just curious dont want this to get out of control bathroom use

[Moliphino]

At what point do we stop requiring women to give up their space in order to make others more comfortable?

Drag queens or not fully transitioned trans people probably would not be comfortable in a men's locker room. Do women need to subject themselves to naked men in their locker room in order for this marginalized group to feel more comfortable? Sometimes young girls change in the locker rooms with their moms, are we supposed to feel ok with men being naked in front of children? Who has the right to feel comfortable, should a small percentage of the population dictate how the rest of the affected population gets to live? Some here would say yes based on the more recent replies. There does not seem to be a line that cannot be crossed into unacceptable territory at this point.



This is really well articulated.

As a woman, I don't even want to be around naked women in a locker room.

 

[Living42Day]

As a woman, I don't even want to be around naked women in a locker room.

Same! That is why I try to opt for using bathroom stalls to get changed in.

 

[tony67]

As a woman, I don't even want to be around naked women in a locker room.

yeah - honestly as a man there is nothing worse than the old guy walking around with nothing on and wanting to have a conversation. Its pretty common in gyms and kind of odd.

 

[BrianL]

yeah - honestly as a man there is nothing worse than the old guy walking around with nothing on and wanting to have a conversation. Its pretty common in gyms and kind of odd.

In my experience, in the US guys tend to get changed in the locker room as quickly as possible. I mean, sure you might see some stuff -it's fine. The first time I visited overseas (Iceland), I went to the lagoon and, man, they guys were in the locker room, just hanging out - and I do mean hanging out - chit-chatting, etc. One dude was just full-on Captain Morgan-ing it on a bench. I mean, whatever - we've all seen it, but still!

 

[tony67]

In my experience, in the US guys tend to get changed in teh locker room as quickly as possible. I mean, sure you might see some stuff -it's fine. The first time I visited overseas (Iceland), I went to the lagoon and, man, they guys were in the locker room, just hanging out - and I do mean hanging out - chit-chatting, etc. One dude was just full-on Captain Morgan-ing it on a bench. I mean, whatever - we've all seen it, but still!

Yeah in gyms here (not in school - but health clubs) it seems like there is always that one old guy. They are talking to you or the group and they put their leg up on the bench. Why IDK

Europe - well that is a whole different world - saunas are coed for the most part in Germany from what I recall and you cant wear clothes at all - a towel or robe yeah Interesting that is not a problem there.

 

[Moliphino]

Same! That is why I try to opt for using bathroom stalls to get changed in.

In middle and high school I would always change in a shower stall because they had curtains. I don't go to gyms now, so I avoid it that way.

 

[JLTraveling]

At what point do we stop requiring women to give up their space in order to make others more comfortable?

Drag queens or not fully transitioned trans people probably would not be comfortable in a men's locker room. Do women need to subject themselves to naked men in their locker room in order for this marginalized group to feel more comfortable? Sometimes young girls change in the locker rooms with their moms, are we supposed to feel ok with men being naked in front of children? Who has the right to feel comfortable, should a small percentage of the population dictate how the rest of the affected population gets to live? Some here would say yes based on the more recent replies. There does not seem to be a line that cannot be crossed into unacceptable territory at this point.



This is really well articulated.

I think that we need to stop referring to drag queens as men, for starters. When they're in drag, the correct pronouns are she/her. And they go to extreme lengths to not present as male in any way. First, the locker room fears are ludicrous, because no drag queen is going to work out in full drag. If they go to the gym, it's as a man, in typical male presenting attire, and use the men's locker room.

But if for some unfathomable reason you happened to see what's going on under a drag queen's dress, you're not going to see male bits hanging out. You'll see a collection of the most utilitarian granny undergarments imaginable. Everything is packed away and taped and put away more heavily than you would even know is possible.

 

[sam_gordon]

According to the UN- globally, an estimated 736 million women—almost one in three—have been subjected to physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older). This figure does not include sexual harassment. It does not include voyeurism. It does not include technology-facilitated violence. There are no statistics specifically for bathroom incidents (that I could find) for women or men or transgender individuals or drag queens.

Women are generally smaller than men. They are weaker than men. They are more vulnerable. That is just a fact.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but here goes...

I don't deny any of what you said. However if you REALLY want to "keep women safe" from all that, then they should never be alone with men. Period. Yes, I get that's extreme. But if you want to label all men as "potential attackers", and that's what it sounds like you're trying to do, let's really keep women safe!

I agree there should not be gaps where people can easily see into stalls. And stalls should be extended to go lower and higher to prevent people from looking under/over. ASSUMING that is done, I still don't see the problem with unisex bathrooms. The stalls would be the "private" area and the sink/entry area would be more "public". In theory, everyone would be as safe in the "public" area as any other public area.

And, as others have said, if someone is acting "squirrelly", regardless of gender, report them.

 

[leahgoogle]

I think that we need to stop referring to drag queens as men, for starters. When they're in drag, the correct pronouns are she/her. And they go to extreme lengths to not present as male in any way. First, the locker room fears are ludicrous, because no drag queen is going to work out in full drag. If they go to the gym, it's as a man, in typical male presenting attire, and use the men's locker room.

