Just told by member services..........

[twooley2]

oh I can relate as it is my understanding that some people would like to be able to plan last minute to add just one day not like its a whole week or something. I agree but I also know it is only as good as it is. Everything has rules and such so be it. It would be nice to see some change and appreciation of the the dedicated vacationer/DVC owner/consumers needs. Although why they already get their money. Your an instant in for them $$$$$ they get your money no matter what.

 

[disneynutz]

Seems like this problem keeps popping up at least once a week. Don't people read the POS docs sent out? It's all spelled out in easy to read English. Why not read before you buy? I have owned DVC since 1994 and it is special!!

People buying resale don't get the POS docs before they buy.

Bill

 

[Ms. WDW]

IMO part of the OP's feelings may be coming from the realization that DVC Members are not special in the eyes of Disney, contrary to what that may want you to believe.

Disney does such a great job of marketing that you really feel that you are special as you go through the sales process. They give you juice and cookies, ice cream, they play with your kids, maybe take your family picture. They tell and show you what a wonderful time that you and your family will have as a Disney family. You are now a member of the Disney Vacation Club and you get to enjoy all of the perks and privileges of membership.

After the purchase, bit by bit the real world starts setting in, and you find out that maybe you aren't as special as you thought. There is more to the process of using your membership than you were told and sometimes it can get frustrating especially when you find out that you can't get a room on points, but the general public has access to DVC rooms. You feel betrayed by Disney and you may feel like you were taken advantage of by the Mouse.

Bill

Well stated....very well stated!

 

[Deb & Bill]

People buying resale don't get the POS docs before they buy.

Bill

But they should request the information before they buy.

 

[castleri]

I guess we were lucky in the guide we got. When we bought in 1997 she very clearly spelled out that DVC was for people who could plan ahead and that yes sometimes you could get a room on short notice depending on availability etc. She also explained about the percentage of rooms that DVD holds and has available for CRO as well as how trading out to other places puts rooms into the cash inventory. She made it clear that at times it would be possible to book on cash but not points because of the two inventories. It is too bad that all guides are not as forthcoming with this information. It seems that there is a question like this every week on the boards and I agree that people need to read the documents if they get them and it is too bad the resale people don't have some info they could provide to people who are considering purchasing before they make the final decision.

 

[disneynutz]

But they should request the information before they buy.

Most buyers don't have all of the info that they should have. They expect that Disney and their Broker will take care of them and unless you are an existing owner, you don't even know what a POS is and lets face facts, even most owners don't know what the POS is or take the time to read it. Even when we do, we don't fully understand the impact on our ownership until we experience a issue.

We can argue that the buyers should know better or that they get what they deserve but the reality is we are human and we all make mistakes. I would venture a guess that the majority of buyers didn't fully understand the DVC product when we first bought and we learned along the way. I know that I did.

Bill

 

[quirty30]

What salesman for ANY product is going to tell you about all the negative aspects of it? But if I'm going to buy a car, I'm certainly going to do some independent research of my own before making a final decision. If I buy a home, I'm going to have an inspection done.

As I posted earlier, caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. If you spend thousands of dollars on DVC and don't fully understand what you are purchasing, and then later are disappointed because YOU didn't do your homework, who do you really have to blame?

 

[chalee94]

I guess we were lucky in the guide we got. When we bought in 1997 she very clearly spelled out that DVC was for people who could plan ahead and that yes sometimes you could get a room on short notice depending on availability etc. She also explained about the percentage of rooms that DVD holds and has available for CRO as well as how trading out to other places puts rooms into the cash inventory. She made it clear that at times it would be possible to book on cash but not points because of the two inventories.

she sounds like the kind of guide that walt would have been proud of.

also like the kind of guide jim lewis probably forced out in the last year or so.

 

[Lynne M]

I'm still confused by this situation myself.

If the room is unoccupied, why not let people use their points?

Garthilk, not singling you out, but since a number of people have mentioned exchanges and it still seems confusing, I'll try to explain.

Let's say that I decide to use my DVC points to stay at The Fairmont in San Francisco, through the Concierge Collection. I call up Member Services and they make a reservation for me. Cool.

Now, the Fairmont is going to be expecting payment for my stay. As part of DVC's Concierge Collection, they negotiate with DVC every year to determine what compensation, in cash, they get when a member exchanges at their hotel. DVC assigns a point value to that.

How will DVC get the cash to pay for my reservation at the Fairmont? They'll take a villa of roughly equivalent cost, and send it over to CRO to be rented out for cash. That villa is now gone from the DVC inventory. It's essentially being used by a member - me, the one who's used an exchange.

