

Upon reflection, I agree with your message of hope.

 

[LakeAriel]

I disagree wholeheartedly. This country has historically always had a group that it has vilified:

African americans
Chinese
Irish
Italians
Jews
Japanese
Women
Overweight
Disabled
The list goes on

Once this whole mess with equality in marriage (or, to appease those that are fixed on word usage, civil unions) is resolved, there are those out there that will find yet another group to disdain and disparage. It's the way some folks' minds work. In order to gain leverage in their own small minds, they are compelled to find someone else to focus their dislike. Many of them can see themselves in the list above.

It's much easier to relieve one's small mind by focusing your own frustrations in your own inadequacies onto those you feel are the "other."

Sure just look to the East..at Medford, NY...A group of 7 thugs hunted down a Hispanic man and beat and killed him. For being Hispanic.

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

Not necessarily. You're making it clear here and in other posts on other threads that you feel sexuality is a choice one must make. With that logic, you've had to make a conscious effort to live your life as a heterosexual (assuming you are).

On another note, why in the world are you always posting on every single thread that deals with anything gay? You seem to be more preoccupied about homosexuality than most of the gay men from the GLBT portion of the DIS. Why is that?

 

[Charade]

How about homophobic then? You're homophobic. Does that make you feel any better?

If you say so...

 

[Tikitoi]

Keith is great! I love the way he calls bill-0 out.

 

[RickinNYC]

If you say so...

If you're not homophobic, then I apologize, however all of your many, many, many posts on the topic tell me otherwise. If you're homophobic, one should never deny it and not hide it. Be homophobic if that's your choice. We're all entitled to our opinions even if we don't agree with one another. You think that same sex marriage should never be allowed. I think you're homophobic. Not a big deal because it's just opinion, right?

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Not necessarily. You're making it clear here and in other posts on other threads that you feel sexuality is a choice one must make. With that logic, you've had to make a conscious effort to live your life as a heterosexual (assuming you are).

On another note, why in the world are you always posting on every single thread that deals with anything gay? You seem to be more preoccupied about homosexuality than most of the gay men from the GLBT portion of the DIS. Why is that?

I think this is the point in the debate where, in order to fortify his position, Tigger Woods proudly proclaims that "Yes...he has".

I respect everyone's passion on the honorable side of this one but sadly, this debate's going to go nowhere with some...

 

[LuvDuke]

Keith is great! I love the way he calls bill-0 out.

My DD actually thought O'Reilly's name was Billo-the-clown.

 

[ChrizJen]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";28672138]There have been a few threads on this and calling Californians hateful people....well this Ca. takes offense at that....answer me this do you live in a State that allows Gay marriage....most likely not since only 2 stated in the US currently recognize this as equal rights....
so maybe you should be out there working on getting it passed in your own state and leave us Californians up to ours....[/QUOTE]


I understand your frustration with this, and I think you're correct. People really should think about the things they say and to whom they're saying them. I would only like to point out one thing. Some of the things being said are not coming from a place of logic or reason. They're coming from an extremely emotional place in people who have just taken the last hit they can take. We've been knocked down and are just trying to get back up.

I think there is a lot of misdirected anger involved in this situation. We don't understand how people could possibly choose to take away/deny other people's rights. So we take that anger and confusion out on the people who actually voted. While I still question the mindset of a person who could vote to discriminate against an entire group of people, my anger is directed more towards those who made it possible to get the issue on the ballot in the first place. It should have been stopped before it even got there. That's probably the time when we should have been in the streets carrying signs. But we cannot go back now. Instead, we have to move forward.

In some ways, I feel like we should have been better prepared for this. We definitely should have fought sooner. After all, there were 25 other states in the US that made amendments to their constitutions before California, Florida and Arizona did it in this election. We probably should have stood up long ago when this was happening all over our nation. I'm not sure why it is that California has become the last straw, but I think it's safe to say that we're tired of sitting back and letting others dictate what rights we can and cannot have. We're done with waiting around for others to hand us our rights. We're now standing up together the way we should have long ago.

 

[LuvDuke]

I don't see gay rights as being a state issue at all. It is a Constitutional issue. That people even believe they have a right to decide statewise who's entitled to and who isn't entitled to Constitutional rights boggles my mind.

This is straight out of the "segregationist states rights" playbook.

 

[Charade]

If you're not homophobic, then I apologize, however all of your many, many, many posts on the topic tell me otherwise. If you're homophobic, one should never deny it and not hide it. Be homophobic if that's your choice. We're all entitled to our opinions even if we don't agree with one another. You think that same sex marriage should never be allowed. I think you're homophobic. Not a big deal because it's just opinion, right?