But if for some unfathomable reason you happened to see what's going on under a drag queen's dress, you're not going to see male bits hanging out. You'll see a collection of the most utilitarian granny undergarments imaginable. Everything is packed away and taped and put away more heavily than you would even know is possible.

Ok, I'll bite. Drag queens are, in fact, men dressed as women. Just because they look like women, does not mean they are women. And, as you stated above, at other times in their lives, they live as men. I'm not talking about the men transitioning into women (that's another topic). I am talking about men who live their lives as men and sometimes dress in drag for shows.

 

[leahgoogle]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but here goes...

I don't deny any of what you said. However if you REALLY want to "keep women safe" from all that, then they should never be alone with men. Period. Yes, I get that's extreme. But if you want to label all men as "potential attackers", and that's what it sounds like you're trying to do, let's really keep women safe!

I agree there should not be gaps where people can easily see into stalls. And stalls should be extended to go lower and higher to prevent people from looking under/over. ASSUMING that is done, I still don't see the problem with unisex bathrooms. The stalls would be the "private" area and the sink/entry area would be more "public". In theory, everyone would be as safe in the "public" area as any other public area.

And, as others have said, if someone is acting "squirrelly", regardless of gender, report them.

That's because you are a man....lol. I don't label all men as potential attackers, but I am much more likely to get attacked by a man.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's because you are a man....lol. I don't label all men as potential attackers, but I am much more likely to get attacked by a man.

And I get that. So you if you want to be safe, avoid ALL men.

 

[leahgoogle]

And I get that. So you if you want to be safe, avoid ALL men.

I would prefer to while in a bathroom

 

[starlite_]

Guys guys! Today I went outside and saw.. a man! A man!! In public!!! The audacity !!!! Obviously I reported him to the Women Protection authorities and he was dragged away in chains. The streets are safe again.

 

[Living42Day]

Guys guys! Today I went outside and saw.. a man! A man!! In public!!! The audacity !!!! Obviously I reported him to the Women Protection authorities and he was dragged away in chains. The streets are safe again.

Neat!

And, as others have said, if someone is acting "squirrelly", regardless of gender, report them.

Report to whom? The police? The police cannot do anything if men can be in the women's restroom. One persons peep could be another persons accidental glance in between the stall gaps. He said/she said. Now if a man was in a women's restroom being weird and was not under normal circumstances allowed to be there, then that will give a bit more weight to the woman reporting it.

 

[Living42Day]

I think that we need to stop referring to drag queens as men, for starters. When they're in drag, the correct pronouns are she/her. And they go to extreme lengths to not present as male in any way. First, the locker room fears are ludicrous, because no drag queen is going to work out in full drag. If they go to the gym, it's as a man, in typical male presenting attire, and use the men's locker room.

But if for some unfathomable reason you happened to see what's going on under a drag queen's dress, you're not going to see male bits hanging out. You'll see a collection of the most utilitarian granny undergarments imaginable. Everything is packed away and taped and put away more heavily than you would even know is possible.

Except for when this happens... I agree with you, pretty unfathomable.

https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/...mens-locker-room-at-swim-meet-ex-swimmer-says

"We did not give our consent, they did not ask for our consent, but in that locker room, we turn around and there's a 6'4" biological man dropping his pants and watching us undress, and we're exposed to male genitalia," Gaines said.

 

[JLTraveling]

Ok, I'll bite. Drag queens are, in fact, men dressed as women. Just because they look like women, does not mean they are women. And, as you stated above, at other times in their lives, they live as men. I'm not talking about the men transitioning into women (that's another topic). I am talking about men who live their lives as men and sometimes dress in drag for shows.

And what exactly does any of this have to do with their safety in a bathroom WHILE in drag???

 

[sam_gordon]

Neat!


Report to whom? The police? The police cannot do anything if men can be in the women's restroom. One persons peep could be another persons accidental glance in between the stall gaps. He said/she said. Now if a man was in a women's restroom being weird and was not under normal circumstances allowed to be there, then that will give a bit more weight to the woman reporting it.

Did you miss the part where I said change the stalls so there are no gaps?

I do think in the next 10-15 years, there's going to be more of a movement to Unisex bathrooms... again, the stalls being private, with the sink area public.

 

[starlite_]

Neat!


Report to whom? The police? The police cannot do anything if men can be in the women's restroom. One persons peep could be another persons accidental glance in between the stall gaps. He said/she said. Now if a man was in a women's restroom being weird and was not under normal circumstances allowed to be there, then that will give a bit more weight to the woman reporting it.

I ask, once again. Who here is saying men should be allowed free access of women's bathrooms???

 

[leahgoogle]

And what exactly does any of this have to do with their safety in a bathroom WHILE in drag???

You brought up the drag pronoun thing, not me. I guess you should explain why that matters.

 

[Living42Day]

I ask, once again. Who here is saying men should be allowed free access of women's bathrooms???

Come on, just read the last few pages of this thread. There have been several in favor of it.

I do not have time to go through and quote all of them but these two were easy to find:

I wouldn't have any problem with a male in the restroom next to me.

If I saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man enter a female bathroom, I'd take a look at the situation. If he's dressed in drag, I wouldn't give it a second thought.