The question being asked here is, why can't that villa be given to another member who wants to book it on points? But then, where does the money come from to pay the Fairmont for my stay? Should the Disney company just give them cash out of their accounts? Why? What do they get in return for that ? It's not really an exchange, then, is it?

This isn't a matter of bad customer service, or customers being misled, or customers not being special. It is how timeshare exchanges work.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The possibility of the room sitting empty got me wondering. I've heard that trade companies such as RCI have things like last minute inventory reduced cash rooms, correct? Could DVC benefit if they still had some say over the cash rooms and could rent them out at reduced cash rates to members if they were still vacant? For example - CRO has tried to rent them but at 14 days out (or whatever date it's known it'll be very unlikely to rent) they haven't then it comes back to owners as an opportunity?

 

[Deb & Bill]

I guess we were lucky in the guide we got. When we bought in 1997 she very clearly spelled out that DVC was for people who could plan ahead and that yes sometimes you could get a room on short notice depending on availability etc. She also explained about the percentage of rooms that DVD holds and has available for CRO as well as how trading out to other places puts rooms into the cash inventory. She made it clear that at times it would be possible to book on cash but not points because of the two inventories. It is too bad that all guides are not as forthcoming with this information. It seems that there is a question like this every week on the boards and I agree that people need to read the documents if they get them and it is too bad the resale people don't have some info they could provide to people who are considering purchasing before they make the final decision.

You must have had the same guide we had in 1997 because that is exactly how our first purchase went. She thoroughly explained all the ins and out of DVC. We knew when we purchased that we needed to book as early as possible and that last minute reservation might not be available. She really respresented the term "guide" and not "timeshare salesperson".

 

[BEASLYBOO]

Even reading the small print and thinking I understood what I was buying into (DVC) there was still the learning curve that only comes from using it, asking questions to MS and consulting these boards.

DVC was going to work for me from the get go because I plan 7 to 11 months ahead. I have tried a few times to book last minute and I've been succesful a few times but then I typically don't travel during peak times!

Better luck next time, but if you feel you need to sell, so be it!

 

[debbieandroo]

Garthilk, not singling you out, but since a number of people have mentioned exchanges and it still seems confusing, I'll try to explain.

Let's say that I decide to use my DVC points to stay at The Fairmont in San Francisco, through the Concierge Collection. I call up Member Services and they make a reservation for me. Cool.

Now, the Fairmont is going to be expecting payment for my stay. As part of DVC's Concierge Collection, they negotiate with DVC every year to determine what compensation, in cash, they get when a member exchanges at their hotel. DVC assigns a point value to that.

How will DVC get the cash to pay for my reservation at the Fairmont? They'll take a villa of roughly equivalent cost, and send it over to CRO to be rented out for cash. That villa is now gone from the DVC inventory. It's essentially being used by a member - me, the one who's used an exchange.

The question being asked here is, why can't that villa be given to another member who wants to book it on points? But then, where does the money come from to pay the Fairmont for my stay? Should the Disney company just give them cash out of their accounts? Why? What do they get in return for that ? It's not really an exchange, then, is it?

This isn't a matter of bad customer service, or customers being misled, or customers not being special. It is how timeshare exchanges work.

Great explanation! Thanks to these boards and other Disney forums, I understood the general principle of cash and DVC availabilities but this really spells it out. Thanks!

 

[Dean]

People buying resale don't get the POS docs before they buy.

Bill

They often don't but they can ask for them from the seller and should be able to get them within their cancelation period, which is how it works retail as well in most cases.

Most buyers don't have all of the info that they should have. They expect that Disney and their Broker will take care of them and unless you are an existing owner, you don't even know what a POS is and lets face facts, even most owners don't know what the POS is or take the time to read it. Even when we do, we don't fully understand the impact on our ownership until we experience a issue.

We can argue that the buyers should know better or that they get what they deserve but the reality is we are human and we all make mistakes. I would venture a guess that the majority of buyers didn't fully understand the DVC product when we first bought and we learned along the way. I know that I did.

Bill

All true but somewhat irrelevant as to what a timeshares sales system's responsibilities are.

The possibility of the room sitting empty got me wondering. I've heard that trade companies such as RCI have things like last minute inventory reduced cash rooms, correct? Could DVC benefit if they still had some say over the cash rooms and could rent them out at reduced cash rates to members if they were still vacant? For example - CRO has tried to rent them but at 14 days out (or whatever date it's known it'll be very unlikely to rent) they haven't then it comes back to owners as an opportunity?