Homophobic is an irrational fear of homosexuals. That I do not have so there is nothing to declare, deny or hide from.

I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. I believe that a civil union is between any two (just two) adults. All the rights associated with marriage should be bestowed upon civil unions. So yes, I'm pretty much just stuck on a word. I'm pretty sure I've stated this many times over the years.

Since Obama is against gay marriage, is he a homophobe or just someone with a different opinion?

 

[Master Mason]

I'm not sure why it is that California has become the last straw, but I think it's safe to say that we're tired of sitting back and letting others dictate what rights we can and cannot have. We're done with waiting around for others to hand us our rights. We're now standing up together the way we should have long ago.

Just an observation, but it could have been because the expected outcome in what is one of the most liberal states in the country, was for it to be defeated. It polled as going down until the vote. I think it is more the shock factor than anything.

As another aside, I personally know a number of people that voted for it simply in reaction to the CA supreme court over rulling the law that had passed back in 2000.

I don't see gay rights as being a state issue at all. It is a Constitutional issue. That people even believe they have a right to decide statewise who's entitled to and who isn't entitled to Constitutional rights boggles my mind.

This is straight out of the "segregationist states rights" playbook.

The reason it is concidered a states rights issue, is Marriage is not a constitutional right, it simply isn't in there.

 

[Demosthenes]

I'm sorry, you are incorrect there, they gave plenty to the twin brother of this hateful law, Amendment 2 here in Florida.



http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/?appSession=36747947066128

That's to the SF Gate Newspaper, which has a contribution calculator put together by the AP for Prop 8. Type in "Church of Latter Day Saints" which is the offical name of the Mormon Church. It will surprise you and sicken you.

Check your facts again. The legal name of the church is actually "The corporation of the presiding bishopric of the church of Jesus christ of latter-day saints, a Utah corporation sole." Some individual members contributed, and some contributed in the name of the church, but no church funds were used. Try your search again with the proper legal name; nothing comes up. Even if it did contribute, $2,864.21 is hardly "plenty of money." The LDS church is being targeted by advocates and lawsuits because it is a cohesive unit with deep pockets.

 

[RickinNYC]

Homophobic is an irrational fear of homosexuals. That I do not have so there is nothing to declare, deny or hide from.

I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. I believe that a civil union is between any two (just two) adults. All the rights associated with marriage should be bestowed upon civil unions. So yes, I'm pretty much just stuck on a word. I'm pretty sure I've stated this many times over the years.

Since Obama is against gay marriage, is he a homophobe or just someone with a different opinion?

Actually, homophobia's definition per Merriam/Webster is: : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

Since I don't make you quiver in fear, I will concede you don't have an irrational fear of homosexuals. Now, let's chit chat about your aversion and tendency to discriminate.

As for Obama, he is against gay marriage and supports civil unions. Do you support civil unions between two men/women John? If the wording was changed, would that fit within your mindset? If so, excellent.

Since we're talking about marriage and only stating one's opinion, I think if you've been married once, that's it. So you better make sure that it's the right one. I have mixed feelings about people getting married a second, third or fourth time. Frankly, THAT is what puts the true sanctity of marriage into question.

 

[Purseval]

No no no! One of those is "Tyranny of the majority"!

So the next step is to go judge shopping and find one to put a stay on it and impose the tyranny of the minority. Has anything changed lately?

 

[OrlandoMike]

Some individual members contributed, and some contributed in the name of the church, but no church funds were used.

Down here in Florida we dont really know yet who paid for most of the political ads...

Untill Florida4Marriage comes clean, we will never know....

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/10/group-alleges-a.html

 

[Purseval]

I know! Talk about spoiled brats! How dare they be allowed to marry another human that they love and honor How dare they be allowed to have a law that treats them like the rest of the people who fall in love and want to marry

The should just deal with it.

Cry babies!

I'm glad you are finally starting to understand it. I always wanted to be a pro baseball player when I grew up, too. Sometimes you don't get your way, it happens.

 

[Master Mason]

So the next step is to go judge shopping and find one to put a stay on it and impose the tyranny of the minority. Has anything changed lately?

I'm not sure what you mean by changed lately, but currently the state is not issuing licenses to same sex couples. That stopped the very next day.

 

[crcormier]

I'm glad you are finally starting to understand it. I always wanted to be a pro baseball player when I grew up, too. Sometimes you don't get your way, it happens.

Do you favor doing away with divorce?

 

[RickinNYC]

I'm glad you are finally starting to understand it. I always wanted to be a pro baseball player when I grew up, too. Sometimes you don't get your way, it happens.

That doesn't make any sense.