Potentially, I alluded to such a possibility in an earlier post. The problem is like any company that tend to run sales, people wait for the sales. Often having unsold inventory but a higher per item margin is a better deal for the company. Disney also uses short notice inventory for CM usage I believe.

 

[Shamus]

The question being asked here is, why can't that villa be given to another member who wants to book it on points? But then, where does the money come from to pay the Fairmont for my stay? Should the Disney company just give them cash out of their accounts? Why? What do they get in return for that ? It's not really an exchange, then, is it?

Lynne -
What you said is a good explaination of how a trade works. However, the questions you raise seem to be made on the assumption that the room WILL get rented out for cash.

What I hear the OP saying is that since the ability to complete that "Cash Rental" now appears to be in question, why not let the room go for points.

So my question to everyone is this -
Can DVC give up the Oct Night to the OP and in exchange use her points for a later open date?

If So - Does any know at what point they would typically make that move? 30 Days Out? 14 Days? 7 Days?

By taking the later date and offering it for cash DVC has in turn increased the amount of time they have to complete the "Cash Rental" to cover the cost for Lynne's Fairmont Trade.

.

 

[Chuck S]

It would make little sense for a room to continually bounce back & forth between Disney's cash reservation system and DVC point reservation system, given that such transactions would need to be tracked and logged, time is money.

 

[Sammie]

You must have had the same guide we had in 1997 because that is exactly how our first purchase went. She thoroughly explained all the ins and out of DVC. We knew when we purchased that we needed to book as early as possible and that last minute reservation might not be available. She really respresented the term "guide" and not "timeshare salesperson".

Ours too.

Something else you have to consider is that cash room that is available, there because of an exchange, or part of the inventory that is never available for points about 2-3% of the inventory, or breakage. There are multiple reasons the rooms can be available for cash when points inventory is booked. I honestly never consider it point inventory at all at that point.

And Yes some of the rooms are offered to CMs at discount at last minute bookings, also they are offered as upgrades to those staying at other resorts such as moderates to free them up, and offer someone a chance to stay at DVC in hopes they will buy in. Several have posted on the Resort forum they got offers to move to a DVC resort even BCV at a cost of $49 over the cost of their moderate room.

 

[Shamus]

It would make little sense for a room to continually bounce back & forth between Disney's cash reservation system and DVC point reservation system, given that such transactions would need to be tracked and logged, time is money.

But this already occurs for "Breakage" rooms. No?

My understanding is that at the 30 day mark (or is it 60 now?), DVC turns over unbooked rooms to CRO for cash reservations. These rooms still remain availbe for members to book on points however and DVC takes them back from CRO when that occurs.

So if "Bouncing" occurs for "Breakage Rooms", What about "Traded Rooms"?

 

[Dean]

Lynne -
What you said is a good explaination of how a trade works. However, the questions you raise seem to be made on the assumption that the room WILL get rented out for cash.

What I hear the OP saying is that since the ability to complete that "Cash Rental" now appears to be in question, why not let the room go for points.

So my question to everyone is this -
Can DVC give up the Oct Night to the OP and in exchange use her points for a later open date?

If So - Does any know at what point they would typically make that move? 30 Days Out? 14 Days? 7 Days?

By taking the later date and offering it for cash DVC has in turn increased the amount of time they have to complete the "Cash Rental" to cover the cost for Lynne's Fairmont Trade.

.

I also own Marriott and Bluegreen. Bluegreen allows unreserved inventory to be bought for cash at a rate of $59-79 per night (studio through 2 BR), min 2 nights. I suspect this would be counter productive for Disney to give such an option.

 

[vacationclub]

Lynne -
What you said is a good explaination of how a trade works. However, the questions you raise seem to be made on the assumption that the room WILL get rented out for cash.

What I hear the OP saying is that since the ability to complete that "Cash Rental" now appears to be in question, why not let the room go for points.
.

Why is it in question? Of course it can't go for points, because that means they are giving the room away for free. They need to get money for that room to make up for the money they used to pay for the rooms owner's other vacation. It's not in their best interest to take it off the market early....they might as well leave it available right up until the last minute because they need to make money from it.

So my question to everyone is this -
Can DVC give up the Oct Night to the OP and in exchange use her points for a later open date?

If So - Does any know at what point they would typically make that move? 30 Days Out? 14 Days? 7 Days?

By taking the later date and offering it for cash DVC has in turn increased the amount of time they have to complete the "Cash Rental" to cover the cost for Lynne's Fairmont Trade.

.

But they lost a date on the calander to make money on that room that they can never get back. They are still basically giving a room away for free that night that they could have potentially made money for.